At What Point is DCE's Contract Justifiable?

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I really think there's a misunderstanding of what a 'marquee player' is.

It doesn't mean "will singlehandedly win games for you, even when surrounded by fringe first graders playing out of position, and with little continuity in the team".

It means "the guy you build your team around". As in, surround him with the players who complement his style of play, adapt the team's style of play to work to his strengths.

Along with numerous others, I keep referring to Thurston and the Cowboys - it's the perfect illustration of 'what's wrong with DCE'. Plain as day last night - the defence rushes JT, no problem - there's Coote, Morgan etc to take the ball. And JT got the ball from Granville quickly enough that he could make the decision that he couldn't do much with it and it needed to be passed to the next guy.

DCE? Bad service from dummy half, and where the hell are his alternate options to pass to anyway, even if his hooker had given him enough time to make the decision before he had a tackler or five in his face?

Here's your hint: how is it that DCE just happened to emerge from his 'form slump' when he had Killer at 5/8, but oops...back down the gurgler when Walker was back in the 6 jersey...? Weird, huh?!
 
Without a decent 5/8 and a hooker giving decent ball teams just rush up on dce. And you can see he has been running side to side like a headless chook trying to do everything.

Look at when we won premierships. We had ballin you had been there for years, foran and choc and matai on one side then dce glen stewert and snake at his peak as well as jamie on the other!!

Cows have thurston but also a very creative hooker, morgan and at the back coote another ball player!

Today panthers have a very solid underated hooker in walsh steering them around, organiser in cleary, x factor in cartright plus moylan at the back is another brilliant ball playing option as is peachy.

Dce needs more creative help around him and players playing in there preferred positions and healthy.

Having wright at 5/8 and williame and brown in the centers is useless
 
When Thurston and Cronk retire, Mitchell Pearce, Adam Reynolds and DCE will be the most successful halves going around. Does that make them the best??? I don't know.. But I would take DCE over any of them.
There are good halves coming through like Brooks, Taylor, Cleary, Moses etc... but they are still yet to prove themselves on the big stages.
Did we pay too much? Yes, but he was the best of the bunch going round at the time and management could have had him for cheaper if they didn't screw it up.
When we win one more premiership I think he will have proven the naysayers wrong.
Take dce every day of the week.people forget how good he is with some decent support around him.
 
That is clearly the dumbest thing I've ever read

He has been injured and had a ****house partner for 2 years now,his forwards are worse than dog****

But this isn't about that,this is about him being the patsy for his hard earned ending the boys club we had
lol that post was such utter horse**** that me and you finally agree on something Cherry!
 
Yeah his form over the past 18 months has been ****. The only consistently fit guy this year playing with a revolving bunch of cripples and last year his halves partner was probably throwing games. **** me dead.
 
For the last two seasons, the team as a whole has sucked, and sucked hard. As a result, Cherry has had no platform to work with and has had to do way too much defence week in week out. He's also battled niggling injuries and had to deal with either inexperienced or disinterested (Foran) halves partners. So yeah, he hasn't looked anywhere near the player he was and can be. But any half, Thurston and Cronk included, would struggle to excel with the **** we've dealt up week after week.
He got a big contract in less than ideal circumstances so he's always going to be an easy target. Can he play better? Of course he can, and he should. But he's actually one of the least of our problems at the moment.
 
Ok this should be the next thread

Is Brett Stewart's contract justified? For the last ten years this ****er has had more weeks off than all of those squads combined,his possibly missed 4 full NRL seasons during his tenure,what other organisation in the world keeps employees who have 40% of their time as sick days

**** me swinging
 
Blame the club for that one. They right royally stuffed it up trying to retain someone every man and his dog but them seemed to know was never going to stay, during which time they let DCE go and sign with the Tits.

By the time they had realised their mistake it was always going to cost them big because they had to match his contract with the Tits....and then some.

Personally I lay the blame squarely with both Foran and with ZtH's influence.
I am picturing a Holden, circa 1963-65 model...
 
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It's a really tough question with DCEs contract value, and like it or lump it it's there. And it can either be a spurring tool for him to push himself to greatness, or it can be the Albatross he hangs around his neck and drowns with.

I think there are a couple of things:

1. Premierships

Ok this is the obvious one, but I would think he needs one more Premiership for there to be a debate. If he gets none, it will be seen as a failure end of story. He gets one I think other points can be used to show he has given value. He gets two, he's succeeded, end of story.

2. Pulling Power

Is having DCE attracting other talent? Does say Valentine Holmes (purely hypothetical) come here because he sees DCE as the QLD half in years to come, and playing in the backline with him improves him as a player, and makes his chances of success and playing for QLD/Australia improve? Sure DCE isn't the only reason here, but it could be a pivotal factor. Does having DCE mean the Turbos have an extra reason to stay?

3. Sponsorship/Marketability/Crowds

It's also essential that we have sponsors that want to associate with DCE or Manly because of DCE, he can't be a knob that companies don't want to deal with, and he needs to be a success as well (nothing breeds success like success).

4. Competitive

Ok, premierships are all great. But Manly need to be that team that is always competitive. If we aren't winning premierships, we are thereabouts, tough to beat always in the contest. DCE (and others) need to instil that back in this team.

There are other factors but I see these 4 as the most key.
 
If he was on modest coin would we have this thread?
You get what you pay for. Modest coin - modest performance. Good coin - good performance. Excellent coin - well,....I've seen a lot of headless chook play going on this year. Even if you are struggling for a 5/8 partner and your team is suffering from injuries you still need to do some of the basics well. If you are paid to be the number one playmaker then you need to deliver a bit more than what DCE did this year. It seems to me that he plays the best "off the cuff". I rarely felt this year that we were working to a plan when we were in the red zone.

Anyway it wasn't really the greatest season for anyone save for the Turbo brothers, so let's just write it off. 2017 is a new year, so a couple of key signings might give him the structure to shine and start justifying that big contract.
 
He has already delivered us a premiership. He deserves every cent he gets. He had little to no help this year and played with a rabble. Did as much defence as some of our backrowers throughout the year. I say cut him some slack. He's in the top 5 half backs in the comp and most sides would kill to have him
Don't forget he was fantastic in the 2013 final and would have won us the final if not for a certain Cecchin.
 
So you're telling me, that only one of the following is worse than DCE:

Benji Marshall
Trent Hodkinson
Jeff Robson
Luke Brooks
Moses Mbye
Aiden Sezer
Chad Townsend
Ben Hunt

It's just a silly, outlandish statement. I understand you're frustrated with his form, but it really detracts from your argument when you say something so ridiculous.

Well, we are placed 14th out of 16. I'm taking it as though the Eels finished above us. Only Hodkinson & Pearce rated below us (table wise). Pearce was basically the deciding factor on his team winning / losing by his presence / absence.

Hodkinson has been pretty horrible.

Yes, Brooks, Sezer, Townsend & Hunt have been MUCH better than DCE the past 24 months. At least they don't get the ball, stop instantly, pivot, pivot, run sidewards to only get smashed in a tackle almost every time - and just have a deplorable kicking game.

Also, for people to say how bad our forwards were this year, I read that we made the 6th most metres in the entire NRL (as a forwards rotation)? I wouldn't say our forwards were dominated at all.

If you listen to the commentators during Eels games, they are pretty complimentary of Robson this year.

Nope, DCE is really struggling. I remember Nate Myles of all people saying his form could be better this year. That says a lot right there. I'm not debating that he's a good 1/2 back or not, because we have all seen that he can be. Surely no-one here is debating with any confidence that he is not woefully out of form???
 
Thurston & Cronk would have struggled behind the Manly packs of 2015/16....unfair to judge off this.
His price imo is closer to $650-$750,000 a season....the Million dollar stuff is all people judge him by....in years to come will prove a key player in any Manly success.
 
Cherry played through both our 2015 and 2016 seasons with injury (both years requiring surgery post-season I believe), and without consistent combinations or a legitimate halves partner. That's the bare bones of it.

Supporters are going to judge him based on the terms of his contract and that he would have gone elsewhere considering what was on offer (only after ours was significantly reduced), and assume he's being paid to have the Midas touch (he isn't). His contract is justified based on what we know he's capable of with the right team on the park. Too often these past two seasons we haven't had that team out there playing for us.
 
Well, we are placed 14th out of 16. I'm taking it as though the Eels finished above us. Only Hodkinson & Pearce rated below us (table wise). Pearce was basically the deciding factor on his team winning / losing by his presence / absence.

Hodkinson has been pretty horrible.

Yes, Brooks, Sezer, Townsend & Hunt have been MUCH better than DCE the past 24 months. At least they don't get the ball, stop instantly, pivot, pivot, run sidewards to only get smashed in a tackle almost every time - and just have a deplorable kicking game.

Also, for people to say how bad our forwards were this year, I read that we made the 6th most metres in the entire NRL (as a forwards rotation)? I wouldn't say our forwards were dominated at all.

If you listen to the commentators during Eels games, they are pretty complimentary of Robson this year.

Nope, DCE is really struggling. I remember Nate Myles of all people saying his form could be better this year. That says a lot right there. I'm not debating that he's a good 1/2 back or not, because we have all seen that he can be. Surely no-one here is debating with any confidence that he is not woefully out of form???

Funny that you mention Hodkinson having a bad year - he's in almost exactly the same boat, except it's u/20s he's surrounded by, not reserve graders or guys being played horribly out of position.

Brooks? Well, he's got Moses and Tedesco, and even with the hooker debacle over there, at least the players shuffling in and out of that role at the Tigers have all had the requisite skills for a dummy half. Even Halatau. Sezer? Hands up anyone here who wouldn't kill to have Blake Austin playing for Manly? Hodgson and Baptiste as your hooker rotation? And as for Hunt - he's the lesser light in a Brisbane spine that includes Milford, McCullough and Boyd (as much as I can't stand him).

Take any of those halfbacks and put them alongside a skill-less, makeshift hooker and a cobbled together 5/8 and then make a fair comparison. It's no coincidence that the guy you named as having had a bad year happens to be the one also lacking decent players around him, or with his 5/8 (Mullen) spending big chunks of the season injured.

And - as for considering Parramatta as finishing higher? Please don't drink their Kool-Aid - for all their bleating about 'we would've made the finals if we didn't get our points stripped', take away every player they signed after they had already exceeded the cap, then see how they go. It's up there with Melbourne continuing to cite premiership 'wins' that were stripped.
 
@yokahontas makes a very good point about doesn't-matta. You take out the players they signed this year when they were already over the cap (Foran, Scott, Jennings, Gordon and Gutherson) and where are they? Their only star player would be Semi and they would be same bottom 4 placed rabble they have been since 2010. Their 'form' is hardly a good guide considering they were put together illegally.

Would Norman have had a breakout season before his legal troubles if he didn't have all that illegally acquired talent around him? No, he would have still been fluffing around like the rest of the no-hopers over there.
 

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