A Stellar Year for the Club

[ricardo]

Unfortunately the new owners haven't put in place the personnel together for a successful club. Hiring a newby coach, sacking a great trainer, hiring a truly woeful assistant coach, allowing the dark lord Fulton anywhere near the team ... We can all see it why can't they?

 

[NYEagle]

How many threads can say the same thing! **** happens and it happens at every football club, even the great ones..They are generally run by football people or those interested in football and not tactical geniuses.The rocky ride makes success even sweeter.Tell me a club that hasn't endured a so called crisis at some time.

Look at the clubs most consider to have the greatest history and importance in this country in both leading codes over a long period. Manly Dogs Souths Roosters Broncos Essendon Hawthorn Collingwood - no team ever dominates for decades. And it is nigh on impossible in the salary cap era. Outside of the Broncos our club has probably been the most consistent with a GF win every decade since the 70s.

We didn't miss the 8 for a decade!!Needs to be a bit of perspective here.

A few choices here.Jump off a bridge, hand in your membership or enjoy the inevitable rocky ride.....if you picked the latter the last 70 years has been sensational.

Look at Melbourne - what are they doing?

Look at Brisbane over the last 30 years - not many dips there...

Bottom line: there is a model for sustained success, and we are not following it.

(1) Having a supercoach is one strategy, and we had one in Hasler. Hence the two premierships. Perhaps we need one again, but I'm willing to give Barrett until the end of the year and a few quality players on the field.

(2) Have an isolated environment. While Brisbane and Melbourne have that geographically they also have that in the way they do business. They don't just go after players with elevated prices from failure teams like Penrith, Souths, Newcastle, Gold Coast and Balmain. They take the cheap minor leaguers, give them simple roles to play, and build them from the bottom up. If they want to gallop off after they get an elevated price all good they start the cycle again.

(3) Have a spine. Melbourne and Brisbane have great spine players that they keep on board by doing (1) and (2) well. We have a spine in the Trobjs and Cherry that we can build a team around, and have massively failed to do so this year due to our inability to action (1) and (2)

Based on this, I believe a blueprint is there for all to see, and it is here where Manly have failed and we don't even have any juniors to draw on so it is right to the grass roots.
For some unknown reason we fell into Phil Gould "5 year plan" talk. It won't work, will cost a lot of money, and we will lose the Trobjs if we continue to bull**** them around.

NYEagle

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Look at Melbourne - what are they doing?

Look at Brisbane over the last 30 years - not many dips there...

Bottom line: there is a model for sustained success, and we are not following it.

(1) Having a supercoach is one strategy, and we had one in Hasler. Hence the two premierships. Perhaps we need one again, but I'm willing to give Barrett until the end of the year and a few quality players on the field.

(2) Have an isolated environment. While Brisbane and Melbourne have that geographically they also have that in the way they do business. They don't just go after players with elevated prices from failure teams like Penrith, Souths, Newcastle, Gold Coast and Balmain. They take the cheap minor leaguers, give them simple roles to play, and build them from the bottom up. If they want to gallop off after they get an elevated price all good they start the cycle again.

(3) Have a spine. Melbourne and Brisbane have great spine players that they keep on board by doing (1) and (2) well. We have a spine in the Trobjs and Cherry that we can build a team around, and have massively failed to do so this year due to our inability to action (1) and (2)

Based on this, I believe a blueprint is there for all to see, and it is here where Manly have failed and we don't even have any juniors to draw on so it is right to the grass roots.
For some unknown reason we fell into Phil Gould "5 year plan" talk. It won't work, will cost a lot of money, and we will lose the Trobjs if we continue to bull**** them around.

NYEagle

Can't disagree with most of this , but have to disagree with the 5 year plan comment.

We cannot just go out and buy instant success , we have to build around a core group, recruit a couple of top tier players ( like we did in the Kite/Lyon era), and work our way back up again.

That's at least 5 years!!

 

[EagleFromMay1967]

But the coach is to be included in the successful "core group". Barrett is such a newbie, it like he's on work experience. The Club and all its fans will have to have an extremely patient long term view. And I just cant see that happening.

We are used to success. We expect it. Demand it. Penn is looking down the gurgler.

 

[NYEagle]

Can't disagree with most of this , but have to disagree with the 5 year plan comment.

We cannot just go out and buy instant success , we have to build around a core group, recruit a couple of top tier players ( like we did in the Kite/Lyon era), and work our way back up again.

That's at least 5 years!!

Fair call Mark. I guess my problem with the 5 year plan is that it should not be so finite. It is as if 3 or 4 years of mediocrity is acceptable as long as by the 5th year you get a premiership. That's too prescriptive and puts undue pressure and prescriptive expectations on the playing group.
The whole process needs to be more organic that this. identify your key elements that form the spine of the group (Trobjs Cherry), get a coach on board who is a strong mentor and does not tolerate mediocrity, and then get some affordable bit players around them, but only ones that will buy in to the culture or "brand" as they prefer to call it, and expect improvement starting from day 1. Build team character with high expectations all the time.
I just don't feel Manly are doing that very well.
NYEagle

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Look at Melbourne - what are they doing?

Look at Brisbane over the last 30 years - not many dips there...

Bottom line: there is a model for sustained success, and we are not following it.

1 Have a supercoach? Simple, so long as you have a super budget
2. Have an isolated environment? Not sure what you mean by isolated, but yes both Melbourne and Brisbane prosper because of their one-team town status, for example, with TPAs.
3. Have a spine! Good idea, it helps if you have Cam Smith & co, Melbourne are still getting by with that lot, and Brisbane made a decent spine by buying Darius Boyd and Milford (and still haven't won a comp yet with their champion spine)

I would add a 4th ingredient, related to the first three, and actually make it No 1: namely have a vast amount of funds available for signing all the most talented juniors and providing the best in all manner of support facilities.
Of the Sydney teams only the Politis-backed Chooks can approach the spending power of Melbourne and Brisbane and that is reflected in their success over the last 15 years or so.
There we have it, money solves all problems...

 

[Mitch]

Plenty of valid points here, and while there aren't excuses there are several reasons behind poor form in particular within NSW and Holden Cup.

Holden Cup - Anyone that watched a lot of the 2015 knew that Knight, Trbojevic, Demetriou and Pratt were key to our success and they are all no longer there. We've always had troughs in this grade and unlike teams such as Brisbane, Penrith etc with the junior nursery to continually bust out competitive lower grade teams, we don't have that.

NSW Cup - The likely starting halves for this year was to be reasonably solid with Issac John and Moltzen to steer the team around, which obviously hasn't happened due to injury.

Together with this, injuries in top grade has forced good, but inconsistent, NSW Cup players up into the NRL such as (Leary, Starling etc - note they have had some decent form in top grade, but not enough to label them consistent NRL players). With the flow on effect being fringe NSW cup players having to take on a greater role in NSW cup which obviously isn't resulting in any great form.

Many of our recruits haven't made the impacted hoped for and some existing players are struggling big time, but I thought this was just another perspective on some of the issues we've faced.

 

[MadMarcus]

Laughing Stock commenced Octobet 2011 with Haslergate.

Is that when you bet you will lose by 8 points or more?

 

[susan]

Look at Melbourne - what are they doing?

Look at Brisbane over the last 30 years - not many dips there...

Bottom line: there is a model for sustained success, and we are not following it.

(1) Having a supercoach is one strategy, and we had one in Hasler. Hence the two premierships. Perhaps we need one again, but I'm willing to give Barrett until the end of the year and a few quality players on the field.

(2) Have an isolated environment. While Brisbane and Melbourne have that geographically they also have that in the way they do business. They don't just go after players with elevated prices from failure teams like Penrith, Souths, Newcastle, Gold Coast and Balmain. They take the cheap minor leaguers, give them simple roles to play, and build them from the bottom up. If they want to gallop off after they get an elevated price all good they start the cycle again.

(3) Have a spine. Melbourne and Brisbane have great spine players that they keep on board by doing (1) and (2) well. We have a spine in the Trobjs and Cherry that we can build a team around, and have massively failed to do so this year due to our inability to action (1) and (2)

Based on this, I believe a blueprint is there for all to see, and it is here where Manly have failed and we don't even have any juniors to draw on so it is right to the grass roots.
For some unknown reason we fell into Phil Gould "5 year plan" talk. It won't work, will cost a lot of money, and we will lose the Trobjs if we continue to bull**** them around.

NYEagle

Oranges with oranges please.

Melbourne cheated the cap for four years and assembled a team of superstars which should not have occurred They were also stripped of almost everything they won and I for one will never hold that up as a culture to admire like many seem to. They have also had a bottomless pit of money thrown at them from the beginning through News Ltd. Around the start of their little false dynasty they contracted 10 out of the 17 Australian junior Kangaroos in one go. Those contracts were not required to be included in the cap.Rupert just kept feeding Little Laughlins toy while Laughlin ironically supported the Broncos.

Brisbane get 35 000 to 50 000 every home game and have a city of 2 million to source TPAs.They have a group called the Thorougbreds that have always acted in concert with the club to provide TPAs in contravention of the laws and that is the worst kept secret in the League. They were also ordinary for most of the last decade from 2006 even given they field basically an origin side every week and always have.

We have never had a great junior base and never will.We will never be strong financially.It will always be a battle and we have shown we are always up for a battle.

Anyway the above are moot points really.Some choose to complain and declare the end is nigh...that is a perfectly valid response if is that how a supporter feels.

I just enjoy following the club through thick and thin and know from 40 years experience these things go in cycles.

To be honest our situation doesn't worry me a bit.Seen it all before.

What I am am far more worried about is the secular isssue,rather than the cyclical problem our club has ,that is the demise of Rugby League as an entertaining sport.It has lost its sense of adventure and is becoming a clinical contest of athletes, not footballers.And this demise was spurred by the wrestle,another great concoction of that wonderful club,The Melbourne Storm.

 

[Moops]

How many threads can say the same thing! **** happens and it happens at every football club, even the great ones..They are generally run by football people or those interested in football and not tactical geniuses.The rocky ride makes success even sweeter.Tell me a club that hasn't endured a so called crisis at some time.

Look at the clubs most consider to have the greatest history and importance in this country in both leading codes over a long period. Manly Dogs Souths Roosters Broncos Essendon Hawthorn Collingwood - no team ever dominates for decades. And it is nigh on impossible in the salary cap era. Outside of the Broncos our club has probably been the most consistent with a GF win every decade since the 70s.

We didn't miss the 8 for a decade!!Needs to be a bit of perspective here.

A few choices here.Jump off a bridge, hand in your membership or enjoy the inevitable rocky ride.....if you picked the latter the last 70 years has been sensational.

Not entirely relevant comparing Manly to clubs like Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon, Souths, Roosters, Dogs and Broncos. They have MASSIVE resources and can afford to write off lean seasons. Collingwood could suck for 20 years and it wouldn't affect the bottom line. This is the same for the others as well. Manly on the other hand? Not really. We have been punching above our weight for 20 years. We can't afford to suck for long at all.

 

[susan]

GRANT = CAP in 2018 and will exceed it from there going forward. Keeps the financially weak clubs competitive because it HAS TO.

Most clubs bar a lucky few are broke. Sure most clubs wont match Dogs, Broncos and Roosters but they never have; but those clubs will be in the game due to the grant or there wont be a game to sell.

 

[The Who]

Melbourne, in recent seasons, have been successful with a roster on paper that didn't appear as strong as ours. They have NO juniors. They take unknowns and turn them into stars. They take rejects - like Blair - and have him playing top football. They now just have two of their three superstars, and lose them to SOO, but they still are leading the comp.
When have you see them blow a 20-point lead with 30 minutes to play?
If Manly could play the same brand of attacking football, scoring 46 points against the 2013, 2014 and 2015 minor premiers, and be leading the comp then I'd be thrilled.
I don't like Melbourne but I admire their continued professionalism and success. We are currently a rabble compared to them.
It's all very well being one-eyed, but to keep believing that their success is due to cheating the cap many years ago is idiocy.

 

[Woodsie]

I do not believe there is a 5 year plan. I think any coach or football manager who walked in saying they had a 5 year plan would be dropped through a hole in the floor.

It may realistically take 5 years as @Mark from Brisbane says, but I am certain they are now looking at a 2 year plan. 2017 buy well, 2018 add the cream.

Anybody talking any other plan would be punted as defeatist.

5 year plans are so 90's.

 

[rmd]

Well, I just don't get all this PR material they rolled out last year about spending a massive amount to develop and support the local juniors so a system was in place to develop guys like Beaver, Choc, Gartner, 2V etc etc. What I could not understand is the sacking of David Heath (maybe he resigned) and then they put in Hopoate for SG Ball, who I have heard, roped in a bunch of young guys from the Western Suburbs (I don't know if true but that was the rumblings I heard from some parents).

I remember reading an article in the local press when there was someone bragging that we would be 'challenging to win all the juniors this year'. I honestly believe whoever was interviewed must have been misquoted and what he/she actually said was that 'It will be challenging for the juniors to win this year.'

I wrote it in a post some weeks ago and the issue is that the club seems to have lost a lot of its soul at the moment and in 'soul' I mean the culture. Players are saying the right things but it's not showing on the field. It does in spades, but not bucketloads.

There's a lot of talk from the players on how they thrive under adversity at Manly and okay, I believe them, but can they please decide when there's eventually enough adversity for them to 'thrive'!

 

[NYEagle]

Plenty of valid points here, and while there aren't excuses there are several reasons behind poor form in particular within NSW and Holden Cup.

Holden Cup - Anyone that watched a lot of the 2015 knew that Knight, Trbojevic, Demetriou and Pratt were key to our success and they are all no longer there. We've always had troughs in this grade and unlike teams such as Brisbane, Penrith etc with the junior nursery to continually bust out competitive lower grade teams, we don't have that.

NSW Cup - The likely starting halves for this year was to be reasonably solid with Issac John and Moltzen to steer the team around, which obviously hasn't happened due to injury.

Together with this, injuries in top grade has forced good, but inconsistent, NSW Cup players up into the NRL such as (Leary, Starling etc - note they have had some decent form in top grade, but not enough to label them consistent NRL players). With the flow on effect being fringe NSW cup players having to take on a greater role in NSW cup which obviously isn't resulting in any great form.

Many of our recruits haven't made the impacted hoped for and some existing players are struggling big time, but I thought this was just another perspective on some of the issues we've faced.

You make excellent points, and when I read your post I thought of one thing: why are Manly paying 500K plus for first grade Penrith and Souths players when these teams are doing all the great work creating excellent juniors through Holden Cup?. Why not get 5 of those Penrith and Souths junior players for the price of one senior. If 2 make it, we are in front!.
The way NRL is played these days, there are few champions but a hell of a lot of players who fall in the middle that are all about the same. If you grab a few out of juniors and coach in a team mentality (which I think Barrett may be good for), some fire in the blood, and the Manly brand; they will stand out!.
NYEagle

 

[Mitch]

You make excellent points, and when I read your post I thought of one thing: why are Manly paying 500K plus for first grade Penrith and Souths players when these teams are doing all the great work creating excellent juniors through Holden Cup?. Why not get 5 of those Penrith and Souths junior players for the price of one senior. If 2 make it, we are in front!.
The way NRL is played these days, there are few champions but a hell of a lot of players who fall in the middle that are all about the same. If you grab a few out of juniors and coach in a team mentality (which I think Barrett may be good for), some fire in the blood, and the Manly brand; they will stand out!.
NYEagle

Funny you should say that mate, I unfortunately sat through the entire Holden Cup game the other day and once the fulltime whistle finally blew, my old man said while we were horrible, this Penrith side is full of talent and no matter how much they want to keep them all, it is impossible to do.

Especially looking at a team like Penrith, who are stacked for outside backs in first grade, some of their gun 20's backs would be perfect targets.

 

[wedgetail eagle]

Stella !!

 

[Shoe1]

A stellar year for the club?

Stella! STELLA!!!!

 

[Shoe1]

View attachment 3816 Stella !!

That is spooky @wedgetail eagle !!!

 

[wedgetail eagle]

Indeed it is, Shoe1. Timing is everything.