Are you marching today?

[Canteen Worker]

My school is basically voting as to whether to move to the Federal award or stay with the State award. Sadly there is no need for this to happen.

Sadly Byso is very mislead as to how teachers and schools work. We do not have little sponges sitting there soaking up every pearl of wisdom and propaganda.

Was anyone here influenced negatively by the bias or agenda purported by a teacher. Teachers are trying to assist children how to think rather than accept their opinions. How much you have to learn when your young darling goes to school.

Fortunately most people have brains which is why the biased and inane pandering of Byso is so irritiating. Not that I disagree but the basis for the views is what I find singularly lacking.

:bdh: :bdh: :bdh:

 

[Dan]

Because Byso, the Award came about due to Unions. Award teachers are therefore part of the union and must follow union action or be expelled from said union. Are you really that out of touch?

 

[byso]

They are only there to as a rent a crowd. To support there unions agenda............Which is to support the labor party in all things.

I'll guarantee you this.

The teachers will not mention low pay disputes prior to the next state election. But a month after the labor party wins the election they will start striking yet again for higher pay.

 

[Dan]

of course they will byso that is why we have Unions. Do you think it is unfair for them to ask for more money?

Your government raises taxes and the cost of living goes up but you think it is ok for soume of our most valuable resources to continue to be paid the same or less?

Pull your head in son

 

[byso]

Oh my lord.....

I can't argue with that....well done

 

[earl]

Im a fence sitter on this issue.
In my workplace ive seen acts that should result in instant dismissel but due to previous laws , we had to give them 3 written warnings, and the warnings had to relate to the same offence.ie. We had a guy here who 2 warnings for about everything and we still couldnt sack him.
BUT , the newe IR laws are over the top.
This doesnt affect me as we have an EBA . There needs to be protection for the employees , but at the same time , employers need a right to sack useless workers , and we have all seen this type now and then.You know , the guy who doesnt give a ****, says they are paid by the hour and not how much work they do. That really ****s me!!!

 

[Fluffy]

earl if this employee was as bad as you say your management must have been just as bad if they couldnt work out how to sack him.

its pretty easy to sack someone who gives that many opportunities

 

[Canteen Worker]

No - Earl is right and there are some industries that have a lot of red tape on certain issues. However when it is people's livelihoods there needs to be protection for both companies and employees. I support the involvement of responsible unions and employer groups in negotiation. What I have a problem with is where the power is lopsided and it all lies with one party. The new laws tip the balance way too much one way I am afraid.

 

[earl]

earl if this employee was as bad as you say your management must have been just as bad if they couldnt work out how to sack him.

its pretty easy to sack someone who gives that many opportunities

Not an option Fluffy. Its the rule where i work. Trust me, they tried to get rid of him , but with the particular Union behind him , all their efforts were in vain. Im not sure where the rule came from , but its there .
Another thing is , my employer recognise the cost of training another individual and would prefer to council and work with the employee to resolve the situation. In most cases , this is good , but in other , it lends too much power to the employee.

I dont know if im old school or not(only 27 yrs old) but my old man always drummed into us, that if someone is paying you to do a job , then you do the best you can , all the time.

 

[Maddog]

Hear hear Earl, your last paragraph said it all to me.

I admit i have never worked for a large company (31 year old) however if my employee cannot see my worth to him then either i deserve to be sacked or they are not worth working for.
I have seen many times personally where workers have turned up pissed to work and then the UNION has striked because the person didnt get 3 warnings!!! It's ludicrous!!

 

[byso]

If you a good worker an employer Will not sack you. For simple reasons like Dan stated.

 

[Dan]

cme on byso. Even if you are a good workerm sometimes personal issues get in the way

 

[byso]

fair point, I guess your friend found another job quickly enough though?

 

[earl]

Hear hear Earl, your last paragraph said it all to me.

I admit i have never worked for a large company (31 year old) however if my employee cannot see my worth to him then either i deserve to be sacked or they are not worth working for.
I have seen many times personally where workers have turned up pissed to work and then the UNION has striked because the person didnt get 3 warnings!!! It's ludicrous!!

Damn Straight Maddog. We also hve a policy that if you turned up to work Stoned , we send you home in a taxi , let you have a sick day , and then we get you counciling.
On one hand , not a bad policy , to try and help the worker. On the other hand, I used to be a social smoker (not cigarettes) , but I would never dare turn up to work stoned. And we have large machinery that would kill you in an instant if you were not careful and working on all cylinders.

 

[earl]

If you a good worker an employer Will not sack you. For simple reasons like Dan stated.

Yeah , but dont dare try and question a policy , or a decision made by management. Sometimes you can be a great worker , but have a fallout with particular management , and BANG, your gooooone.

But with the old laws, I wouldnt want to try and start a small business.

 

[Ryan]

Byso, and I guess other "fence sitters" in this argument. Let me tell you a story:-

I went to a customer interview yesterday. The gentleman I was interviewing is in the construction / education industry (I won't explain that one).

I mentioned to him that I received a call from our legal department about a court order to garnishee $6k from his account.

He said, "yeah - I know what this is for, I sacked one of my full time staff on the spot."

"What for", I said.

"Just didn't like the guy", he replied.

His employee went straight to a solicitor, and tried to submit an unfair dismissal case. I know from dealing with this business, the actual employee was a gun worker, and there was more than enough work and income for him to be retained by the company.

My client then went to HIS solicitor, and they said to him, "don't worry mate, the new IR Laws put all the power in your court".

My customer then said to me, "don't worry Ryan, I know these effing laws are on my side now no matter what".

It was like hitting me in the face. These laws are wrong Byso, and if you want your daughter to work in a society where her employer can say:-

1. We've decided your on 50% less salary this year. Like it or wrack off;
2. Your working Saturday's, nights etc. Like it or wrack off;
3. Don't like the look of you, wrack off;
etc etc...

then I am very concerned for your ethics.

Byso, you might say there are OTHER employers etc, but it's not that easy. What about leave. What about redundancy build up. What about having to re-organise superannuation.

This is no attack on John Howard for mine. It's an attack on one of his disgraceful policies, and why I will vote labour.

I appreciate what he has done with the Nation's debt level. I appreciate his family assistance improvements etc.

But there's no way I will have my child growing and working in such backward, ruthless working conditions.

 

[earl]

Question is Ryan. Is the garnishing of 6k for losing the unfair dismissal case or is to pay his solicitor?

 

[Ryan]

Question is Ryan. Is the garnishing of 6k for losing the unfair dismissal case or is to pay his solicitor?

Mate - it's like a "hold" on funds (I should have said notice to garnishee)...SHOULD the case go in favour of the employee.

 

[byso]

Therefore the bloke may get his just deserts. Under the current laws?

 

[Ryan]

According to the employers solicitor - not a chance.
Additionally, - according to employee, also not a chance if the employer seeks advice from a solicitor, and just doesn't pay out of fear.

Byso - sorry mate.

Poor law !