A Question for the knowledgeable or those pretending to be ...

[Budgie]

What really struck me today and for much of last year is how little time we seem to have to create attack with the ball.
Is this because:
a) the other team is always offside (though other teams don't seem to have the same problem).
b) slow service from dummy half
c) poor structure in attack
d) lack of someone driving the attack

I'd be really interested in your thoughts.

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

All of the above.

 

[Harvies elbow]

A. definitely. Bit of B as well.
I'm in the pretending category too BTW.

 

[manlyfan76]

New team, new combinations.
Api at dummy half is a poor decision maker and poor distributer and that costs us continuity.

 

[Ryan]

What really struck me today and for much of last year is how little time we seem to have to create attack with the ball.
Is this because:
a) the other team is always offside (though other teams don't seem to have the same problem).
b) slow service from dummy half
c) poor structure in attack
d) lack of someone driving the attack

I'd be really interested in your thoughts.

For mine, it is our play the ball speed coming out of defense. You speed this up, dummy half plays the ball to a short ball runner, you're playing against a retreating defense (see Parra today).

This means the defensive line is constantly back tracking (and what frustrates me no end with Taufua, because he does the hard stuff metreage wise, but the slow play the balls allows a defensive line to set).

Also, I stated this before the game started. While it's great to have strength in the forwards (ours has plenty), you need a mountain of mobility, and that's something we lack (Dogs have a similar pack to ours, but Des got away with it, because they also became ball players - for a while).

Defensive structures and ruck control can counter strong forwards. You just can't coach against speed. Speed conquers all if you can control the ball.

Even Tommy has a very slow play the ball. Wintertsteins is slow. Myles is STILL getting up from being tackled today.

Manly constantly play against a set defense. Other teams create plays that allow to play against a retreating defense. Toovey used to focus on "metres after impact". A lot of our boys go into the fetal position (Nate Myles) after being tackled. Again - allows the opposition defense to become set.

But you know what controls all of that? Fitness. You have to be damned fit, and be full of energy to pop up, create a very fast play the ball to a dummy half, who passes to an up-tempo, mobile forward continuing the roll.

 

[Simonmyers11]

All of the above but in saying that our first raid was great and resulted in a try.

After that i think it was a combination of no ball in good field position. We only had 2 chances in the first halfand should of scored on both on them. Also looked likely in the second half in the last 10 when we only had a few chances. We have enough attacking weapons and having green has already helped. Dce combination with walker and siro will only get better and tom t and kelly and uate are dangerous.

We didn't have much of a platform to build on. If we were the ones with 65% of ball and 40 tackles on their goal line and couldn't score we would have a problem . Poor ball handling cost us. A few extra off loads would help. Perret got a bashing on here but he offloaded every time and got some second phase play.

 

[Top End Eagle]

It's a (b) from me.

 

[ricardo]

I'm calling it a trial game. Season starts v the bunnies

 

[Crusher_Cleal]

The line speed difference in both attack and defence was extremely noticeable today. They were far superior in both. We looked particularly slow coming up in defence.

 

[Chip and Chase]

I'm not convinced we are ever working to a plan in attack. We seem to waste so many tackles in the opp 20 with one out nothing plays, that result in slow play the balls, because no one is directing the attack. The good playmakers run plays to suck in defenders and then play what unfolds. We never seem like we have a higher purpose in mind the majority of the time. I'm more confident of us scoring from 40 or 50m out then I am from inside 20m.

 

[pjayz]

Pretender here - two main things:

1. Good crisp service from dummy half
2. Play the ball speed

 

[Leho]

A quick play the ball is essential but quick service from dummy half to some one hitting the ball at pace is what gets a roll on and marchers you down the field. I hate seeing the dummy half skip a couple of steps out of the play the ball sideways then giving his runner the ball with defense on him giving him no chance to hit the line instead the line hits him, as much as I hate to say it I think cam smith does this well give early ball.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

We were really good with making metres. Had 38% possession at half time although had only 15 less metres than them.

I think it's with Api. He's too slow which allows for the opposition to seem offside as they have plenty of time to rush up.

Very confident our attack will improve in 2017. DCE and Green combination will improve, especially due to the pressure green takes off DCE, as evident today

I think the next time we meet parramatta we will be a much better side with the ball, not just without it.

Still can't get over that defence today, thought it was 2014 for a moment, seems that rough period (2015-16) is over and we will begin to rise and build that club culture back up again. Defence wins games but only if you can have some quality in attack, that I think we showed today as we used the ball really well scoring on the very few occasions we were in the eels 20m, ball security however must improve and should do without the somewhat wet conditions and with time

 

[Shoe1]

It's a (b) from me.

Agreed. An extra second too long most plays.

But with 50 percent possession who knows?

My main gripe is the referreeing decisions in the first 20 of the 2nd half. Killers.

The shepherd on tackle one when everybody stopped. That is a penalty. Not "ok just play it from there" - they didn't deserve 5 more tackles in our 20 after that.

The rules seem to have changed since I played in the 80s. It's a penalty if you run behind a player.

That ref owed manly some square ups in the last 20. None came.

The boys showed tenacity in defence. But fmd possession is king. Btw I'd be worried if we only won by 8 with that much ball.

 

[Simonmyers11]

For mine, it is our play the ball speed coming out of defense. You speed this up, dummy half plays the ball to a short ball runner, you're playing against a retreating defense (see Parra today).

This means the defensive line is constantly back tracking (and what frustrates me no end with Taufua, because he does the hard stuff metreage wise, but the slow play the balls allows a defensive line to set).

Also, I stated this before the game started. While it's great to have strength in the forwards (ours has plenty), you need a mountain of mobility, and that's something we lack (Dogs have a similar pack to ours, but Des got away with it, because they also became ball players - for a while).

Defensive structures and ruck control can counter strong forwards. You just can't coach against speed. Speed conquers all if you can control the ball.

Even Tommy has a very slow play the ball. Wintertsteins is slow. Myles is STILL getting up from being tackled today.

Manly constantly play against a set defense. Other teams create plays that allow to play against a retreating defense. Toovey used to focus on "metres after impact". A lot of our boys go into the fetal position (Nate Myles) after being tackled. Again - allows the opposition defense to become set.

But you know what controls all of that? Fitness. You have to be damned fit, and be full of energy to pop up, create a very fast play the ball to a dummy half, who passes to an up-tempo, mobile forward continuing the roll.

I agree with Ryan but i dont think its fitness. Its just some players have more mungrel and fight and can take an impact and stand straight up. Marty does it well and players like jason Talmalomo.

I agree we take to long to play the ball at times. Dont think its fitness though, we were all over parra at the end after doing all the tackling and no possession.

 

[HK_Eagle]

For mine, it is our play the ball speed coming out of defense. You speed this up, dummy half plays the ball to a short ball runner, you're playing against a retreating defense (see Parra today).

This means the defensive line is constantly back tracking (and what frustrates me no end with Taufua, because he does the hard stuff metreage wise, but the slow play the balls allows a defensive line to set).

Also, I stated this before the game started. While it's great to have strength in the forwards (ours has plenty), you need a mountain of mobility, and that's something we lack (Dogs have a similar pack to ours, but Des got away with it, because they also became ball players - for a while).

Defensive structures and ruck control can counter strong forwards. You just can't coach against speed. Speed conquers all if you can control the ball.

Even Tommy has a very slow play the ball. Wintertsteins is slow. Myles is STILL getting up from being tackled today.

Manly constantly play against a set defense. Other teams create plays that allow to play against a retreating defense. Toovey used to focus on "metres after impact". A lot of our boys go into the fetal position (Nate Myles) after being tackled. Again - allows the opposition defense to become set.

But you know what controls all of that? Fitness. You have to be damned fit, and be full of energy to pop up, create a very fast play the ball to a dummy half, who passes to an up-tempo, mobile forward continuing the roll.

I've notice an extra funky step from Tafua when he plays the ball. It's like he gets up with a certain left right habitual leg pattern, but it's opposite to what he is comfortable with in playing the ball. So he often switches his feet to then play the ball, which takes some extra time.

 

[Snake]

I am inclined to agree with Chip...there is a lack of any discernible plan. We defend well and are certainly aggressive but we need better structure in attack. We look like we make it up as we go.

You hear a lot of coaches talk about letting their stars play what is in front of them but really the talent of natural footballers still shines through when the structure is there to support it. Tom can still use his natural athleticism and instincts but the structure is there to put him a position to use it.

 

[Top End Eagle]

Didn't help that Radradra smacked Kelly on the jaw from behind and made him drop the ball. Some crap decisions. Also watching the nine coverage didn't like seeing Fitler ten metres from the huddle after a try scored bad mouthing the team saying they did this all last year. Seriously WTF?

 

[Eagles4Life]

All factors applied today. Mostly "b" and "c" though.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Where's @Technical Coach when you need him ?