Are We Fit Enough

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grassy

Bencher
I don’t know if this has been talked about before or if there is an existing post if so then apologies. I am interested to find out what all on here think about our fitness as a team. A lot of the time I am seeing us struggle to go the distance. Without fitness how can we survive let along make the eight.
 

Rosko

Reserve Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Silvertails has raised concerns about our 'High Performance' department, including fitness, injury prevention and rehabilitation for 8 years under Barrett, Hasler and Seibold. The personnel hired by each head coach has changed in each period.
Are we just paranoid because somehow our team seems to be less fit and suffer more injuries than others - or is this real?
 

Ryan

Journey Man
I don’t know if this has been talked about before or if there is an existing post if so then apologies. I am interested to find out what all on here think about our fitness as a team. A lot of the time I am seeing us struggle to go the distance. Without fitness how can we survive let along make the eight.
Hey mate. Like any club, some players are fitter than others. But one thing I WILL say, is our club have a habit of acquiring too many of the same types of forwards, which may give the illusion of being unfit.

In today's game, the Liam Martin type forwards are the prototype. Mobile, lean, aggressive, explosive, intense.

At Manly, we seem to go with the slower, lumbering, post contact metre types (larger, thicker frames). This means overall, our team is slower than most. What it also means, is we get lethargic quicker (so bench rotation is paramount), which means we fade in games, and our middles get flimsy when lethargy kicks in.

I'd go as far as to say, we don't have ONE uptempo, lean, mobile forward (besides maybe Matterson).

This is then exasserbated by lazy players in Tuipulotu, who has had the slowest play-the-ball speed (bottom 3) in the entire NRL over 2 seasons now.

Another point I'll make, is our attackers are easily turned and rotated on their backs in tackles. If you look at the best teams right now, they ensure they position themselves (on their fronts / stomachs) to get up and play the ball at lightning speed. This then creates momentum.

This is another reason we tend to get hemmed into our own zone, and have to rely on DCE's boot to kick us out of trouble.

Lastly, and I say this with trepidation given the Croker love in thread, but the service out of dummy half is both cumbersome and inaccurate. My GOD, someone even suggested he's like Matt Ballin. FMD. You could actually hear the ball fizz when Ballin passed the ball - I know, I've heard it.

So all these things combined, in my opinion is the reason we at least appear to be unfit. I don't think it's that personally, I just think we have a different view on today's body type for a forward, and honestly, lazy play by guys like Tuipulotu, and poor service out of dummy half (on top of very slow play-the-balls by falling into the fetal position when a defender touches us).
 
Our forwards need to watch footage and copy jake when it comes to slowing down the opposition play the ball. Jake is the only forward who does it well. That comes down to coaching for mine Seibold needs to get it together. The best teams are great at slowing down the ruck.
 

Woodsie

Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Member
The speed time of the modern game is such that any team without possession for any length will get gassed.

How quickly they recover is the test of fitness.

We are on a par with the other teams in my opinion.

Last week when we were on a roll in the 1st half .. gummies were gassed ... in the 2nd half when they were on a roll we were gassed.
 

BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
I don’t know if this has been talked about before or if there is an existing post if so then apologies. I am interested to find out what all on here think about our fitness as a team. A lot of the time I am seeing us struggle to go the distance. Without fitness how can we survive let along make the eight.
The Endurance and the Resilience Perspective

I do not see fitness as our issue as all teams are flogged to reach NRL fitness standard

The more resilient coached teams tough it out and recover as we have seen QLD in SOO 2 this season with 12 players for the remaining 15 minutes over came a points deficit to defeat the NSW team
 

Tragic Eagle

Tragic
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I'm not convinced our level of fitness in the forwards is where it should be by round 20 of the competition. These boys are elite full time athletes that are paid well and IMO they should be in prime fitness and the trainers should be looking at how legally to enhance their performance throughout the season not just during the pre season.
 

LeonardCohen

Bencher
I think @Ryan post sums things up nicely. High performance coaches and training regimes can only do so much; the physiology of your squad is going to collectively dictate how the side performs across a given time period. Put it this way, Paseka is never going to be ‘James Fischer Harris level fit’, no matter how much aerobic training he does.

Lodge was signed to combat the shorter minutes we get out of our middles, that are big, cumbersome and gas easily.

In saying that, the Sharks game was definitely not a lack of fitness and everything to do with being down 3 middles in that horrible 10 minute stretch.
 

maxta

First Grader
Premium Member
The Shark game was not a perfect example of fitness as we lost 3 middles and they had all the pill 2nd half....but in general, 100% agree off the pace in this department and it's a key area for the true Premiership contenders.
The biggest issue I find that shows a distinct lack of fitness is arguably the key parts of the modern game, defensive line speed which we are near the worst in the comp allowing opposition momentum and space for the outside backs to threaten.....along with winning quick play the balls, which in a big way, fighting for feet to beat the marker to play the ball is the other side of the coin.
I have a strong belief, if you have energy and desire in your players, it is far easier to overcome fatigue and tiredness as opposed to players dropping heads with negative attitudes will always look spent far earlier or when the going gets tough.
Great post btw, totally get it.
 

Jay Eagle

Reserve Grader
I don’t know if this has been talked about before or if there is an existing post if so then apologies. I am interested to find out what all on here think about our fitness as a team. A lot of the time I am seeing us struggle to go the distance. Without fitness how can we survive let along make the eight.
You do realise we were down to 1 person on the bench in the last 15 mins, from when Jake got told to leave the field , Paseka was gone after 5mins, We lost Josh A early in the second half and Keppie was playing busted for the last 20 mins. Not to mention Lodge hadn't played NRL level in weeks.

This is when the Sharks made their comeback.

All in all we should have lost that game , it was just lucky we put points on the board early.

NO TEAM can play with 1 bench player for 30mins and expect to not have 30 points put on them.
 

Tragic Eagle

Tragic
Premium Member
Tipping Member
I don't believe the question raised by the thread was the limited to the Sharks game. Clearly there were extraordinary circumstances in that game that placed our pack under extreme pressure. I agree with Maxta that generally our line speed in defence is too slow and we don't fight hard enough to play the ball. The outcome is that we often lack momentum and as a result our outside backs don't get much space in which to work. These can result from both or a combination of effort and fitness. We don't have the same line speed in defence or game pace that the top 4 sides have. Not even close.
 

Rafferty

Mug punter
Good reading and generally all pretty good points, but I don’t think were fit enough, that’s not saying we‘re not fit, just not as fit as we need to be, regardless of why we gas out, including all the valid points raised.

We clearly don’t train to play with hi intensity line speed defensively, because it’s self evident week in weeek out, we pretty much stand flat and wait for the ball carriers to come to us, which gifts our opposition momentum, watching the line speed of most of the others sides and comparing it to us, we’re a long way off the money, our kick chase doesn’t measure up either when watching other games.

I read somewhere a while back that the Riff boys get together outside of official training and believe it or not they didn’t play cards or socialise, they get together and hammer out some extra training, mashing it up in the ring with some mixed martial artists, who commented how driven they were and how their fitness was off the richter, is it any wonder they look fit and go hard for the full 80 while it looks like we struggle to finish games off, regardless of circumstances.
 
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grassy

Bencher
Just like to say that I am not just looking at the sharks game but all the others that have gone before. I am def not having a dig just trying to be realistic. I mean Jake moves slow but does a hell of a lot of work in defence. But I see that as fine as long as everyone else puts in. That way I see us playing as a team and not just expecting 1 bloke to get us home. Sometimes on silvertails we can fall into that trap and miss the big picture.
 

grassy

Bencher
Good reading and generally all pretty good points, but I don’t think were fit enough, that’s not saying we not fit, just not as fit as we need to be, regardless of why we gas out, including all the valid points raised.

We clearly don’t train to play with hi intensity line speed defensively, because it’s self evident week in weeek out, we pretty much stand flat and wait for the ball carriers to come to us, which gifts our opposition momentum, watching the line speed of most of the others sides and comparing it to us, we’re a long way off the money, our kick chase doesn’t measure up either when watching other games.

I read somewhere a while back that the Riff boys get together outside of official training and believe it or not they didn’t play cards or socialise, they get together and hammer out some extra training, mashing it up in the ring with some mixed martial artists, who commented how driven they were and how their fitness was off the richter, is it any wonder they look fit and go hard for the full 80 while it looks like we struggle to finish games off, regardless of circumstances.
Yea good post mate. That’s been on my mind too. And just a reminder as I read a post here on Silvertails mentioning that we have fast players in our side but yet we still look slow. That’s what got me thinking about starting this thread.
 

madmax

Bencher
Our forwards need to watch footage and copy jake when it comes to slowing down the opposition play the ball. Jake is the only forward who does it well. That comes down to coaching for mine Seibold needs to get it together. The best teams are great at slowing down the ruck.
Jake is also our most penalised player & gives away numerous 6 agains……on 3 occasions against the Sharks he gave away penalties & 6 agains which led to try’s!!!
 

Tomay

Bencher
Our forwards need to watch footage and copy jake when it comes to slowing down the opposition play the ball. Jake is the only forward who does it well. That comes down to coaching for mine Seibold needs to get it together. The best teams are great at slowing down the ruck.

I was thinking the opposite the other day. Aaron Woods was the only one slowing down the play the ball smartly. If you watch the good teams do it, they don’t rush to peel off, then the last guy calmly and slowly gets up. Our guys too often look panicked and deliberate when they slow the ruck down. They’ll pull the leg or lay there and then leap to their feet. Instead it’s the art of continuous but slow movement - as though you’re too tired but trying your best to get off them. The other option is fake entanglement, which we are also terrible at.
 

Michael Clare

Reserve Grader
I thought the refereeing was focussed on a grandstand finish frankly. Some of those penalties were fifty-fifty at best and the Sharks got on a roll against a side with players unable to come back on due to injury.
 

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