Are we getting enough metres from our back 5?

[Simonmyers11]

Looking at the game after 5 rds and it seems the teams that are making a lot of metres coming out of their own end, especially from the back 5 are having a lot of success.

Top two side at the moment, Penrith and Sharks have the most running metres from their back 5.

Penrith play a vert smart game, kick deep into corners and then smother you, really limiting the metres an opposition side make. Works great against manly as players like saab are just man handled.

Gone are the days of just having a winger or centre that is fast, today the back 5 need to take hit ups like forwards. I dont think we are getting enough yardage from our current back 5 to help get us on the front foot. Parker and Saab in particular.

 

[Pete W]

Looking at the game after 5 rds and it seems the teams that are making a lot of metres coming out of their own end, especially from the back 5 are having a lot of success.

Top two side at the moment, Penrith and Sharks have the most running metres from their back 5.

Penrith play a vert smart game, kick deep into corners and then smother you, really limiting the metres an opposition side make. Works great against manly as players like saab are just man handled.

Gone are the days of just having a winger or centre that is fast, today the back 5 need to take hit ups like forwards. I dont think we are getting enough yardage from our current back 5 to help get us on the front foot. Parker and Saab in particular.

100% correct. Definitely one of our major weaknesses. We need a Taufua type or two... hopefully Tuipulotu has a jersey every week

 

[QueefRichards]

No we are not

 

[Uk eagle]

I was thinking the same myself, this weekends games seemed to really bring home the difference. Barring Turbo and Garrick the numbers for the rest aren't good enough. Turbo is guilty of taking the ball in too much but perhaps because the others aren't helping out he thinks he has to do it all himself.

 

[Will on the hill]

Definitely not one of our strong suits but it's more complicated than just needing a back 5 that run harder. If a team is dominating field position it's due to kick/chase, completions, line speed, defence, discipline/penalties all of which are effected by fatigue. Yes having someone that can make 5 extra metres through speed and strength helps but on its own it won't make a difference. Dylan Edwards is a prime example, currently leading run metres by 312m. While he is far from the most powerful runner he is being set up for success by playing behind a team that is dominating all those areas I mentioned.

 

[Simonmyers11]

Definitely not one of our strong suits but it's more complicated than just needing a back 5 that run harder. If a team is dominating field position it's due to kick/chase, completions, line speed, defence, discipline/penalties all of which are effected by fatigue. Yes having someone that can make 5 extra metres through speed and strength helps but on its own it won't make a difference. Dylan Edwards is a prime example, currently leading run metres by 312m. While he is far from the most powerful runner he is being set up for success by playing behind a team that is dominating all those areas I mentioned.

Yes, correct.

I have just been watching a few games this year and noticed in particular Sharks and Penrith get a great start to their 6 with their backs really getting them on the front foot. They just get in there and get great post contact metres and also a quick play the ball.

Saab and Co seem to be picked up and dumped on their back, then the following few plays we are really struggling against the good defensive sides to make any yardage.

Obviously Penrith are very good in a lot of areas, their D is relentless.

I was thinking we really need to give a player like Tippy toes another crack as he was very good at this imo.

I also see Koula taking Parkers spot eventually as he also has raw speed and power.

I think Manly played their best game last Thursday night so far because they just played direct and ran straight and didn't sit back and rely on Tom. The block play and out the back to Tom from Jake is also over used. Better suited AFTER the forwards have punched forward over the advantage line, then it can be used to great affect with the defence back pedalling.

All teams this year that have got the opposition back pedalling have looked good, Manly look unreal when we give Tom some space

I feel outside backs that can get in there and almost poke their heads through the defence with solid runs and enable a quick play the ball have been more vital then ever, especially from the games I have watched this year

 

[Woodsie]

The times they are achanging

I think what we are seeing this year is the result of the inevitable "arms" race ... one side builds a better attacking weapon, the other a better defence strategy..

Past years a couple of players followed the kick and tried to limit the return meters... now it is a good hang time kick with everybody up as fast as possible and multiple players attempting to smash the receiver backwards

I don't think we got worse .. just the game changed .. watch other teams ..

 

[Remy]

Turbo and Garrick do their job whilst the others do get ragdolled quite a bit. Koula and especially Tuipoluta had very strong yardage carries in the games and should both find a spot in the back 5 if we want to be a serious premiership threat. Back 5 yardage carries to start the set is so important Koula and Tui showed that they are up for it.

 

[Eagle 1]

100% correct. Definitely one of our major weaknesses. We need a Taufua type or two... hopefully Tuipulotu has a jersey every week

Love the way Tuipulotu goes about his work, especially bringing the ball out from our 20m zone. Full of raw power, has the makings of a Jorge M2, has at least 3 more games on the wing if Des sticks with the same game personnel.

 

[Simonmyers11]

The times they are achanging

I think what we are seeing this year is the result of the inevitable "arms" race ... one side builds a better attacking weapon, the other a better defence strategy..

Past years a couple of players followed the kick and tried to limit the return meters... now it is a good hang time kick with everybody up as fast as possible and multiple players attempting to smash the receiver backwards

I don't think we got worse .. just the game changed .. watch other teams ..

I will agree and disagree to a point. I don't feel the type of kick has been a huge influence, although it is definitely a weapon in the modern game.

I feel this year, surprising the refs have not used the 6 to go as much and are actually just letting the sides go about their business. I don't feel the refs have had a big influence on the outcome of the results so far unlike previous years. Generally, the sides that have won deserved to have won and have done so by simply running and tackling harder than their opposition and often their runs from their own end from their back 5 have been huge to give them some field position, otherwise a team like Penrith will just suffocate you and completely dominate field position. Cleary's kicks to the corners followed by a brick wall defence is so hard to over come, unless you can return serve and fight fire with fire.

 

[CRPSI eagle]

Garrick, Saab and Harper continually get driven back, they lose more metres than they gain in our own 20.
We won’t win trophies with all 3 in the team.

 

[JBW]

The left side of the field is ok. Neither Parker of Garrick make massive meters, but at least they try and break the line. Harper and Saab make no meters coming out from our line on the right. Both turn their shoulder and stop when hit.

Christian T was better than all of them on the weekend.

It makes a pretty simple game plan for the opposition. Kick to Saabs wing and we'll be tackle 3 in our 30 most sets.

Harper was better the past two weeks, against weaker opposition. He seemed to run with more vigour. Fingers crossed that helps build his confidence.

 

[Eagle 1]

Garrick, Saab and Harper continually get driven back, they lose more metres than they gain in our own 20.
We won’t win trophies with all 3 in the team.

So what about all the runaway try's Saab makes and Garrick being the leading point scorer last season, and also being one of the top try scorers. And Harpers building nicely. May I suggest We won't win trophies with these 3 out.

 

[The Who]

Seems like some people on here expect wingers with the power of Tafua, the speed of Saab, the jump of Taupo and the handling ability of Sandwich. They don't build players that way!
The code's best winger, Ado-Carr is not like that. T'oo is not like that.
The priorities for wingers are 1. speed. 2. handling. 3. good finishing. 4. Jumping, If you are lucky enough to have a winger who cracks tackles, such a Sivo, then that's a bonus. So too is being a good defender.
Be happy with what we have.
Koala and Tippytoes are capable of taking over should Saab's liabilities outweigh his attributes. However, Koala and Tippytoes have limitations of their own.

 

[Remy]

Garrick, Saab and Harper continually get driven back, they lose more metres than they gain in our own 20.
We won’t win trophies with all 3 in the team.

Na not Garrick anymore mate. He takes good yardage carries and has increasingly gotten stronger. Used to get rag dolled, but now is a very solid set starter.

 

[Snake]

Garrick and Turbo do well...
Parker runs with heart but not always effective.
Saab and Harper are well off the pace.

Christian T and Koula need to be in the side.

 

[jbb/james]

Tom aside, the other 4 are like carbon offsets

Dues to dce, tom, jake and martys backended dollars , these contract offset the overpay we have in 3 of this 4. Just like carbon offsets, it looks **** on paper and the results , they do a job but not the right one

In saying that garrick has really improved and while he isnt a winger/backrower , he is a good winger and clubman

The sharks and panfers mentioned .
cleary on 940 and fifita on 800 are the only real big contracts i see, and way more balnced in the squads

 

[Graham Eadie]

Left field suggestion alert.

I don't know what their kicking game is like, but to offset this problem, I was thinking that the back three should try kicking long as soon as they catch or retrieve the ball.

Need to kick at least 50m to be worthwhile but it puts the pressure back on the opposition to pinpoint the corners a second or even a third time, maybe pulling a mistake or a touch line where we can at least reset the forwards for the hit out from near line.

 

[jbb/james]

Left field suggestion alert.

I don't know what their kicking game is like, but to offset this problem, I was thinking that the back three should try kicking long as soon as they catch or retrieve the ball.

Need to kick at least 50m to be worthwhile but it puts the pressure back on the opposition to pinpoint the corners a second or even a third time, maybe pulling a mistake or a touch line where we can at least reset the forwards for the hit out from near line.

Hang dang, are you talking about a good ol fashioned kicking doooool.

 

[Simonmyers11]

Seems like some people on here expect wingers with the power of Tafua, the speed of Saab, the jump of Taupo and the handling ability of Sandwich. They don't build players that way!
The code's best winger, Ado-Carr is not like that. T'oo is not like that.
The priorities for wingers are 1. speed. 2. handling. 3. good finishing. 4. Jumping, If you are lucky enough to have a winger who cracks tackles, such a Sivo, then that's a bonus. So too is being a good defender.
Be happy with what we have.
Koala and Tippytoes are capable of taking over should Saab's liabilities outweigh his attributes. However, Koala and Tippytoes have limitations of their own.

I guess it comes down to what you value more in a winger, pure speed or someone who has some pace but also can play as a second forward.

Saab can finish a try if Turbo gives it to him with no body in front of him, but other than that is no reliable under the high ball and no good enough with yardage carries.

Look at T'oo last years best winger. Was a wrecking ball and is more valuable than raw speed.

Ado Carr has speed, but without a dog's team to put him in space cannot do much.