Back 5

at some point we need to stop finding excuses

our team on paper under performs

we go 5 days defending halves , because they have no platform and expect the back 5 to bash us out of the corners

our kicking game protects the the back 5 by buying them time and space by pressuring there kicking game platform, whatever segment we want to break it into. the symptoms of not having the tools, discipline, ability whatever

forwards, game managers, kicking a good decisions lay platform, everyone happy. Back 5 look like king kong suddenly. we cant retain them due to cap issues. footy
 
I personally think it’s our biggest problem at current

Backs (with 0 confidence as they run, zero footwork and zero urgency) start us off slow in our end, make no metres

—> forwards easily set upon, receiving ball flat-footed with no momentum against energetic defencive line keen to trap us in our end

—> No go forward = No backline plays/quality early ball for backs

It’s a cycle that involves both the forwards and backs, although I think the backs don’t get enough blame. Parker/trbo are the only ones that run with any aggression or urgency

If our backs started running hard towards spaces between opposition forwards, and lunged to the ground to quickly play the ball, maybe croker could take more opportunities, and our forwards could do their thing better against a disrupted/unstructured defencive line
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Smokin Joe said:
Tom Trbojevic
Jonah Lomu
Jamie Lyon
Steve Matai
Jonah Lomu
Andrew Johns
Andrew Johns
Mark Carroll
Cam Smith
Mark Carroll
Olakau'atu
Schuster
Ben Kennedy

done....problem solved,you're welcome...
Click to expand...
Good idea, Smokin - now you've got me thinking..........

Wombat
Wombat
Wombat
Wombat
Wombat
Bozo
Bozo
Reilly
Igor
Igor
Carroll
Thrower
Carroll

Bench
Ian Martin
Les Boyd
Beaver
Beaver

You're welcome 😎

PS - to top it off - Rex is commentating. Absolute gold. It would be a fast and explosive game.
 
Brisbane Tragic said:
he needs to bring it back with pace..... but not sure how he or Harper solve the issue of getting bashed at the ad line... they are just not solid enough and robust enough to take the hit and move forward/fall forward they are always being driven sideways or backwards... part of it comes from the forwards and others laying a better platform so that we are not being bombed on our own line but if you compare their carries to Parker and Garrick - they are chalk and cheese. Parker and Garrick take the ball into the line at pace and have a running style and body type to always always make metres. They rarely get stopped at the play the ball line... they at worst make a couple of metres but generally make it a very decent carry even off our line. Harper and Saab get ragdolled every tackle - just watch and see if they make their 10 metres or even 5 metres over the ad line every carry.... just about never. they get stopped for sero metres,,, the play the ball is slow because they were ragdolled and have tacklers peeling off and therefore the third runner's job is so much harder on the back of the first two rucks that went nowhere.
Click to expand...
Harper will never have that hit-up that sends fear into defenders, so far we haven't seen Harpers trademark footwork when confronted by 2 or three defenders. He just needs to do what he was doing in 21, a good step and swerve resulting in partial slice throughs.
 
Brisbane Tragic said:
he needs to bring it back with pace..... but not sure how he or Harper solve the issue of getting bashed at the ad line... they are just not solid enough and robust enough to take the hit and move forward/fall forward they are always being driven sideways or backwards... part of it comes from the forwards and others laying a better platform so that we are not being bombed on our own line but if you compare their carries to Parker and Garrick - they are chalk and cheese. Parker and Garrick take the ball into the line at pace and have a running style and body type to always always make metres. They rarely get stopped at the play the ball line... they at worst make a couple of metres but generally make it a very decent carry even off our line. Harper and Saab get ragdolled every tackle - just watch and see if they make their 10 metres or even 5 metres over the ad line every carry.... just about never. they get stopped for sero metres,,, the play the ball is slow because they were ragdolled and have tacklers peeling off and therefore the third runner's job is so much harder on the back of the first two rucks that went nowhere.
Click to expand...
Agree...it's all pretty self evident to all. We've had 2 tough games now, it's a step down in class against the Dogs. Their are no easy games anymore, you have to earn it, and to release Tom the work has to be done up front. And this I believe will happen come Sunday evening.
 
Love to see a stat on where the Panthers and Roosters were finishing their sets. If you let good teams constantly kick from inside your half, your back 5 are always gonna struggle to make yardage. I feel this is a flow on effect from turnovers, penalties/six agains and not being able to apply defensive pressure when we actually get down their end.
 
Us
maxta said:
While on this topic, it brings up an area that really pi##es me off and in fact shows a key difference between Manly and those "top teams"
If you watch the hapless Saab or Harper getting driven back in a 3-4 man gang tackle- the Manly players watch and just casually wander back to position...
Against Melbourne, South's, Penrith and Roosters there were moments after a Manly kick and the opposition backs like Taffe, Stains, Tupou we're ambushed and snookered into a corner and hit in good contact and start getting driven backwards and all their mates rush in, getting in behind the player getting driven and don't allow their mate to get crushed, intimidated and show the intent "we are 1 and won't allow you to physically and mentally crush our team mate....and this would also help big time on that next Manly player's carry, as the defence only builds in hostility after being allowed to demoralise those blokes and are like rabid dogs feeding as they like while our team watches on...
It may seem a small thing, but it is exactly the type of issues Manly need to compete with better in these type of games and shows a difference in attitude between "us and them"
Click to expand...
usually Foran is the only one trying to help...that’s why he is so important to this side. He is the only player I see consistently doing all the 1%ers.
 
Will on the hill. said:
Love to see a stat on where the Panthers and Roosters were finishing their sets. If you let good teams constantly kick from inside your half, your back 5 are always gonna struggle to make yardage. I feel this is a flow on effect from turnovers, penalties/six agains and not being able to apply defensive pressure when we actually get down their end.
Click to expand...

Agree.


Although I can also never be convinced that a side with 40% possession should be kicking the ball away consistently on the 3rd tackle.

Maybe Cherry just loves to see the boys tackle, and tackle, and tackle.
 
Worst 2 centres in the competition. They get caught out every week and Turbo cops the blame. WE will not be contenders without 2 quality centres who can both attack and defend.
 
Snake said:
Us

usually Foran is the only one trying to help...that’s why he is so important to this side. He is the only player I see consistently doing all the 1%ers.
Click to expand...
Also, Foran is always on hand with that last gasp tackle stopping a potential build up to a try being scored. Certainly is a strange set of circumstances to have Schuster constantly side lined with injury, while Foran has been going about his business relatively injury free...
 
Not sure if it helps but snake back at training with the team again

I am sure his presence helps
 
I reckon DES could find a place for Vunivalu. I thought he'd end up back at storm, bit surprised the Bunnies are currently favourites to bring him in.
 
Last year we actually had some success shifting the ball all the way across from right to left, catching teams out that didn’t move up in a line.

We would quite often make good yards getting on the outside of other teams in those early tackles.

It also led to some amazing long range breaks and even tries.

The only problem is that good teams DO move up in a line. Especially in the first half when they are fit and fresh.
 
Lyonstomenzies said:
Last year we actually had some success shifting the ball all the way across from right to left, catching teams out that didn’t move up in a line.

We would quite often make good yards getting on the outside of other teams in those early tackles.

It also led to some amazing long range breaks and even tries.

The only problem is that good teams DO move up in a line. Especially in the first half when they are fit and fresh.
Click to expand...
We haven’t won the yardage battle to get teams on the back foot to spread the ball. We have been slowed down too much to create any attacking raid.
Will be interesting to watch tonight if we can speed the play the ball up and win the ruck. We will play well off that back of that
 
Lyonstomenzies said:
Last year we actually had some success shifting the ball all the way across from right to left, catching teams out that didn’t move up in a line.

We would quite often make good yards getting on the outside of other teams in those early tackles.

It also led to some amazing long range breaks and even tries.

The only problem is that good teams DO move up in a line. Especially in the first half when they are fit and fresh.
Click to expand...
Towards the backend of last season team's started to slide defence against us which shut down a lot of those sweeping backline moves ,
 
Forwards win games, the backs determine by how much.
It's been this way since 1908....even allowing for the VLandysball era
 
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