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ANALYSIS of 2011 Debacle & Our Future - FAQ.

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Ramrod, Oct 9, 2011.

  1. Ramrod

    Ramrod Well-Known Member

    +433 /2
    (I understand some of you may not agree with me but the following is just my personal opinion).

    Our roller coaster year of Highs and Lows. A latin quote sums this moment: “Bis interimitur qui suis armis perit” (he is doubly destroyed who perishes by his own arms).

    First of all, a note to our Rex:
    Dear Moose,
    - Sorry you’ve missed out on another Grand Final win. You’d have been real proud.
    - Glad you didn’t see the mess a few days later. You’d be awfully sad and flabbergasted.
    - Ave atque vale!

    1). Was Graham Lowe’s departure the beginning of the domino effect?
    No. Other factors have been brewing for quite awhile, Graham’s retirement did bring David Perry to Manly. Was Perry simply a trigger for whoever is using him (re: Zorba) or whether he acted on his own accord is an unknown at this stage.

    2). Was Zorba pushed out due to Sort-gate?
    No, it was just a feeble excuse that a couple of board members were waiting for. Zorba’s power within the organization meant that he was too great a threat to whoever wanted much say over the running of the football club. Interference and interruptions won’t have gone down well with Des, who is very much an autocrat.
    The idea to remove Zorba was a way to remove the wall that Des built. When Zorba was ousted, there went the buffer between Des and the board.

    3). Is Hoppa’s defection a great loss?
    Not really. Poster boy Will is a good player with good propects, but he’s a mercenary, I mean, missionary. He’ll be away for 2 years and anything can happen in between. His whole family has defected as well. I suggest the whole Hopoate clan should not waste money on travel by moving out to the beautiful Parramatta district. They’ll love it there.

    4). Is Des’ imminent departure the greatest tragedy at Manly?
    Quite possibly. It’s not our first disaster and won’t be our last. However, I was looking forward to continued successes and long term stability. This has really rocked the leaky boat. Very sad indeed.

    5). Is Des leaving because he has done it all at Manly and now requires a new challenge?
    No way. If he was really after a challenge, he would taken on this mountainous task – by being the first coach to win 20 premierships for Manly and be a true living Northern Beaches deity!

    6). Is Des leaving as a result of more money offered elsewhere?
    No. Manly’s offer was higher – Des said “Whilst it would have been financially advantageous for me to stay at the Manly club, I have elected to take up the challenge of building in a new direction…” He’s beyond angry.

    7). What made Des decide to leave Manly?
    The reasons:
    a). Stalling his re-appointment for months.
    b). Inteference and conflicts with certain non-football background board member(s)?
    c). Des said – “Despite my ongoing discussions with the board for over 12 months regarding a new contract with the Manly club, we simply could not align our future thoughts.”
    d). Removal of Grant Mayer? - Not sure if this was an early fracture in the relationship with the board?
    e). Removal of much loved (by players, staff and sponsors), Zorba. To quote Des after Perry announced it during the Finals: “It's been a pretty tough nine days, like in most sports and most skills, timing is everything. It was almost impeccable, wasn't it?” This might have been the final straw.

    8). What will come of 2011 and who should be the next in line coach?
    I hope Des will leave a solid foundation for the next in line coach.
    Hopefully, if Des is kind to Manly fans (we can only pray), he won’t take all that he built here, tear it down and take it elsewhere (this includes the coaching and recruitment staff).
    My fear is that every club will want to raid our playing ranks whilst we’re vunerable.
    I hope Tooves will be our next coach. We have a history of success with ex-Manly players. Tooves was a Manly captain and he knows how to lead.

    9). Message to Des:
    “Cave canem, te necet lingendo” (Latin for - beware of the dog, he may lick you to death).

    10). Where to for Zorba?
    I hope Zorba will run for board elections and kick some ass. Zorba is Manly through and through. Unlike others, Zorba won’t be caught dead in another club’s colours. He also refused to criticize the board or the club. What a man. For this, I have a great admiration for him, as I am also one unable to shed this Maroon and White.
    We need more loyal ex-Manly players to come back and kick some ass. Ian Thomson? Anyone?

    11). Where to for fans?
    There should be no talk of desertion. The club needs us NOW more than ever.
    People come and go, the club stays forever.
    Just a few years from now, the board may not even have the same faces.
    The best thing for fans is to continue backing our team and maintain our success.

    12). Time of gloat for the Manly haters?
    Continue your stauch support for Manly and take Moose’s words of wisdom – “Don't let the bastards know you're hurt”. Won’t it annoy them even more if we continue to win despite all these crap?

    13). Is supporting the club seen as endorsing those responsible for this debacle?
    None at all. Use your membership numbers to unseat those responsible for all the mess. We would love to know who they are. Right now, it’s only speculation. We are NOT a lynch mob. We have to be certain so that there’ll be no innocent victims as we have to vote correctly.

    However, I believe Scott Penn is looking at making changes to limit trouble from a couple of board members. He said “It's no secret that the constitution of the Sea Eagles doesn't necessarily reflect the shareholding as it stands. That does create some challenges and that's something we are attempting to resolve … It's a director and shareholder issue. That's something all the shareholders are talking about.''

    14). Where to for me?
    At one of the most stressful time in 30 years as a passionate fan, I will always stick with the club (nothing to do with the board). Sporting Loyalty should have no price, no individuals, no question of reasoning and no self. This army bleeds Maroon and White.
    My analogy – “If Australia is being run by dumbass politicians, I don’t jump ship and call myself a Kiwi or something else.” This is the same at Manly. If I don’t get along with the board, I still couldn’t and I won’t change emblem and colours.
    I’m not like others. I can never wear another club’s emblem. So there!


    I will say yes. I think he should help us out as much as possible. When the dust clears, some may think clearer and may not follow him through the door.
    To the club, please keep Des until end of 2012!
  2. Shoe1

    Shoe1 Well-Known Member

    +7,204 /105
    Agree with much of what you write.
  3. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

    +972 /7
    But who are you?

    There have been any number of brand new members on this site the last three days putting up a large number of posts pushing one version of 'facts' over any other version of 'facts'.

    The posters on here from over the last 7 years and I include those that came over from mwse when their forum closed have in the main part met each other at games and have a base line on which to understand their stances.

    If a newbie wishes to make a comment I can accept it in good faith but I get suspicious when a political manifesto is posted. This is not a particular shot at you Ramrod but your post falls in the pro-Zorba camp.

    Can I ask where all the new posters were when we were thrashed years ago and we shared the pain and our hopes?

    I obviously thank anyone's contribution but I am definitely cynical and I urge others to be so as well.

    *the views expressed in this post do not necessarily reflect the views of this site, any newspaper, or aligned powerbrokers etc blah blah*
  4. byso

    byso Well-Known Member

    +85 /0
    Ramrod what would Zorba add to the board except passion for the club?

    His attitude toward liberal MP wasn't helpful during his heckling episode with Harmer. Having him involved could create problems with therefore deals with gov'ts.
  5. DSM5

    DSM5 Well-Known Member

    +516 /0
    I won't be wanting Zorba on the board. I just don't think he's got the smarts to push the whole club forward. Passion? sure, but these days passion can be so destructive..
  6. Ramrod

    Ramrod Well-Known Member

    +433 /2
    - I am a Manly fan since 1982.
    - Yes, I did avoid posting here for a very long time until all the crap hit the fan this year.
    - I'm not related to Zorba or the Penns, if you're wondering.
    - I am also not related to any player or staff.
    - I don't work for the club.
    - These are not facts (with exception of quotes from the news). Just my opinion.
    - Yes, I do like Zorba. He has always been nice to my family and I whenever he sees us at Brookie.
    - I understand some fans may not agree with Zorba (along with a couple of people from the board) but according to the staff, sponsors and players, they all love him. That was evident that when he was discharged from his job. Because of this, the staff, players and sponsors are more important.
  7. lloydy

    lloydy Active Member

    +86 /0
    As Zorba said on triple m yesterday, "I'm going to the Greek isles to finish my book" I think he should just enjoy his retirement.
  8. Ramrod

    Ramrod Well-Known Member

    +433 /2
    Just added -
    I will say yes. I think he should help us out as much as possible. When the dust clears, some may think clearer and may not follow him through the door.
    To the club, please keep Des until end of 2012!
  9. Little Grubber Kick

    Little Grubber Kick Well-Known Member

    +843 /31
    Thanks Ramrod for pretty well nailing it all as only a Maroon and White fan of long standing could.
    • Like Like x 1
    • Daddycool

      Daddycool Well-Known Member

      +297 /2
      What a week! I've been reading all of this and resisting the urge to vent my disappointment at what has gone on. However, for the record.... I doubt the real story will ever really be told due to the difference in perspective from the various players. That doesn't stop us from offering an opinion.

      From Des's point of view
      I'm sure certain individuals on the board are near on impossible to tolerate and Des has had to swallow his pride on many occasions.
      He wanted a contract extension and pay rise, the board wouldn't do it.
      Zorba was told he wasn't going to be the Media manager next season and that would have had a destablising effect on the playing group.
      He'd been frustrated with the administration for years but with no real alternative had to cop it.

      From the boards point of view
      Des is an employee of the club yet due to his position held enormous power and influence. As such and due largely to his "us v. them" attitude, he was in a position to get his way most of the time, probably contrary to their wishes.
      At the time he wanted this extension/pay rise, the club had no major sponsor and were facing a big loss. He had an option in his favor and chose to sign up for 2012.
      They probably didn't think he would ever sign anywhere else so could afford to negotiate their own terms.

      So what happened.....

      The Bulldogs made him a huge offer, and this is the real crux of it.... He chose a course of action that he knew would have far reaching ramifications both for him personally and the club.

      1. He doubles his income
      2. He gets away from the dysfunctional elements of the Manly administration.

      For the club
      1. He takes advantage of his close relationships with the coaching staff and encourages many to join him, thereby forcing the club to start almost from scratch. In the process setting them back to a huge extent.
      2. He's fostered strong bonds with the players and is well aware that many of them will now want to follow him, further de-stablising the club.

      The end result is..... he looks after himself and the club suffers. This is the most disappointing part. I can accept he's had a difficult time dealing with the administration but I can't help but think, what he's done is just a calculated and vindictive way to get back at the board. He's fully aware of the massive cost to the club but as far as he's concerned.... his own personal gain is worth it.

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