Are Penrith cheating the salary cap?

[frank stokes]

Noticed some discussion in the signings thread about whether or not the riff are actually constrained by the salary cap.

I have put the GF teams (potential team this year) together below for comparison. Personally I think there has been a lot of movement considering that the riff were a bunch of nobodies presumably on rather low coin at the start of their run (with exception of Tamou, JF-H. Mansour and Api?). On average they have lost 3 GF players per year and last year was the first time they bought in nufties from elsewhere (garner, peach and Hosking) who were unwanted and are all fringe first graders that may or may not make the GF starting 17.

Naden, Tamou, Capewell, Momorovski, Burton, Staines, Koroisau, Kikau, Crichton, Leniu (judged at the time of their leaving) are all players that they would have wanted to keep. But amazingly they manage to just keep replacing them with new players that are even better! (Well Sorensen is probs not better than Kikau but he does a bloody good job for them).

Yes, riff have retained/upgraded some amazing talent but imo you cannot say that they have not suffered losses of quality personnel. I have chucked in their contract amount (where stated) and the last year they are contracted (according to zero tackle) for this year’s squad. There are some players on big coin but only 1 on $1M plus (well probs 2 for all intents and purposes) and probs 6 starters that are on, or close to, minimum wage…

Anyways hope someone finds it interesting…

KEY
Bold - new addition
Underline - last year with club
Italics - change of position
Apologies - for any errors

2020
1. Edwards
2. Mansour
3. Naden (bench)
4. Crichton
5. To’o
6. Luai
7. Cleary
8. Tamou (c)
9. Koroisau
10. Fisher-Harris
11. Kikau
12. Martin
13. Yeo
14. May (started)
15. Capewell
16. Leota
17. Tetevano

2021
1. Edwards
2. Crichton
3. Momoroski
4. Burton
5. To’o
6. Luai
7. Cleary (c)
8. Leota
9. Koroisau
10. Fisher-Harris
11. Kikau (bench)
12. Capewell
13. Yeo
14. May
15. Sorensen
16. Leniu
17. Martin (starter)

2022
1. Edwards
2. Staines
3. Tago
4. Crichton
5. To’o
6. Luai
7. Cleary (c)
8. Leota
9. Koroisau (bench)
10. Fisher-Harris
11. Kikau (bench)
12. Martin
13. Yeo
14. Kenny (starter)
15. Sorensen
16. Leniu
17. Salmon

2023
1. Edwards $500K 2024 then $850K - 2027
2. Turuva 2024
3. Tago 2025
4. Crichton
5. To’o 2027
6. Luai $700K 2024
7. Cleary (c) $1.3M - 2027
8. Leota 2027
9. Kenny 2024
10. Fisher-Harris $950K - 2026
11. Sorensen 2026
12. Martin $400K 2024 then $750K 2027
13. Yeo $700K 2027
14. Hosking 2024
15. Smith 2024
16. Leniu
17. Salmon

Penrith Panthers

The latest Penrith Panthers NRL news and player rumours, including team history, stats and player profiles.

www.zerotackle.com

 

[Adz]

Nah,they are just doing it the smart way.
The same as the storm and roosters(yes,people disagree with the sombrero) and how we seem to be looking to approach it.
They focus their main money on a core of players deemed necessary and let others walk.
They hope that some stay around for a bit less and rely on diamonds in the rough,journeyman and kids to fill out the squad.
They have focussed on Edwards,Too,Luai,Cleary,Leota,F-Harris,Martin and Yeo as their core.
We seem to be retaining Tom,Garrick,Koula,Brooks,DCE,Paseka, Jake,Olakau'atu and Schuster as our core and looking to let others on decent money go.Aloiai might be in there too,but there seems to be dispute as to how much he is being paid,seems to be less than initially thought.
Schuster is probably the wildcard in whether we have spent it correctly I guess.

 

[IQofalimabean]

its not the players its the coach. Cleary proved in 2011 when the warriors team he coached beat melbourne in that semi. Looking back the warriors weren't easy beats going into that grandfinal. Had a 50% win rate at the warriors and a 42 % win rate at the tigers neither are top teams but that is what a good coach can do.

 

[frank stokes]

its not the players its the coach. Cleary proved in 2011 when the warriors team he coached beat melbourne in that semi. Looking back the warriors weren't easy beats going into that grandfinal. Had a 50% win rate at the warriors and a 42 % win rate at the tigers neither are top teams but that is what a good coach can do.

42% win rate at the Tigpies should get him into their Hall of Fame…

 

[BOZO]

Dumb Clubs Cheat the salary cap and get Caught
Smart Clubs Challenge the salary cap and Capitalize

The moral of the story ..
Challenge everything and assume Nothing as Nothing is Bullet proof
Everything is subject to correction , alteration and modification
Salary caps , Records , Defensive lines and Game plans are all meant to be Broken

These feathered friends are not Cheaters
They are Premiership Winning Record Breaking Panthers going for 3 in a row

 

[Rocky]

The salaries you list for 2023 look a lot like Manlys top 6 guys - so on that basis they aren't cheating.

They are smart when they lock down players and have kept the guys, they want to keep.

 

[BOZO]

The Winners and the Wankers ......
The top clubs are playing finals footy
and we are watching them and playing with our selves

 

[BOZO]

I hate when Manly Lose !

 

[47MVEagle]

Aren't Ivan & Nathan on a combined 10 year deal that is no doubt heavily backended, or at least varies wildly each season so they can juggle their cap around it?

I think also a lot of the young players coming through their pathways system are country boys, happily living in the area & are therefore happier to stay for unders so they're close to home & family.

The ones they've had to let go are the ones looking for more money than Penrith are willing to pay them.

 

[frank stokes]

Aren't Ivan & Nathan on a combined 10 year deal that is no doubt heavily backended, or at least varies wildly each season so they can juggle their cap around it?

I think also a lot of the young players coming through their pathways system are country boys, happily living in the area & are therefore happier to stay for unders so they're close to home & family.

The ones they've had to let go are the ones looking for more money than Penrith are willing to pay them.

Yep centres, second rowers and hookers are replaceable it seems…
how Yeo is only on $700K has got me fooked tho…

 

[47MVEagle]

Yep centres, second rowers and hookers are replaceable it seems…
how Yeo is only on $700K has got me fooked tho…

Yeah there’d be 3rd party deals augmenting Yeo’s ‘official’ salary for sure.

 

[40 nil]

Aren't Ivan & Nathan on a combined 10 year deal that is no doubt heavily backended, or at least varies wildly each season so they can juggle their cap around it?

It is reported that Nathan's contract is front ended & will reduce in coming years to try to keep the Panthers together (guess it helps when both father & son are on big contracts)

“He’s on $1.3 million this year, his salary will actually reduce, over the coming years.

“He’s tried to take less to keep Penrith together, which is a pretty noble act from Nathan.”

Also, in this article: “Only two players in (the) top eight in (the) highest paid players list are in the top eight (on the NRL ladder), that’s pretty damming.”

The “noble” act from Cleary that will open up future cap space for Penrith

“He’s on $1.3 million this year."

www.sen.com.au

 

[Eagle 1]

Aren't Ivan & Nathan on a combined 10 year deal that is no doubt heavily backended, or at least varies wildly each season so they can juggle their cap around it?

I think also a lot of the young players coming through their pathways system are country boys, happily living in the area & are therefore happier to stay for unders so they're close to home & family.

The ones they've had to let go are the ones looking for more money than Penrith are willing to pay them.

Nailed it 47, its a constant stream of good jnrs that are on the Penrith conveyor belt all processed and ready to play and at the price Penrith want.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

It seems they persist with the same talent from the juniors right through to 1st grade, in that the key players move up the grades in sync so they keep the chemistry going. Easier to do when you have a big nursery and bigger pool to choose from.

 

[StuBoot]

To me it shows that they haven't really got into a bidding war to keep players.
Burton, Kikau left and Crichton all leaving for more coin.
Capewell probs more coin and go home to Qld.

Interesting that none of the players that have left are going better than when they left, maybe only Api is showing something on par.

Will Crichton go from SOO star to just another Bulldogs player?

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

It seems they persist with the same talent from the juniors right through to 1st grade, in that the key players move up the grades in sync so they keep the chemistry going. Easier to do when you have a big nursery and bigger pool to choose from.

It is easier but it’s worth trying to copy.

There is no reason Manly couldn’t do the same with both its real local juniors and the best of the ersatz variety from elsewhere. It takes resourcing, long term planning and determination.

Oh to have another period where players like Ian Martin, John Bucknall, Lindsay Drake, Terry Randall, Max Krilich, Alan Thompson, Russel Gartner, John Harvey and Johnny Gibbs were coming through the Manly juniors’ ranks. And they were real Manly juniors, not imported into the system from elsewhere.

Manly managed to keep that group together, no salary cap in those days - with the exception of Drake and Harvey - who both eventually returned. Gartner eventually left too, but only after it seemed his best football was in the rear view mirror.

 

[40 nil]

a constant stream of good jnrs

How times have changed! In the 1970 GF (which I attended), Manly had 9 local juniors in their team (please correct me if I'm wrong) & Souths had six.

NSWRFL 1970 - Grand Final - South Sydney Rabbitohs 23 def. Manly Warringah Sea Eagles 12 - RLP

Match info page for the South Sydney Rabbitohs vs. Manly Warringah Sea Eagles game in the Grand Final of the 1970 NSWRFL season. Rabbitohs won 23 to 12 at Sydney Cricket Ground.

www.rugbyleagueproject.org

 

[Damien2812]

Only way to find out is if someone disgruntled from management tip off the NRL in the future.

 

[TheSoaringEagle2023]

It is easier but it’s worth trying to copy.

There is no reason Manly couldn’t do the same with both its real local juniors and the best of the ersatz variety from elsewhere. It takes resourcing, long term planning and determination.

Oh to have another period where players like Ian Martin, John Bucknall, Lindsay Drake, Terry Randall, Max Krilich, Alan Thompson, Russel Gartner, John Harvey and Johnny Gibbs were coming through the Manly juniors’ ranks. And they were real Manly juniors, not imported into the system from elsewhere.

Manly managed to keep that group together, no salary cap in those days - with the exception of Drake and Harvey - who both eventually returned. Gartner eventually left too, but only after it seemed his best football was in the rear view mirror.

True. The local Manly A-Grade seems to be neglected, maybe the participation rates have declined rapidly.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

How times have changed! In the 1970 GF (which I attended), Manly had 9 local juniors in their team (please correct me if I'm wrong) & Souths had six.

NSWRFL 1970 - Grand Final - South Sydney Rabbitohs 23 def. Manly Warringah Sea Eagles 12 - RLP

Match info page for the South Sydney Rabbitohs vs. Manly Warringah Sea Eagles game in the Grand Final of the 1970 NSWRFL season. Rabbitohs won 23 to 12 at Sydney Cricket Ground.

www.rugbyleagueproject.org

Correctomundo.