2025

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LeonardCohen

Bencher
Now that the season is done, naturally our thoughts turn to next year and our chances of improving and competing with the big sides.

I’m interested to hear what people think might be the pieces of the puzzle we require to challenge for a premiership.

From where I sit, I think there’s a common weakness in the games we lose and that’s our ruck defence. I’m less concerned with what happens when we have the ball. It would still be nice to make more inroads with the ball but it’s less concerning than the roll on the opposition get when they have the ball.

I don’t see the issue as a tactical concern or a matter of effort. I feel the individual players in the forward pack are simply not mobile and fast enough to play with the kind of defensive energy required to manage the better packs. We started with great intent last night, as we did against the Sharks at Brookie. Trouble is, there’s a pattern of it lasting about 25-30 mins before we lose the arm wrestle.

Our pack (especially the middles including Jake) are too slow. We can’t train them to be faster than their physiology allows. For this reason, I feel that until there is significant turn over of individuals in our middle rotation, we will continue to fall short. We just re-signed Brown, Aloiai, and Paseka 😞 and we’ve got Jake on big coin.

Finally, I do also believe we should swap Garrick and Talau. However, I also feel that middles who control the opposition ruck, help prevent the edges from being exposed.
 
There are three non-negotiables for 2025

1. Jake is no longer a 13 and has to be in the prop rotation.

Who replaces him at lock? I'm not going to throw outside names out there, but internally can one of Bully, Croker, Navale, or Jazz Tevaga step up and play here?

2. Croker is no longer our 9.

I still see him having a role in the 17 but we need to move on from him as our starting 9. Simpkins to get first shot here.

3. Garrick to wing

We have enough options in the backline to work out who plays center (Talau or Hoppa), but Garrick back to the wing, please.
 
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Big off-season for Navale and Burbo. Given the constraints Manly has imposed on itself with those re-signings you mention there isn't much scope for increasing forward mobility but a breakout season by Caleb and another year's development by Ben would help.
Can we afford RCG? I'm sure someone is doing some calculations.
 
Caleb Navale looks like the modern prototype middle we need to play some 1st grade.
Quick PTB, good leg speed.

More minutes for Bully would also assist here.

Jake cannot play 13 next season. Rotating prop for 60 minutes.

Not sure what Simpkin did to drop down the pecking order, but we looked quicker with him at 9.

Seems to me, we mostly have the pieces at the club already, just not using them as best as we could overall.
 
My "expert" recommendations as follows:

  • Garrick to wing or goneski!
  • Talau to centre
  • lehi has to be in the team (at worst case on the bench) as he should be taking the #1 in a few years time
  • if lodge is not re-signed - we need another hard nosed prop
  • desperately need a specialist left second rower
  • if Jake continues to play 13 then he needs to share more minutes with maybe browney
  • replace aloai with sipley & save us some cash!
  • play simpkin off the bench as a minimum or sign a genuine #9
 
It's ironic that such an emphasis is put on so-called connectivity among the playing group yet at season's end hard decisions need to be made about breaking up the group and trying to move some on! Tricky balancing act no doubt.
We do seem to have a surfeit of quality backs and a deficit up front, maybe something can be done there!
 
The big item I am watching this off season is DCE’s potential retirement. He is contracted until the end of 2025, so I am expecting a 12 month extension or he calls time to give us an opportunity to plan for life after DCE.

In terms of positional and team changes, I think they have been well canvassed on here. There is improvement left in this squad, but it certainly needs to be supplemented.
 
It's ironic that such an emphasis is put on so-called connectivity among the playing group yet at season's end hard decisions need to be made about breaking up the group and trying to move some on! Tricky balancing act no doubt.
Totally!

Leadership is not as easy as some would like to make out (not just sport, but in all aspects of life).
 
Now that the season is done, naturally our thoughts turn to next year and our chances of improving and competing with the big sides.

I’m interested to hear what people think might be the pieces of the puzzle we require to challenge for a premiership.

From where I sit, I think there’s a common weakness in the games we lose and that’s our ruck defence. I’m less concerned with what happens when we have the ball. It would still be nice to make more inroads with the ball but it’s less concerning than the roll on the opposition get when they have the ball.

I don’t see the issue as a tactical concern or a matter of effort. I feel the individual players in the forward pack are simply not mobile and fast enough to play with the kind of defensive energy required to manage the better packs. We started with great intent last night, as we did against the Sharks at Brookie. Trouble is, there’s a pattern of it lasting about 25-30 mins before we lose the arm wrestle.

Our pack (especially the middles including Jake) are too slow. We can’t train them to be faster than their physiology allows. For this reason, I feel that until there is significant turn over of individuals in our middle rotation, we will continue to fall short. We just re-signed Brown, Aloiai, and Paseka 😞 and we’ve got Jake on big coin.

Finally, I do also believe we should swap Garrick and Talau. However, I also feel that middles who control the opposition ruck, help prevent the edges from being exposed.

Good thread Leonard and very timely. There is no doubt in my mind that our single biggest issue is the lack of aggression and mobility of our middle forwards. That's where we continually loose the ruck. This issue is now compounded by the fact that we have just recently extended the contracts of Taniela and Josh. So what I would be doing IMMEDIATELT TODAY would be to find whatever cap space I need to find and signing up RCG. He is our missing piece and would naturally fit in as our pack leader and would complement the other two guys. Brown and Bully would then further complement these guys and I think move up a gear or two. Haumole is Haumole and needs no changes.....just a nice well earned holiday in the off season.

Jake and Croker are the other two obvious forward issues to be addressed. Jake seriously overpaid and underwhelming in attack to the point of almost not first grade standard. I think he and his manager need to have a discussion with Seibold and Mestrov re his value...and future. Croker also seriously underwhelming in attack but no contract issue here so easier to fix the problem. Would not surprise to see him retire in the off season given reported medical issues.
 
Unpopular opinion, Garrick was 100% concussed last night, and prior to that I thought he was playing well for the backend of the season. He is a centre in my eyes. DCE causes half of his problems.

If I had to name a lineup for next year, I'd name this, with a few changing variables.

1. Turbo
2. Saab
3. Koula
4. Garrick
5. Talau / Hopoate if he bulks up
6. Brooks
7. DCE
8. Paseka
9. Croker - on his last chances in my eyes
10. Aloiai, but at 100% and not busted like he's been lately. Alternatively RCG, if we can get him. Bye Lodge.
11. Olakau'atu
12. Ben - if he bulks up. He needs speed or power. He hasn't got either at the moment. If he can't improve, we need to sign someone.
13. Jake - limited minutes. Should be playing 60 or less.

The bench is where I probably differ from most:
14. Simpkin - non-negotiable
15. Bullemor
16. Navale
17. Brown / Waddell, Brown ended the season poorly.

Sipley is not mobile enough. Aloiai not at 100% is not mobile enough. I'm pretty sure Tevaga is not mobile enough.

The team needs to be changed for the opposition. Against smaller packs, larger middles. Against bigger packs, more mobile middles, to help our defence. We smashed the Dragons with a smaller pack. We dominated the Dogs with larger middles, but not many packs are like the Dogs.

I'd take scrambling defence over run metres any day. With Simpkin, the forwards improve off his service. Simpkin coming on with the rest of that bench would be an injection that would make up for the loss of Paseka.

Later in the season I'd love to see Laiafi get an opportunity.

P.S. I think Bullemor might bulk up more in the off-season. Would help his impact.
 
The big item I am watching this off season is DCE’s potential retirement. He is contracted until the end of 2025, so I am expecting a 12 month extension or he calls time to give us an opportunity to plan for life after DCE.

In terms of positional and team changes, I think they have been well canvassed on here. There is improvement left in this squad, but it certainly needs to be supplemented.
I think he will take a really reduced contract but the nrl will likely stand in his way. He may stay a couple more years until someone really special comes off contract.
 
Jake to prop rotation.

Simpkins to hooker or #14 to spell Croker.

Garrick to wing.

Talau to centre.

Hoppa HAS to be in the backline somewhere, his resilience & creativity is needed out there. He’ll put on some weight in the offseason & will be even better next year.

Don’t know what to do about Lodge, if we can sign someone like RCG, let Lodge go - he’s too injury prone & inconsistent IMO.

What happened with Sipley this year? He was coming on in leaps & bounds last year then got injured earlier this season & has hardly been seen in first grade since. I hope he can recover fully from what the issue is & fire up for a big season in 2025.
 
Jake to prop rotation.

Simpkins to hooker or #14 to spell Croker.

Garrick to wing.

Talau to centre.

Hoppa HAS to be in the backline somewhere, his resilience & creativity is needed out there. He’ll put on some weight in the offseason & will be even better next year.

Don’t know what to do about Lodge, if we can sign someone like RCG, let Lodge go - he’s too injury prone & inconsistent IMO.

What happened with Sipley this year? He was coming on in leaps & bounds last year then got injured earlier this season & has hardly been seen in first grade since. I hope he can recover fully from what the issue is & fire up for a big season in 2025.
You are right - for 4 games Sipley played at a career peak and looked even a starting first grade prop.
 
Our backs are fine, especially when you consider how infrequently our forward pack dominates (or even matches) the opposition. Speed and mongrel in the forwards is what we lack. We have a forward pack that doesnt intimidate and is inconsistent. Who has the mongrel of Liam martin? The futures of Sipley, Aloiai, Croker, jake should all be under review.
 
Unpopular opinion, Garrick was 100% concussed last night, and prior to that I thought he was playing well for the backend of the season. He is a centre in my eyes. DCE causes half of his problems.

If I had to name a lineup for next year, I'd name this, with a few changing variables.

1. Turbo
2. Saab
3. Koula
4. Garrick
5. Talau / Hopoate if he bulks up
6. Brooks
7. DCE
8. Paseka
9. Croker - on his last chances in my eyes
10. Aloiai, but at 100% and not busted like he's been lately. Alternatively RCG, if we can get him. Bye Lodge.
11. Olakau'atu
12. Ben - if he bulks up. He needs speed or power. He hasn't got either at the moment. If he can't improve, we need to sign someone.
13. Jake - limited minutes. Should be playing 60 or less.

The bench is where I probably differ from most:
14. Simpkin - non-negotiable
15. Bullemor
16. Navale
17. Brown / Waddell, Brown ended the season poorly.

Sipley is not mobile enough. Aloiai not at 100% is not mobile enough. I'm pretty sure Tevaga is not mobile enough.

The team needs to be changed for the opposition. Against smaller packs, larger middles. Against bigger packs, more mobile middles, to help our defence. We smashed the Dragons with a smaller pack. We dominated the Dogs with larger middles, but not many packs are like the Dogs.

I'd take scrambling defence over run metres any day. With Simpkin, the forwards improve off his service. Simpkin coming on with the rest of that bench would be an injection that would make up for the loss of Paseka.

Later in the season I'd love to see Laiafi get an opportunity.

P.S. I think Bullemor might bulk up more in the off-season. Would help his impact.
It was interesting the first game against the dogs Eagles deffinetly dominated the middles but the second game was a different story and seemed to handle them quite well despite being far smaller. Not sure exactly what Ciraldos defensive specifics are but Manly could deffinetly benefit with a changing roster and more mobility. Lehi Hopoate deffinetly needs to beef up more, I’ve always followed Manlys games whilst not a fan as a lifelong local resident and I think they need to change up between being so heavily reliant on DCE/Turbo. The stigma that if Turbo isn’t playing the team goes to **** is not productive
 
Jake to prop rotation.

Simpkins to hooker or #14 to spell Croker.

Garrick to wing.

Talau to centre.

Hoppa HAS to be in the backline somewhere, his resilience & creativity is needed out there. He’ll put on some weight in the offseason & will be even better next year.

Don’t know what to do about Lodge, if we can sign someone like RCG, let Lodge go - he’s too injury prone & inconsistent IMO.

What happened with Sipley this year? He was coming on in leaps & bounds last year then got injured earlier this season & has hardly been seen in first grade since. I hope he can recover fully from what the issue is & fire up for a big season in 2025.
Let’s be real, young Hoppa can be the other half of Turbo.
 
It was interesting the first game against the dogs Eagles deffinetly dominated the middles but the second game was a different story and seemed to handle them quite well despite being far smaller. Not sure exactly what Ciraldos defensive specifics are but Manly could deffinetly benefit with a changing roster and more mobility. Lehi Hopoate deffinetly needs to beef up more, I’ve always followed Manlys games whilst not a fan as a lifelong local resident and I think they need to change up between being so heavily reliant on DCE/Turbo. The stigma that if Turbo isn’t playing the team goes to **** is not productive
The Dogs have the lean, fast, high energy approach to defence. They can suffocate teams with line speed and scramble well to prevent tries. They fall short imin their spine players being a tier below the top teams.

We have the opposite problem. Our pack doesn’t control the ruck and we play off the back foot but have the class players to jag points and stay in the contest.
 
Going on my obs this year..
I think our backs are good,would swap Garrick to wing and have Koula and Talau in centres and Lehi to bench,he is good enough but want him to develop a bit more for me and don't want to overload a kid.
Forwards for me and this is on currently contracted players(Tevaga I am assuming is a done deal)
Paseka
Simpkin
Jake(reduced minutes)
Ola
Tevaga
Brown
-----------
Lehi(back obviously)
Navale
Bullemor
Sipley
Would have had Aloiai a month ago over Sipley and would probably tell Croker to go from 92kgs to 98kgs and compete with Tevaga for the edge spot,maybe even take Sipley spot on bench ...
 
Going on my obs this year..
I think our backs are good,would swap Garrick to wing and have Koula and Talau in centres and Lehi to bench,he is good enough but want him to develop a bit more for me and don't want to overload a kid.
Forwards for me and this is on currently contracted players(Tevaga I am assuming is a done deal)
Paseka
Simpkin
Jake(reduced minutes)
Ola
Tevaga
Brown
-----------
Lehi(back obviously)
Navale
Bullemor
Sipley
Would have had Aloiai a month ago over Sipley and would probably tell Croker to go from 92kgs to 98kgs and compete with Tevaga for the edge spot,maybe even take Sipley spot on bench ...
Unfortunately that roster won't finish any higher in 2025 than it did this season. Tevega is surely not a permanent second rower. Al is not worthy of a permanent spot in our 17.
Sadly, unless we recruit two more good forwards we won't be serious contenders.
 

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