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Age is a factor but the answer lies elsewhere

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by susan, Jul 2, 2013.

  1. susan

    susan Well-Known Member

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    I have a foot in both camps re the age of our roster.I agree with Kiwi that age is not everything but also agree that we have a stale look that some youth with ability would go a long way towards fixing.Newcastle flogged the Titans with an ageing roster but lost their previous 5 matches with the same old guys so that point was irrelevant.

    I thought we would have a good year and said so early on WITH ONE PROVISO and it is something people often forget- the problem I thought may arise (and it has IMO)lies not in the age of our players but in the hunger.

    A large chunk of our team at the start of the year had won two premierships already-many great players don't even play in a GF. In a comp that comes down to the one percenters do our guys have the desire to go the extra yard after achieving so much.Psychologically it must be very difficult and we are playing like that-plenty of courage but not the excitement and creativity that comes with fresh minds with something to prove.

    You can say that they are professionals and bla bla bla but in reality to climb a mountain for the third time for the 2 stewarts,matai,lyon,joey,kingy,choc,ballin,kitey etc must be incredibly tough.DCE,Foran,Faoso,Williams,Buhrer have also bagged a title already.

    To raise one last effort as the injuries and suspensions mount is probably proving a bridge too far in my book.Last years exit in Melbourne had that feel about it.Saints won one comp with an experienced roster and then couldn't maintain the rage at all - we have done so for 6 long years.Tough ask.

    Melbourne do it by keeping the core 3 or 4 and having almost a new side each year to inject enthusiasm.We have kept the core 8 or 9 and asked them to keep delivering.Too hard and they are playing like it,particularly with a coach who is so much a part of past campaigns there is no freshness there either.

    Most games at top level are won between the ears and our desire more than our age isn't helping and to be honest I don't blame them,particularly with very few fresh faces to lift the side at training.It is not so much that we need youth -we need players who have never won anything.
     
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    • The Eagle Has Landed

      The Eagle Has Landed Well-Known Member

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      Interesting post.
      I think that we as members deserve better and if a player or players aren't performing someone else should get a shot, nothing like a bit of competitiveness among players to put the fire back in the belly.
      We need to blood some young players without a doubt.
       
    • mickqld

      mickqld Sack Greenslime 2017 Tipping Competitor

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      So true we look stale,tired and disinterested. Unfortunately the cupboard is bare with talent. Only ones who look likely are Gutherson, Jake T, Sao but they are too young yet. We have no speed in the back line anymore. Gutherson,Hiku to the wings maybe but I can't see 2V making any bold moves he's out of the even if its broken persist with it mould.
       
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      • Shoe1

        Shoe1 Well-Known Member

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        Hopefully the hunger will be back for the rest of year. It's hard for the guys to get up after many tough games and close loss after close loss. I don't count last night as a close loss even though it was 6 pointer. 24 12 was a more indicative score. The wolfman said last week that 2 byes in 4 weeks made them feel disjointed. I feel it is possible now to regroup, get the basics right and have a strong period of games. A premiership seems a long way off however.
         
      • Cliffy4PM

        Cliffy4PM Active Member

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        Our form at the start of the season was excellent. Why are we getting worse instead of better?
         
      • mike walker

        mike walker Well-Known Member

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        g'day all,i dont think its coincidence that our decline started with the loss of joe,faaoso and king,not the only reason but an obvious one.Never been an overly big fan of kingy with some simple errors and dumb penalties in his game but he did give us that mongrel and take no crap player every team needs and this is something we are noticeably missing at the moment.
        cheers mike
         
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        • wombatgc

          wombatgc Well-Known Member Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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          A really good thought provoking post.
          I'd not given it much thought as to moderate success being a hurdle to further continued success. Does make you wonder what motivates the likes of Smith, Cronk and Slater to continually better themselves.
           
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          • Poola

            Poola Active Member

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            I wonder if it is age and desire? All of our layers are exceptional in stages, they are talented and hardworking, however as we all might know if we played any sport the things most required at times are being inspired,challenged, invigorated and coached to continue unleashing and improving your skill set with a fresh mental attitude.
            This the coaching staff embeds and players lap up. So are we knocking on the right doors when we question the playing roster?
             
          • Frogz

            Frogz Well-Known Member Premium Member

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            Brown paper bags
             
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            • Kiwi Eagle

              Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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              They hadn't won a comp before last year :)
               
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              • EagleFromMay1967

                EagleFromMay1967 Sky Punching : send them High as the Clouds

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                Re the motivation angle:
                Its no fault of anyone's, but perhaps after all those years of carrying the drinks, field duty, etc, 2V is too close to the players.

                Can he make the hard decision(s) to drop, relegate or otherwise "Bench" an out of form player ?

                Mick Potter at the Tigers has shown he can do it. And look at the positive result.

                Certainly the relationship between players and coach is a complicated one. But to instill discipline, enthusiasm, friendly rivalry amongst players, you would near a slight 'distance' from the players so that they know you could 'drop' any one of them at any time, if poor form warranted it.
                I have doubts this feeling exists at MWSE.
                 
              • Darren

                Darren Well-Known Member

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                Jase said something to me earlier about Souffs and he reckons we are in a similar boat to what they were. Reckons Asotasi and older group debacle of long term contracts stuffed them severely and ageing and expensive players slowed their progress of their kids. Now they have rid of the older group the younger ones coming through have hit the big time and not going back. They made Isaac Luke a leader and it's done wonders as he is an older player.

                I wonder if we are in the same boat of what do we do with this older playing group? Players that have been here a long time and very attached to the club. Is it time for a clean out if 2013 ends up down the gurgler? If we keep this team for next year we are in a fair bit of trouble. We need 4-5 new faces.
                 
              • EagleFromMay1967

                EagleFromMay1967 Sky Punching : send them High as the Clouds

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                One of them being a new coach.
                 
              • Rex

                Rex Well-Known Member

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                "Increasing motivation" only takes you so far. Just trying harder ultimately leads to burnout.

                To continually improve there needs to be continual learning. Finding better ways. Seeing new patterns. Trying new things. Challenging existing truths.

                Ask the Bulldogs whether losing their big men increased the challenges they faced.
                 
              • EagleFromMay1967

                EagleFromMay1967 Sky Punching : send them High as the Clouds

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                The only talk i've heard at MWSE about 'new things' is Joey getting the halves to play together on the same side left side right side mixing it up. Apart from that . . . . .any info anyone ?
                 
              • silvereagle

                silvereagle Active Member

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                Susan, Love your posts.

                We definitely have the proverbial ageing roster on board today. I figured however that the boys have “one more for the road” left in them. Been a great ride for most of these guys and for us supporters over last 6 years. I think 2013 is a genuine last shot at yet another premiership for most of our core team. That would make it 3 premierships and a GF appearance in 6 years. Not bad and got to be some sort of record. That is something 2V should be strongly promoting in their minds. It’s there for the taking...do they really want it?? Now despite some very patchy attacking performances of late and some very close 2-point losses against some atrocious refereeing decisions (eg. the penalty in the dogs game in extra time) and against I must say some good quality sides, here we are still sitting miraculously in 4th position coming into the business end of the season. We just got snake back and I thought he was a shining light on Monday night, we will have Richie back shortly and looks like gorgeous is finding his real game (great try on Monday night)....and of course we get Foran back. So...my feeling is if we can get that winning feeling back again and just make the semi’s, the fact that it really is the last hurrah for a few of our guys, might just be the big x-factor for us. A good coach would surely lever this side of it. We got the physical ability to win in 2013.....it’s just a question of the hunger and mental desire....and that is where the coaching will play a big role. That's where 2V will work out what class he is in.
                 
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                • Moops

                  Moops Well-Known Member

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                  The reason the Rabbitohs are doing well is because they have so much competition for places. No current player can afford drop into a comfort zone because there is a hungry, talented player ready to step up and a coach who is willing to give them a chance. They have a lot of depth all over the park and have an exciting crop of youngsters coming through. They will be tough to beat for a few years yet.
                   
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                  • Darren

                    Darren Well-Known Member

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                    Excellent write up Silvertail but except for Kite no one else is leaving!! As you mentioned three gf's in 6 years is an amzing stat and one many would love to have.
                    Moops hit it right on with competition at Souffs but with both other teams at the bottom who do we bring up? Skinner, Gower, Cunningham are all plodders and Sao is still a kid. Jeese never got a look in and Chee-Kam is always injured. Injuries have killed us but there is still some depth with George stepping up.

                    The backs are even worse and unfortunately Farrar would be next in line as Gutherson is too young. Lucky we have Hiku who tries hard.
                     
                  • Masked Eagle

                    Masked Eagle Well-Known Member

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                    I said this in a post on monday night. The season is most definitely salvageable but ultimately its the players who have to decide how much they want it.

                    Looking back at the premiership years you can see those teams level of commitment was at a higher level. It's really about discipline. Thats just not giving away penalties, but its a discipline to the game plan and a consistent 80 minute performance. Our effort levels during games are a bit all over the place. If something happens in a game it can produce either an inspired 10 minutes or so, or we'll drop our bundle. If your team is fully focused everything that happens in a game is just a reason for you to go harder the next time. I don't think this team has that going for them just right now. Thats not to say we can't still get there, just atm we aren't.
                     
                  • Moops

                    Moops Well-Known Member

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                    We have a good group of young kids as well but they are still 1/2 years away from having an impact. Wouldn't hurt to give them a game or two to see how they handle things, though. Just put them in one game at a time and give them a taste. If they do well, leave them there, if not, don't panic, support them and nurture them back in the NSW Cup.
                     
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