Attributing blame

[Snake]

One has to understand the mechanics of the game in order to fairly attribute blame when a loss occurs. Tossing up names like Garrick, Elliott, Taupau, and co. Is unfair.

Everything bad happening at the moment is entirely down to the halves. It sucks to have to say it because they are trying but one doesn’t have the ability to be the dominant half and the other is a rookie.

If you aren’t turning the opposition around with effective kicks, the forwards tire and struggle. The small backs then ruck it out against a fresh opposition pack and look ineffective. Mistakes creep in due to fatigue (see Elliott for example). Guys like Garrick get rag dolled and the backs are cramped for space.

The team then starts playing sideways because there is no space around the ruck because the opposition is winning it due to having more energy...so they push passes and go sideways out of frustration.

If we had DCE’s kicking game and direction the last two weeks, we win.

So let’s not bash the collateral damage when it’s down to ineffective halves. Outside of Jorge’s reserve grade standard play-the-balls, everything is a byproduct of poor kicking and direction.

 

[Ryan]

I think Elgey and Cust are doing well all things considered. Okay, kicking games could be better. But the opposition has started putting pressure on them, because we play flat in attack.

It's 17 players In a team. There are forwards dropping balls at pivotal moments (when we are up by 12-0 for example) that are just as important.

Cust is a bright spot. Elgey just needs some consistency around him.

 

[Mitch]

One has to understand the mechanics of the game in order to fairly attribute blame when a loss occurs. Tossing up names like Garrick, Elliott, Taupau, and co. Is unfair.

Everything bad happening at the moment is entirely down to the halves. It sucks to have to say it because they are trying but one doesn’t have the ability to be the dominant half and the other is a rookie.

If you aren’t turning the opposition around with effective kicks, the forwards tire and struggle. The small backs then ruck it out against a fresh opposition pack and look ineffective. Mistakes creep in due to fatigue (see Elliott for example). Guys like Garrick get rag dolled and the backs are cramped for space.

The team then starts playing sideways because there is no space around the ruck because the opposition is winning it due to having more energy...so they push passes and go sideways out of frustration.

If we had DCE’s kicking game and direction the last two weeks, we win.

So let’s not bash the collateral damage when it’s down to ineffective halves. Outside of Jorge’s reserve grade standard play-the-balls, everything is a byproduct of poor kicking and direction.

Completely agree with this. Whilst I thought the initial energy from our forwards last night wasn't great it improved significantly as the game went on - The team wasn't provided any sort of direction from our halves which is what we needed. Where DCE (obviously a class above) would direct the team around on those initial plays in a set to get to the point he wants to on play 4, 5, and 6, they looked lost last night. It really just shows how much we miss Daly.

This

 

[Sheikheagle]

I think Elgey and Cust are doing well all things considered. Okay, kicking games could be better. But the opposition has started putting pressure on them, because we play flat in attack.

It's 17 players In a team. There are forwards dropping balls at pivotal moments (when we are up by 12-0 for example) that are just as important.

Cust is a bright spot. Elgey just needs some consistency around him.

I don’t get you Ryan, you bag a player like Boyle that is a rookie that plays 10 minutes a game and then on the other hand you continue to defend LG who has 4 years experience that continues to under perform in a big way. Boyle wouldn’t be on much more than $150K whilst LG would be on $400k+.

 

[anthonyb1965]

I think Elgey and Cust are doing well all things considered. Okay, kicking games could be better. But the opposition has started putting pressure on them, because we play flat in attack.

It's 17 players In a team. There are forwards dropping balls at pivotal moments (when we are up by 12-0 for example) that are just as important.

Cust is a bright spot. Elgey just needs some consistency around him.

We can always recover with consistent quality attack and this is what is letting us down. Forwards dropping the pill happens in every team and every week.

Unfortunately I don’t think Elgey will make the cut whether that is a lack of confidence or ability or a mixture of both. His kicking and passing was very poor last night and we are yet to see his “best”.

Cust has ticked a few boxes already for Des and while his play was ordinary at times last night he had some great moments mixed in. Des thinks he is “versatile” and I think that means it will be Croker then Cust in partnering DCE.

What is as equally concerning is Api and his service out of dummy half. Apart from his defence and darting runs, his passing has not improved and is even more noticeable when Fainu comes on and starts drilling them.

 

[mickqld]

Would've won the game if we hadn't stupidly refused to kick 2 easy penalty goals in the 1st half. AND the message from the coach was to kick them. So WHO decided otherwise ???

 

[The Who]

Our best chance of a win last night was to dominate in the forwards. It's obvious that was the game plan because all our reserves were forwards.
Yet we left our biggest forward off the field for 65 minutes, and another potential impact forward on the bench all night.

 

[Kez]

Elgey is useless and weak he has had enough time in nrl plays no better than Cust who is a rookie
Crocker or Cust should be partnering DCE when he is back,
Lastnight came down to lack of enthusiasm and the dreaded flatfeet with a dash of errors
Things will be much better when we are at full strength
A few changes in certain areas and we will be fine
I am still optimistic for a top 8 finish
From what i have seen this is who we need on the field,and hopefully by round 16

Trbojevic
Suli
Walker
Parker
Garrick
Crocker/Cust
Dce
Afb
Fainu
Waddell
Thompson
Sironen
Trbojevic
Koroisau
Taupau
Boyle/Paseka
Gosiewski

We need to split up Afb and Taupau,as soon as they go off we struggle
Im not a big fan of Boyle or Paseka but with Sipley out we dont have much choice

 

[Woodsie]

Our forwards were again treated with total disrespect by debutants last night .... for the second week in a row we were out-muscled and out-enthused by a pack that played like a pack ... until our forwards especially .... Marty I can lift 300kgs but can't knock a fowl off a farmyard fence Kapow ... play with some aggression and mongrel and teamwork ... we will continue to get dominated in the ruck ...

Individuals were all having a go ... but it is not a game for individuals .... Fix this before talking to me about our halves ...

 

[Smokin Joe]

We lost the point of contact from the first tackle and did not really change all night, Cust looked dangerous and the panthers have weaknesses,but they bashed us all night.Hard to have a good kicking game when you are struggling to get any real go forward and trying to get a good kick off the back of no go forward is pretty hard.Doubt DCE would have been the difference last night....Marty needed to be hooked at the 10 minute mark,and I am one of his biggest supporters here(horses for courses).Very poor use of the bench and looked like Des was trying to wait them out and hope they tired(not a great game plan).When things are not working you need to say bugger the plan with the use of the bench and play what is happening on the field.

 

[Bearfax]

Have to agree with Snake. Two factors exist in dominating a game and that is the go forward and defensive efforts of the forwards, and the effectiveness of the half and 5/8. Just looking at the ground made and tackles by the forwards that limited the opposition to 2 tries, I think the forwards did their job. But Manly's direction after that was very limited. I've already said I don't think Elgey is the answer. Cust will improve, but Elgey just doesn't seem to have the forceful play needed of a half. He's clever, but he's too easily taken out of the game. It happened last year with Croker and Walker at 5/8. The backs don't get the ball they need. Manly need DCE and a solid 5/8. I'm so looking forward to, week by week, the eventual rise of Schuster next year. We need someone at 5/8 with that type of skill.

 

[torana355]

As I said in the game day chat, we have been missing DCE big time, our forwards are trying to create something because elgey and cust were unable to. This leads to drop balls etc. It sucks as we were in such a great place a few weeks ago but we have our big guns back next week and hopefully that will lead to a more polished performance. No need to lose our minds quite yet.

 

[Nice Beaver]

Elgey just is not an NRL first grade half.

He tries. I am sure he is a top bloke and good team mate.

But he is just not up to it.

Cust could be a good player if given a chance to develop with DCE as hid partner.

 

[Bearfax]

Our forwards were again treated with total disrespect by debutants last night .... for the second week in a row we were out-muscled and out-enthused by a pack that played like a pack ... until our forwards especially .... Marty I can lift 300kgs but can't knock a fowl off a farmyard fence Kapow ... play with some aggression and mongrel and teamwork ... we will continue to get dominated in the ruck ...

Individuals were all having a go ... but it is not a game for individuals .... Fix this before talking to me about our halves ...

Sorry Woodsie but I have to disagree with you on this one. Looking at the figures Taupau ran 146 metres, 26 tackles one miss, F-B 221 metres 25 tackles 1 miss, Siro 124 metres 34 tackles one miss, Waddell 127 metres 33 tackles and one miss. Between them they offloaded an amazing 11 times. That is overall better than that group has done all year as a group. You'll note the Penrith forwards did no where near as much work. Add to that their team miss 34 tackles to our 19 and only had 8 offloads over the entire team. Our forwards put in and made the yardage and defended effectively. The foundation was set, its just there was no damage coming from the backs and that starts with the halves.

 

[HappilyManly]

LG is an ESL star in the making.

He has all the skills but every time he got the ball there was a moment of indecision 😎

This gave the defenders on his either side to split and tackle the ultimate ball receiver.

Near the end, I was yelling at Nase to go left but he kept throwing at LG 🙁

 

[PONTIAN SEA EAGLE]

Elliot needs to concentrate more on his ball catching case closed.It’s happening a fair bit lately.

 

[maxta]

We lost the point of contact from the first tackle and did not really change all night, Cust looked dangerous and the panthers have weaknesses,but they bashed us all night.Hard to have a good kicking game when you are struggling to get any real go forward and trying to get a good kick off the back of no go forward is pretty hard.Doubt DCE would have been the difference last night....Marty needed to be hooked at the 10 minute mark,and I am one of his biggest supporters here(horses for courses).Very poor use of the bench and looked like Des was trying to wait them out and hope they tired(not a great game plan).When things are not working you need to say bugger the plan with the use of the bench and play what is happening on the field.

Agree with 100% of this and the excuse of cattle missing is tired, as if that Kikau was there last night attacking the edges, that score would have blown out.
Some of the attempted push passes from impossible positions were catastrophic when simply winning a quick play ball would have been the ideal benefit for the team.
The kicking game as pointed out by Joe was very poor and though execution was part of this, the build up lacked momentum, meaning their defence was up in the face of the kickers....maybe a blueprint from the Titans game.
The energy over the past 2 weeks, resembles a side who won a few early season games by having an up tempo attitude that is very hard to maintain.
It was also a bit frustrating watching the attack from inside the Penrith 20m looking lost and indecisive - the depth was non existent and having your lead runners flat would have worked playing out the back all night against that compressed defence....IF they were deep and hitting the ball at speed.
Credit for making it a contest, in a game Manly were not really up to tempo wide....so the illusion of 15 - 12 in a game Penrith were the better side for 70 minutes.
Not to tear strips off individuals, but Elgey was disappointing as the experienced half, failing to lead as would be expected....but in all honesty the side was down across the park last night and as pointed out - some of this bench that made a difference late, could have been utilised better earlier.
NOt the end of the world, big stars on the brink of return and confident most on here would have taken the position on the ladder today, considering injuries and outs.

 

[Woodsie]

Sorry Woodsie but I have to disagree with you on this one. Looking at the figures Taupau ran 146 metres, 26 tackles one miss, F-B 221 metres 25 tackles 1 miss, Siro 124 metres 34 tackles one miss, Waddell 127 metres 33 tackles and one miss. Between them they offloaded an amazing 11 times. That is overall better than that group has done all year as a group. You'll note the Penrith forwards did no where near as much work. Add to that their team miss 34 tackles to our 19 and only had 8 offloads over the entire team. Our forwards put in and made the yardage and defended effectively. The foundation was set, its just there was no damage coming from the backs and that starts with the halves.

No use running for 20m ony to be dominated ... take 5 mins to get up and play the ball .... looks great in the stats , but doesn't win games ..sorry Bear, I respect your opinion and there is truth in it ..... but our forwards as a group were donkey-licked ...

I am 100% certain their pack walked off that field totally convinced they schooled us ... and they did ... our play the ball was so slow they all had time to get back and rush up and hit us again, and again and again ... and their missed tackles didn't hurt them because they always had 6 men in a tackle ... one missing didn't matter ...

PSS ... I would love somebody with plenty of time on their hands to get a stop watch and go over last nights game and time the average play the ball speeds for both teams ... if I am wrong I will apologise ...

 

[Fluffy]

Would've won the game if we hadn't stupidly refused to kick 2 easy penalty goals in the 1st half. AND the message from the coach was to kick them. So WHO decided otherwise ???

Silvertails.net

It was the message that came through last year that if you kick the 2 then you lose, part of the end of year review.

 

[Kiwi Eagle]

I like Cust, but he is playing adove himself way too soon with our injury situation. For a half his kicking game is z grade and hasn’t displayed a passing game and all needs to be worked on