Aust v England - it was a try IMHO

[bob dylan]

So you are happy if that try is awarded against Manly and we lose a Grand Final?

Fair enough.

No Bob, just my phrasing was incorrect.

No try any day of the week (even if that was Snake in the last minute of a GF, I'd still call it a no try!).

Wasn't referring to your post, just the title of the thread/

Cheers

 

[COMMANDER]

Seriously, to know that there are some among us who believe this was a try confirms how screwed up rugby league has become.

This

 

[niccipops]

With all the replays it seemed they were looking for a reason to award an accidental try. Even the big Pom wasn't claiming anything but the replays were stirring up the crowd.
I tell you what, I reckon he'd go alright at Manly that big bloke.

 

[StuBoot]

With all the replays it seemed they were looking for a reason to award an accidental try. Even the big Pom wasn't claiming anything but the replays were stirring up the crowd.
I tell you what, I reckon he'd go alright at Manly that big bloke.

Yep, I didn't see any players or anyone in the crowd go up for the "try".

 

[Gib the Pom]

As a pom, I'm more disapointed that England didn't see the game out from half-time where I thought we were comfortable. Although I am not surprised because our coach is a joke and that is emphasised by some shocking selections in the team. Then to invite you men on to us for a full half of football ws suicidal and in the end it cost us.

Why an Australian ref with an Australian video ref were officiating an Australian match in Australia is beyond me, especially when a kiwi was reffing the kiwis the day before? Surely a swap would have been logical. And I say this not because I am bitter, but because I'd like to see international rugby league grow especially after a successful World Cup, and things like this make it a bit of a joke.

With regards to the last minute no-try, first of all I have seen similar efforts being given fairly regularly in the NRL, I remember one in particular scored by a Storm winger, can't think who, Duffie maybe? Where it was one finger put down. Also for me Jennings had at best 'finger-tip control' for his put down, so regardless of how many finger tips they had that was sufficient downard pressure. For those posters saying this shouldn't even be considered a try and anyone who does is daft, I don't see any reason why that is the case. There is a clear image of the player with a part of his hand on the ball which is touching the ground.

Those who say 'the ball was rising' whether it was or it wasn't, it was still touching the ground when he had his finger on it. There was no space under the ball on the image. For those who bring in any claims of 'accidental' or 'intention' that element is irrelevant. You can ground a ball with your forearm, but nobody actually intends to do that? They always go at it with their hand? So intention is irrelvant.

IMHO I think the reality is that Hall was extremely fortunate and had no idea where the ball was and contact with it was a total fluke hence why he didn't celebrate, however he made contact with the ball on the ground, and there is no rule requiring intention, nor is there one saying you must have a certain amount of body parts touching it, so no reason to disallow, other than there is no way Australia could be knocked out the four nations by us Poms by such a fluke 😉

 

[HoldenV8]

I have some Pommy friends and even they thought that Hall got no downward pressure on it.

As much as I think he's going senile, I have to agree with Tim Sheens. Ryan Hall at no stage tried to claim it as a try, he thought he'd knocked it dead. And for someone who's scored as many tries as he has in his career that's a pretty clear indicator for me that he didn't score it.

And as Andrew Voss came out and said on Twitter......they sent it upstairs to see who knocked it dead, not to see if Hall had scored.

 

[Ralphie]

As a pom, I'm more disapointed that England didn't see the game out from half-time where I thought we were comfortable. Although I am not surprised because our coach is a joke and that is emphasised by some shocking selections in the team. Then to invite you men on to us for a full half of football ws suicidal and in the end it cost us.

Why an Australian ref with an Australian video ref were officiating an Australian match in Australia is beyond me, especially when a kiwi was reffing the kiwis the day before? Spurely a swap would have been logical. And I say this not because I am bitter, but because I'd like to see international rugby league grow especially after a successful World Cup, and things like this make it a bit of a joke.

With regards to the last minute no-try, first of all I have seen similar efforts being given fairly regularly in the NRL, I remember one in particular scored by a Storm winger, can't think who, Duffie maybe? Where it was one finger put down. Also for me Jennings had at best 'finger-tip control' for his put down, so regardless of how many finger tips they had that was sufficient downard pressure. For those posters saying this shouldn't even be considered a try and anyone who does is daft, I don't see any reason why that is the case. There is a clear image of the player with a part of his hand on the ball which is touching the ground.

Those who say 'the ball was rising' whether it was or it wasn't, it was still touching the ground when he had his finger on it. There was no space under the ball on the image. For those who bring in any claims of 'accidental' or 'intention' that element is irrelevant. You can ground a ball with your forearm, but nobody actually intends to do that? They always go at it with their hand? So intention is irrelvant.

IMHO I think the reality is that Hall was extremely fortunate and had no idea where the ball was and contact with it was a total fluke hence why he didn't celebrate, however he made contact with the ball on the ground, and there is no rule requiring intention, nor is there one saying you must have a certain amount of body parts touching it, so no reason to disallow, other than there is no way Australia could be knocked out the four nations by us Poms by such a fluke 😉

The day that is awarded as a try is the day I will support a rule change so that it isn't in the future

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

No doubt it went upstairs to see who'd knocked it dead and they then said " hang on this could be a try". Whilst it would been historic for the Poms to knock us out of the comp it would have been a travesty if it was from that being awarded a try.

 

[The Who]

As a pom, I'm more disapointed that England didn't see the game out ....

You are correct on one point; it should have been a neutral ref.
In reality, this is the weakest Australian Test team in living memory. I understand that there are 23 potential team members unavailable for selection, and 10 who would be in the 17. When you take out matchwinning backs like JT, Slater, Hayne, and the Morris twins, plus tough forwards such as Myles, Gallen and Scott, you should be thankful because a full strength Australian side would have won by 20 points.

 

[bob dylan]

I always thought the referee was neutral.

......Oh wait a minute, Shane Hayne 2013 Grand Final, scrap that original thought.

 

[Kevinward777]

It was just a misplaced pinkie finger that happened to brush the steeden.

 

[Frank]

Forgetting the rule book for a moment. Based on what I've seen in the NRL over the last couple of years that was a try every day of the week. I thought it laughable that the ref said he made contact with the ball on its way up.

Along with the number of interchanges, slow motion replays are killing this game.

 

[mozgrame]

I have severe, conflicting emotions about this footage. It's like watching your Mother in law about to reverse off a cliff in your new car.

 

[double hoops]

Piss the video ref off. If at full speed it didn't look like a try. Its not a try. I'd much prefer the cheering and bitching about the ref mistake or no mistake then to watch 22 replays and still have no confidence in that the man in the box will do. Who remembers when your team cross the line, the ref would put his whistle in his mouth and point to the spot. These days, by the time all the replays have finished, excited is the last word that comes to mind. It's more of a celebration, 'Thank f8 the replays stopped'.

I could handle a captain's challenge like in the under 20's. 1 challege, chance to go to the video ref each half. Thats it. What it seems to achieve is players sorting it out on the field. Your not going to tell your captain to review a decision if you think you knocked on. Any rule change that pisses the video ref off out of the game is a great thing. The End.

 

[Gib the Pom]

As a pom, I'm more disapointed that England didn't see the game out ....

You are correct on one point; it should have been a neutral ref.
In reality, this is the weakest Australian Test team in living memory. I understand that there are 23 potential team members unavailable for selection, and 10 who would be in the 17. When you take out matchwinning backs like JT, Slater, Hayne, and the Morris twins, plus tough forwards such as Myles, Gallen and Scott, you should be thankful because a full strength Australian side would have won by 20 points.

And don't think we don't know it. I'm not sure how much you guys in Aus get in terms of coverage of Super League or England Internationally, or whether you're even interested in it. I wouldn't blame you if you weren't, but we hear a lot of the people in the media constantly talking about 'closing the gap between ourselves and yourselves'. Mate, that is not going to happen in my lifetime. Yes sometime in that period we may beat you a handful of times, but on a whole we are and will be a million miles behind you.

Whilst I do think that we have some quality players in the side that would be and are big successes in the NRL; Widdop, Graham, Burgess boys, others who would do very well are the likes of Hall, Watkins and Roby, and when we are in a position like were at halftime when you are at your weakest for a long time, I am dissapointed we couldn't see the game out in the second half. But for me the reason we won't ever catch-up or learn how to be a better is down to three things;
1) The fact RL is the second(?) biggest sport in Aus, where as its a somewhat minority sport in England with with football, people want to grow up to be the next David Beckham, not the next Andrew Johns.

2) Coaching is shocking, most of them are tactically and fundamentally inept compared to the smarts of the NRL coaches (Hence why you have had so many assistant coaches come over here and win the comp) and we have some very talented players that won't be taken to that next level because of it.

3) Tempo. NRL is played at such a faster pace, when it comes to competing for the full 80 against you men, we cannot do it. And because of the aformentioned points, its unlikely this tempo will increase.

Don't worry my friend, we are under no illusions of what would/should happen if you were at full strength. Watched it too many times before.

---

As a pom, I'm more disapointed that England didn't see the game out from half-time where I thought we were comfortable. Although I am not surprised because our coach is a joke and that is emphasised by some shocking selections in the team. Then to invite you men on to us for a full half of football ws suicidal and in the end it cost us.

Why an Australian ref with an Australian video ref were officiating an Australian match in Australia is beyond me, especially when a kiwi was reffing the kiwis the day before? Spurely a swap would have been logical. And I say this not because I am bitter, but because I'd like to see international rugby league grow especially after a successful World Cup, and things like this make it a bit of a joke.

With regards to the last minute no-try, first of all I have seen similar efforts being given fairly regularly in the NRL, I remember one in particular scored by a Storm winger, can't think who, Duffie maybe? Where it was one finger put down. Also for me Jennings had at best 'finger-tip control' for his put down, so regardless of how many finger tips they had that was sufficient downard pressure. For those posters saying this shouldn't even be considered a try and anyone who does is daft, I don't see any reason why that is the case. There is a clear image of the player with a part of his hand on the ball which is touching the ground.

Those who say 'the ball was rising' whether it was or it wasn't, it was still touching the ground when he had his finger on it. There was no space under the ball on the image. For those who bring in any claims of 'accidental' or 'intention' that element is irrelevant. You can ground a ball with your forearm, but nobody actually intends to do that? They always go at it with their hand? So intention is irrelvant.

IMHO I think the reality is that Hall was extremely fortunate and had no idea where the ball was and contact with it was a total fluke hence why he didn't celebrate, however he made contact with the ball on the ground, and there is no rule requiring intention, nor is there one saying you must have a certain amount of body parts touching it, so no reason to disallow, other than there is no way Australia could be knocked out the four nations by us Poms by such a fluke 😉

The day that is awarded as a try is the day I will support a rule change so that it isn't in the future

But we do see this kind of try given on a fairly regular basis in the NRL... I think all we want is consistency from club competition rules to international rules. Either you disallow them all, or give them all. Could we all say with certainty that 10/10 times across NRL matches of all levels of importance and through to internationals that this kind of try would be disallowed? Going off some of the efforts I have seen given, I definitely couldn't. And that is the problem, nobody knows the bleeding rules anymore!!!

 

[Daddycool08]

With regard to the NRL and the proposed 'bunker system' which I applaud by the way.

We will have a group of referees watching every week's games and ruling on each as a team.

This should reduce the inconsistency of refereeing mistakes. Not totally but at least by a considerable measure.

 

[EagleFromMay1967]

. . . . . . . Going off some of the efforts I have seen given, I definitely couldn't. And that is the problem, nobody knows the bleeding rules anymore!!!

"The Rules" are whatever 'speeds the game up' - for the sake of a more entertaining Television product.
There almost is no game anymore, its hanging on by a thread anyway . . . . : It is A PRODUCT for Fox/Nein coverage.
As a 'rugby code' it is almost unrecogniseable as to what it was in 1978. or even '88. It has changed MUCH FASTER than the sport watching audience, and there is only one needed driver of this: Television sponsorship, influence and now "CONTROL" 😡

 

[The Who]

So if the game is all about "being faster' how come we allow the video ref to bring it to a halt so many times, and for so long?

 

[EagleFromMay1967]

So if the game is all about "being faster' how come we allow the video ref to bring it to a halt so many times, and for so long?

Well spotted.
I should have said: 'speeds the game up' OR for the sake of a more entertaining Television product.