ARL v Super League War in Drama-Mini Series

[Jono]

Remember John Ribot's quote that "Andrew Ettingshausen will become a household name in China" once his Super League vision takes effect?

The ironic thing here will be that Manly will start to make Rugby League a household name in China, not anything that Super League did.

 

[Nuttybott]

RE: Just a reminder. We are great

This is going to be a tough assignment for the writers...I mean, HOW are they going to portray Manly as the "bad guys" (as they will undoubtedly want to) when we were just about the only club that behaved with 100% loyalty and integrity throughout the whole sorry episode? No double-dealing, no secret negotiations with News Ltd...who weren't even able to float a credible rumour that the Sea Eagles might be thinking of joining their squalid little competition (and for the younger Forum members who may have been wondering, this is the reason News have conducted their spiteful hate campaign against Manly ever since). Our club was one of the few parties to come out of the Super League war with any credit...but of course we paid the price for sticking to our principles a couple of years later when the News-owned NRL railroaded us into the disastrous Northern Eagles merger...a joint venture that very nearly destroyed our club altogether (which, of course, was exactly what News Ltd wanted).

 

[Hamster Huey]

In hindsight, we could have gone on without the merger. It wasn't News' idea for us to merge; they just provided a juicy incentive.

In the end, it was the Manly and Norths clubs that made the decision and I think that in seeing how the club recovered from a worse position financially in 2003-04, then those involved in 1999 may concede to being hasty in their dash for cash.

Unlike the other four clubs that had already established JVs, we waited until the Criteria results were in before jumping. News always wanted a presence in Northern Sydney so it makes no sense for them to 'destroy' us after they'd already bumped off the Bears through the Criteria.

 

[eagles2win]

In hindsight, we could have gone on without the merger. It wasn't News' idea for us to merge; they just provided a juicy incentive.

In the end, it was the Manly and Norths clubs that made the decision and I think that in seeing how the club recovered from a worse position financially in 2003-04, then those involved in 1999 may concede to being hasty in their dash for cash.

Unlike the other four clubs that had already established JVs, we waited until the Criteria results were in before jumping. News always wanted a presence in Northern Sydney so it makes no sense for them to 'destroy' us after they'd already bumped off the Bears through the Criteria.

From memory Norths were insolvent and we made the criteria for the next year.
But couldn't guarantee down the track that's why the board thought it was a good idea to throw Norths one last chance albeit as the Northern Eagles have heard someone wanted a totally new name in Northern Phoenix.

 

[Hamster Huey]

In hindsight, we could have gone on without the merger. It wasn't News' idea for us to merge; they just provided a juicy incentive.

In the end, it was the Manly and Norths clubs that made the decision and I think that in seeing how the club recovered from a worse position financially in 2003-04, then those involved in 1999 may concede to being hasty in their dash for cash.

Unlike the other four clubs that had already established JVs, we waited until the Criteria results were in before jumping. News always wanted a presence in Northern Sydney so it makes no sense for them to 'destroy' us after they'd already bumped off the Bears through the Criteria.

From memory Norths were insolvent and we made the criteria for the next year.
But couldn't guarantee down the track that's why the board thought it was a good idea to throw Norths one last chance albeit as the Northern Eagles have heard someone wanted a totally new name in Northern Phoenix.

We couldn't guarantee we'd still be around during the depths of 2003-04 either. But in the shadow of our own insolvency, we saw people like the Penns and Delmege step up and provide us with the first stepping stones towards greater financial security and on-field success.

It was never pushed by the club in 1999 to look hard at privatisation options or wealthy backers. The club simply looked at the cash flow of our more traditional model and couldn't see how to boost our incomes to match the rest of the competition.

The $10mil on offer was the easy option and it proved the worst short-term decision to take it. There was no sense of building the club up with it, only the pursuit of short-cuts which when combined with a fractured Board, resulted in it pissed up against a shop window before you could say, 'Choc!!!'

Maybe if Manly said they didn't want to enter a JV, wished to stand on their own two feet BUT they can only keep the club alive for 6-12 months if they continue as they are, we may have seen this stance result in the events of 03-04 bought forward. Maybe.

And the Pheonix was definitely something considered but was not endorsed by the Board, with in fact (and counter to some Bears re-writing of history) the Eagles voted for unanimously, as well as colours and 50/50 split in home games.

 

[EagleFromMay1967]

Gary Sweet could play Bozo, Bryan Brown to play Arko.

 

[The Who]

Two former Manly players, Matt Nable and Ian Roberts, would have to be in it. At least they look the part and can act... well, Nable can.

 

[Frogz]

Humphrey Bear could play Ribot and Jughead (off the Archies) could be Gallop....

Whilst Mr Magoo could do Bill Harrigan.

 

[Nuttybott]

In hindsight, we could have gone on without the merger. It wasn't News' idea for us to merge; they just provided a juicy incentive.

That was what they told us at the time. However, I heard from several sources within the club that there was considerably more than just a "juicy incentive" coming from News, and in fact some fairly heavy pressure was being placed on certain clubs to amalgamate or die (interestingly enough, it was only the ARL clubs being placed under this pressure...the former Super League clubs were treated as a protected species, and were never asked to merge. Ideas such as "South Sydney Sharks" were mere showboating and were never going to happen).

In the end, it was the Manly and Norths clubs that made the decision and I think that in seeing how the club recovered from a worse position financially in 2003-04, then those involved in 1999 may concede to being hasty in their dash for cash.

Yes, it does seem odd doesn't it? Until one considers the abovementioned "encouragement" from News Ltd for the two clubs to merge. Then it all makes sense...Mighty Murdoch exacts revenge upon the maroon and white upstarts who had dared to defy him by openly siding with the ARL, and at a stroke gets rid of two traditional clubs whom his organisation would have known fully well couldn't stand each other and were bound to fail as a joint venture.

Unlike the other four clubs that had already established JVs, we waited until the Criteria results were in before jumping. News always wanted a presence in Northern Sydney so it makes no sense for them to 'destroy' us after they'd already bumped off the Bears through the Criteria.

See above. The Murdoch empire may well have wanted "a presence in Northern Sydney", but they didn't want that presence to be the Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles, no way. That was why News fought tooth and nail to prevent Manly from re-adopting its traditional name, colours, home ground and supporter base after the JV collapsed at the end of the 2001 season. They put every obstacle imaginable in our way, even though they had no legal right to prevent Manly from re-joining the competition as a stand-alone entity, as we had won a licence under the NRL's own critera back in 1999 BEFORE the merger.

I don't think it is paranoid to suggest that News Ltd has carried on a vendetta against the Manly club for the past 15 years or more...that is why their so-called "newspapers" like the Daily Telegraph gleefully seize onto any and every opportunity to print stories portraying Manly in an unfavourable light; why they have eagerly rushed into print any baseless rumour, unwarranted scandal or piece of general muck-raking they could dredge up about our club; why they tried to encourage Sydney rugby league supporters to cheer for the Warriors against us in last year's Grand Final, then did their level best to ruin our Premiership celebrations afterwards, and to de-stabilise the club by publishing one allegation after another of unrest and disharmony within the club, at the same time attempting to stir up the Des Hasler situation to the point where he actually ended up leaving a year earlier than intended, and suggesting that most if not all of the players were thinking of leaving and negotiating with other clubs. These are NOT the actions of a "newspaper of record", or of a responsible media organisation mindful of its duty to the code of journalistic ethics.

But then, we ARE talking about News Ltd, remember... 😡

 

[Aetna]

I remember the Newcastle Knights being 50/50 in deciding on which direction to go. ARL or Super League up until the last minute. I think it was the Knights captain Paul Harrigan (Chef) whom had a big say on the ARL direction.

ARL:
Manly Warringah Sea Eagles, Sydney City Roosters, Newcastle Knights, St.George Dragons, North Sydney Bears, Illawarra Steelers, Balmain Tigers, Western Suburbs Magpies, Parramatta Eels, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Gold Coast Chargers, South Queensland Crushers.

Super League:
Brisbane Broncos, Canberra Raiders, Canterbury Bulldogs, Cronulla Sutherland Sharks, Penrith Panthers, Auckland Warriors, Adelaide Rams, North Queensland Cowboys, Western Reds, Hunter Mariners.

 

[Nuttybott]

ARL:
Manly Warringah Sea Eagles, Sydney City Roosters, Newcastle Knights, St.George Dragons, North Sydney Bears, Illawarra Steelers, Balmain Tigers, Western Suburbs Magpies, Parramatta Eels, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Gold Coast Chargers, South Queensland Crushers.

Super League:
Brisbane Broncos, Canberra Raiders, Canterbury Bulldogs, Cronulla Sutherland Sharks, Penrith Panthers, Auckland Warriors, Adelaide Rams, Penrith Panthers, North Queensland Cowboys, Western Reds.

Quite sobering when you consider that out of those twelve ARL clubs, no less than SEVEN of them are now either extinct, or no longer exist in their original form, having been forced into shotgun marriages (or "joint ventures") that would not have been necessary had the Super League war never happened.

And BTW in the Super League list, you have mentioned the Penrith Panthers TWICE...

 

[Aetna]

ARL:
Manly Warringah Sea Eagles, Sydney City Roosters, Newcastle Knights, St.George Dragons, North Sydney Bears, Illawarra Steelers, Balmain Tigers, Western Suburbs Magpies, Parramatta Eels, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Gold Coast Chargers, South Queensland Crushers.

Super League:
Brisbane Broncos, Canberra Raiders, Canterbury Bulldogs, Cronulla Sutherland Sharks, Penrith Panthers, Auckland Warriors, Adelaide Rams, North Queensland Cowboys, Western Reds, Hunter Mariners.

Quite sobering when you consider that out of those twelve ARL clubs, no less than SEVEN of them are now either extinct, or no longer exist in their original form, having been forced into shotgun marriages (or "joint ventures") that would not have been necessary had the Super League war never happened.

And BTW in the Super League list, you have mentioned the Penrith Panthers TWICE...

Sorry, it should of been the might of the Hunter Mariners.

 

[Nuttybott]

RE: Just a reminder. We are great

ARL:
Manly Warringah Sea Eagles, Sydney City Roosters, Newcastle Knights, St.George Dragons, North Sydney Bears, Illawarra Steelers, Balmain Tigers, Western Suburbs Magpies, Parramatta Eels, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Gold Coast Chargers, South Queensland Crushers.

Super League:
Brisbane Broncos, Canberra Raiders, Canterbury Bulldogs, Cronulla Sutherland Sharks, Penrith Panthers, Auckland Warriors, Adelaide Rams, North Queensland Cowboys, Western Reds, Hunter Mariners.

Quite sobering when you consider that out of those twelve ARL clubs, no less than SEVEN of them are now either extinct, or no longer exist in their original form, having been forced into shotgun marriages (or "joint ventures") that would not have been necessary had the Super League war never happened.

And BTW in the Super League list, you have mentioned the Penrith Panthers TWICE...

Sorry, it should of been the might of the Hunter Mariners.

Ah, yes...the Hunter Mariners. Who remembers them? A club so unwanted, so unloved, so deeply unpopular that they had rocks thrown at the club's head office by Newcastle people in their own town... 🙂

 

[eagles2win]

ARL:
Manly Warringah Sea Eagles, Sydney City Roosters, Newcastle Knights, St.George Dragons, North Sydney Bears, Illawarra Steelers, Balmain Tigers, Western Suburbs Magpies, Parramatta Eels, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Gold Coast Chargers, South Queensland Crushers.

Super League:
Brisbane Broncos, Canberra Raiders, Canterbury Bulldogs, Cronulla Sutherland Sharks, Penrith Panthers, Auckland Warriors, Adelaide Rams, North Queensland Cowboys, Western Reds, Hunter Mariners.

Quite sobering when you consider that out of those twelve ARL clubs, no less than SEVEN of them are now either extinct, or no longer exist in their original form, having been forced into shotgun marriages (or "joint ventures") that would not have been necessary had the Super League war never happened.

And BTW in the Super League list, you have mentioned the Penrith Panthers TWICE...

Sorry, it should of been the might of the Hunter Mariners.

Ah, yes...the Hunter Mariners. Who remembers them? A club so unwanted, so unloved, so deeply unpopular that they had rocks thrown at the club's head office by Newcastle people in their own town... 🙂

The club that use to run the Mariners eventually did get the Knights though.
Newcastle Wests.

 

[Peter C]

I remember the Newcastle Knights being 50/50 in deciding on which direction to go. ARL or Super League up until the last minute. I think it was the Knights captain Paul Harrigan (Chef) whom had a big say on the ARL direction.

ARL:
Manly Warringah Sea Eagles, Sydney City Roosters, Newcastle Knights, St.George Dragons, North Sydney Bears, Illawarra Steelers, Balmain Tigers, Western Suburbs Magpies, Parramatta Eels, South Sydney Rabbitohs, Gold Coast Chargers, South Queensland Crushers.

Super League:
Brisbane Broncos, Canberra Raiders, Canterbury Bulldogs, Cronulla Sutherland Sharks, Penrith Panthers, Auckland Warriors, Adelaide Rams, North Queensland Cowboys, Western Reds, Hunter Mariners.

Actually Newcastle were one of the first clubs to embrace Super League, their CEO at the time, Brad Mellen said the club was all but switching to Super League. When the ARL issued their initial injunctions against Super League, Newcastle was one of the clubs mentioned along with Canterbury.
It wasn't until Kerry Packer stepped in , and Fulton and Gould were able to convince Harragon and the Johns brothers to stay, the inducement was a truckload of cash, and Harragon famously drove the mini bus down to Sydney for the players to sign with the ARL.

 

[Hamster Huey]

In hindsight, we could have gone on without the merger. It wasn't News' idea for us to merge; they just provided a juicy incentive.

That was what they told us at the time. However, I heard from several sources within the club that there was considerably more than just a "juicy incentive" coming from News, and in fact some fairly heavy pressure was being placed on certain clubs to amalgamate or die (interestingly enough, it was only the ARL clubs being placed under this pressure...the former Super League clubs were treated as a protected species, and were never asked to merge. Ideas such as "South Sydney Sharks" were mere showboating and were never going to happen).

In the end, it was the Manly and Norths clubs that made the decision and I think that in seeing how the club recovered from a worse position financially in 2003-04, then those involved in 1999 may concede to being hasty in their dash for cash.

Yes, it does seem odd doesn't it? Until one considers the abovementioned "encouragement" from News Ltd for the two clubs to merge. Then it all makes sense...Mighty Murdoch exacts revenge upon the maroon and white upstarts who had dared to defy him by openly siding with the ARL, and at a stroke gets rid of two traditional clubs whom his organisation would have known fully well couldn't stand each other and were bound to fail as a joint venture.

Unlike the other four clubs that had already established JVs, we waited until the Criteria results were in before jumping. News always wanted a presence in Northern Sydney so it makes no sense for them to 'destroy' us after they'd already bumped off the Bears through the Criteria.

See above. The Murdoch empire may well have wanted "a presence in Northern Sydney", but they didn't want that presence to be the Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles, no way. That was why News fought tooth and nail to prevent Manly from re-adopting its traditional name, colours, home ground and supporter base after the JV collapsed at the end of the 2001 season. They put every obstacle imaginable in our way, even though they had no legal right to prevent Manly from re-joining the competition as a stand-alone entity, as we had won a licence under the NRL's own critera back in 1999 BEFORE the merger.

I don't think it is paranoid to suggest that News Ltd has carried on a vendetta against the Manly club for the past 15 years or more...that is why their so-called "newspapers" like the Daily Telegraph gleefully seize onto any and every opportunity to print stories portraying Manly in an unfavourable light; why they have eagerly rushed into print any baseless rumour, unwarranted scandal or piece of general muck-raking they could dredge up about our club; why they tried to encourage Sydney rugby league supporters to cheer for the Warriors against us in last year's Grand Final, then did their level best to ruin our Premiership celebrations afterwards, and to de-stabilise the club by publishing one allegation after another of unrest and disharmony within the club, at the same time attempting to stir up the Des Hasler situation to the point where he actually ended up leaving a year earlier than intended, and suggesting that most if not all of the players were thinking of leaving and negotiating with other clubs. These are NOT the actions of a "newspaper of record", or of a responsible media organisation mindful of its duty to the code of journalistic ethics.

But then, we ARE talking about News Ltd, remember... 😡

I love a good conspiracy too, but there was no business sense in excluding Norths and then trying to get Manly to jump into bed with them.

Yes, there were incentives, but ultimately it was the clubs that jumped at the cash at a time when finances were low.

And I don't believe there is anything suspicious about the NRL not allowing Manly to get their colours and name back. They wanted to keep the CC with a presence and didn't want to ruin that by simply having a Manly brand 'represent' out of the Gosford area.

But the CC themselves made the situation unteneable and once the NRL cottoned on that the NE's were not going to be embraced, allowed us to return fulltime to Brookvale and revert to our colours the following year.

We may have held the licence to play, but the NRL owned the clubs intellectual property, as is the case now for all but two clubs IIRC. They did have the power to control what we were called.

---

Actually Newcastle were one of the first clubs to embrace Super League, their CEO at the time, Brad Mellen said the club was all but switching to Super League. When the ARL issued their initial injunctions against Super League, Newcastle was one of the clubs mentioned along with Canterbury.
It wasn't until Kerry Packer stepped in , and Fulton and Gould were able to convince Harragon and the Johns brothers to stay, the inducement was a truckload of cash, and Harragon famously drove the mini bus down to Sydney for the players to sign with the ARL.

Damn straight. They lost a lot of the front office when SL came a knockin' and it was only the playing group which kept the club alive.

There is a fair bit of evidence through '97 that if the Knights didn't perform that miracle GF victory against us, the ARL were prepared to cede the district to the Mariners due to the financial difficulty the Knights were in.

But once the Knights won it, there was no way they could have cut them and it was left to News to wind up the Mariners and send a heap of their players to other SL-aligned clubs and Melbourne.

 

[eagles2win]

This might sound sick but could imagine Newcastle vs Hunter Mariners crowds if both were allowed to live.
It'd make Origin seem like a school yard fight

 

[Hamster Huey]

This might sound sick but could imagine Newcastle vs Hunter Mariners crowds if both were allowed to live.
It'd make Origin seem like a school yard fight

Considering the Mariners were barely drawing a third of what the Knights were, and the general hostilities to them by the locals, it would be a local derby in name only.

 

[simon64]

It's definitely a significant story that should be told.

There's a whole generation of league followers who need to be informed as to why SL scum clubs should be hated.

 

[PONTIAN SEA EAGLE]

We should have defected to super league that way manly would have been cashed up & stand alone instead of having to merge with the bears.

Arko should have read between the lines back then, as if 2 different factions of league comps would have existed.It eventually would have gone back to one comp.