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Are Coaches The Scapegoats??

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by maxta, May 30, 2015.

  1. maxta

    maxta Well-Known Member Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

    +4,506 /100
    Its a tough call but the sport is based on results & the axe seems to fall pretty close to the coach when the chips are down.
    Its especially tough in cases like this where a club legend who bleeds Manly, is under the pump & we all know damn well he is giving it 100% as he did on the field.
    The facts are the team has been on a downward spiral for a while, but is it only Toovey to blame??
    Theres many contributing factors including injuries, inhouse politics, players dithering over contracts, media ambush & as the demtel man would say "but wait - theres more"
    The only issues I am concerned about is - Do the players want to play for him....& the odd selection, but thats always debatable in every team
    The funny thing I see about these coaching credentials being based on results - certain coaches get an elite squad with several rep players & are hailed as the best coach, when in actual fact, any local park coach would win with the talent they have on the field.
    A bigger effort for mine (& I hate Illawarra) is the McGregor effort getting a team who is rightfully a spoon battler, to compete in every game - getting his troops to play with massive intensity to defy teams that you would expect them to get smashed by.
    As a sports buff I done this thread in reaction to every team in various sports I support - the coach is under the pump & I have mixed feelings on everything being the coaches fault - Manly its Toovey - Liverpool its Rodgers & Carlton its that old grey headed fella.
    Maybe my opinion has been transformed in recent times, but in professional sports, change is part of moving forward - I am a massive Toovey fan but the fact is, unless theres a massive immediate turnaround on the field - changes are inevitable.
  2. robbiea

    robbiea Well-Known Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

    +2,580 /79
    Sacking a known winning coach (& club legend) after his team has been decimated by freak injuries all year !
    Yeah ,I think Tooves is the Scapiest of scapegoats.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    • sheridanstand78

      sheridanstand78 Well-Known Member

      +4,867 /73
      I agree that it is unfair what they do to coaches these days. Toovey is the scapegoat for our clubs board stuffing things up firstly over the non contract offer to Gifty, then the toxic Whatmough decision to leave followed on by our halves going after the club badly mismanaged the negotiations.

      I think the telling thing is that when our halves were close to deciding, Toovey seemed totally out of the loop and not informed of what was going on. I have an awful feeling this decision to cut Toovey was made when Bozo was brought it to assess it all.

      The club MUST treat Toovey well now. A failure to do that will ensure the wrath of our fans and members!
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • mjb136

        mjb136 MWSE fanatic Premium Member

        +1,544 /34
        Of course they are. Its easier to sack 1 person than 17.
        • Agree Agree x 1
        • cherry_poppins

          cherry_poppins Well-Known Member

          +1,548 /187
          He has done well through adversity but 20 billion injuries is over the top and unmanageable

          Whoever was in charge of the contracts needs to be fired
          • Agree Agree x 2
          • KOMORI

            KOMORI Born and bred an Eagle

            +3,716 /62
            I love it when people make up words to drive home a point. "Scapiest"!! Well played @robbiea !!

            And I agree that coaches cop the short end of the stick. Tooves' has not had a full strength squad at ANY point this season. We are running players out of position, there's been no time for combinations to develop and flourish and defensively the same thing applies: it's hard to trust the guys either side of you if its someone different every game. With a bit of continuity comes the "gelling" of the squad into an integrated unit, rather than a collection of talented footballers.

            As mentioned, Mick Malthouse is a classic case. Over THREE DECADES of coaching experience and success: one bad season and he's axed. He didn't forget how to coach. He perhaps didn't have the cattle, and I guess this is where a "supercoach" should shine but as it turns out he gets axed.
          • HoldenV8

            HoldenV8 Well-Known Member

            +10,534 /173
            Sadly coaches will always be the scapegoats. Always have been, always will be.

            If a team isn't performing who is it easier to get rid of, the team or the coach?

            I wonder, if we hadn't been hit with so many injuries and weren't sitting on the bottom of the ladder (i.e we were where we usually are at or near the top).....would Tooves be under so much pressure?
          • Fluffy

            Fluffy Well-Known Member

            +5,630 /205
            coaches may be scapegoats when times are tough but players can lose their jobs even after winning a GF
          • Rex

            Rex Well-Known Member

            +2,376 /60
            Blaming is backward thinking. Planning is forward thinking. Blaming is simplistic, black-and-white thinking. Good planning needs more complex thinking.

            Some combinations, and some individuals fit a particular plan, others don't. And these individuals and combinations need to change as the demands of the situation change.
          • SeaEagleRock8

            SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

            +10,557 /215
            As an outsider my best guess is that its the job of the head coach to have a committed and united playing squad.

            The reasons fractures began to occur is almost irrelevant. There's always some issue or other at any club at any given time. Hasler for example was very good at overcoming side issues that might derail a team, and Toovey himself did an admirable job under trying circumstances for two and a half years, but it does seem things started to unravel late last year and if so a fresh start with a new head coach is required.

            I hope Manly goes on a winning run starting tonight and makes the finals again, but I suspect that even if that occurs Toovey would step down for next year.

            When you really want to retain your main players but they choose to leave, that is a sign in itself that something needs fixing.
            • Like Like x 1
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • manlyfan76

              manlyfan76 Parra Trolls are the best. Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

              +8,057 /174
              Bennett could not "coach" Newcastle.
              Toovey may have issues but whenever there is 18-30 personalties in a room you will eventually have drama that is untenable.
              • Agree Agree x 2
              • sheridanstand78

                sheridanstand78 Well-Known Member

                +4,867 /73
                As much as I love Toovey and for what he has done for this club, I have to agree with you on this. There is no doubt been deep divisions for some time, it is obvious that the togetherness that was the heart of the teams success is not there now like it once was.
                • Dislike Dislike x 1
                • Shoe1

                  Shoe1 Well-Known Member

                  +7,210 /106
                  Realistically nobody that works in league has any job security. Players, coaches, CEOs, other officials. They are regularly sacked, moved on, shafted, poached.
                • bob dylan

                  bob dylan Well-Known Member Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

                  +6,440 /192
                  If we won the comp undefeated Toovey was still getting chopped.

                  This has zero to do with results.
                  • Agree Agree x 3
                  • MPC75

                    MPC75 Well-Known Member

                    +221 /9
                    The buck stops with the coach. We haven't looked real committed all year.. Granted injuries have cursed us this year, but there appears to be a lack of cohesiveness in the team, we have shown glimpses but not consistent. There was a clear breakdown in communication last year between Toovs and some players which has carried over this year. Unfortunately Toovs will be gone very soon.
                    • Disagree Disagree x 1
                    • Troll Troll x 1
                    • Brookie Brawler

                      Brookie Brawler Well-Known Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

                      +475 /7
                      The rumours of Toovey's sacking started as soon as the Penns got control of the board.

                      Scott Penn denied them at that time.

                      If sacking him was always on the agenda, which is seeming increasingly likely, the team's poor form to date this season has been pretty convenient in getting the fans to come around to accepting a new coach.

                      At the start of the season, Toovey's coaching record was not one of someone who should be in danger of the sack. I am really suspicious of anyone who would have considered getting rid of him at that time.
                      • Informative Informative x 1
                      • rifraff

                        rifraff Well-Known Member Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

                        +799 /21
                        So much easier to replace a coach than his team.. So much easier to replace a prime minister then his caucus. Look at the EPL and all the managers that get the sack. They all eventually get it.
                      • Dan

                        Dan Kim Jong Dan Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor 2017 Tipping Competitor

                        +7,739 /120
                        "It's alright for you blokes"........

                        In other words no, was sharpe a scape goat?
                      • Moondog

                        Moondog What's up Darth? Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

                        +5,280 /51
                        • Funny Funny x 3
                        • Mark from Brisbane

                          Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

                          +19,670 /383
                          Agree ALL to do with revenge, little else, the current situation is just the excuse.

                          Dead man walking!
                          • Agree Agree x 1

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