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There is a God

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by ManlyBacker, Aug 29, 2008.

  1. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

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    Thought I would beat Tookey to this one. I guess as a bureaucrat it is easier to look for order in things.

    Cosmos order proves God exists: Rudd

    Prime Minister Kevin Rudd says the ordered nature of the cosmos convinces him of the existence of God.

    Mr Rudd, a regularly practising Anglican, was on Friday asked on Fairfax Radio in Brisbane to give his single biggest argument in favour of the existence of God.

    "As you know I'm a believer and I've never pretended not to be and I respect those who have no religious belief - it's a free country," Mr Rudd said.

    "For me, it's ultimately the order of the cosmos or what I describe as the creation.

    "You can't simply have, in my own judgment, creation simply being a random event because it is so inherently ordered, and the fact that the natural environment is being ordered where it can properly coexist over time.

    "If you were simply reducing that to mathematically probabilities I've got to say it probably wouldn't have happened.

    "So I think there is an intelligent mind at work."

    Mr Rudd said in his entire political life he had never been asked in a media interview to prove the existence of God.

    "You ... have a world first," Mr Rudd said.
     
  2. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Is that his best argument........Rudd needs his own Karma system that would be a big karma minus for me :)

    Ordered?...yeah right, take that argument in front of a biologist, or any real scientist really (Gronk stay out of it) :)
     
  3. The Gronk

    The Gronk Well-Known Member

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    True about order - the second law of thermodynamics states that over time disorder will always increase - glasses break all the time, but you dont see broken shards of glass spontaneously assembling into a schooner glass. 

    But even as disorder increases across the entire system it is totally fine for the opposite to happen in smaller amounts.  Thats how evolution happens. 

    But he is right about mathematical probabilities - change the strength of gravity by one part in 30 billion and stars and planets do not exist........
     
  4. Fro

    Fro Well-Known Member

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    Round and round the mulberry bush, the monkey chased the weasel.
     
  5. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Sure but what about dark matter and all that "newish" theory that is questioning the mathematics of gravity?
     
  6. The Gronk

    The Gronk Well-Known Member

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    Well dark matter follows the same laws of gravity -its just heaps more dense.  I really hope it turns out to be space ship fuel like in Futurama. 

    The detailed maths of gravity won't be finalised until physicists observe the Higg's boson and a graviton. 

    But if I drop Steve Menzies headgear in a vacuum it is always going to accelerate at 9.8 metres per second per second. 
     
  7. Fro

    Fro Well-Known Member

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    pop goes the weasel weasel
     
  8. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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      Dan was prepared to live with 50 billion I believe.
     
  9. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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      Dan was prepared to live with 50 billion I believe.
    [/quote]

    of course because in perspective it's actuall a fairly good bet matas.

    How many assumed planets are there?

    even a 50 billion to 1 chance means that there is 1 in 50 billion that it will happen! If there are say 200 billion planets that means there is 4 planets at a minimum the same as earth with life on it.

    Just because a chance is small doesn't make it impossible! Your problem mata is that you are unable to think beyond the boundaries of the planet you live on. To you the universe contains the Earth, the Sun, the moon an some sparkly things on a black background!

    I am sure your head doesn't fathom the actual size of the Earth, the distance to the sun and the size of just our solar system, let alone the entire Universe.

    With the size of the universe as we know it, a 50 billion chance is actuall a pretty safe bet
     
  10. fLIP

    fLIP UFO Hunter

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    My health has improved 10 fold since i started to pray. I know it can be put down as a coincidence but i like to think the overnight like improvements that i have had are not just a case of uncanny timing.
     
  11. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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      Dan was prepared to live with 50 billion I believe.
    [/quote]

    of course because in perspective it's actuall a fairly good bet matas.

    How many assumed planets are there?

    even a 50 billion to 1 chance means that there is 1 in 50 billion that it will happen! If there are say 200 billion planets that means there is 4 planets at a minimum the same as earth with life on it.

    Just because a chance is small doesn't make it impossible! Your problem mata is that you are unable to think beyond the boundaries of the planet you live on. To you the universe contains the Earth, the Sun, the moon an some sparkly things on a black background!

    I am sure your head doesn't fathom the actual size of the Earth, the distance to the sun and the size of just our solar system, let alone the entire Universe.

    With the size of the universe as we know it, a 50 billion chance is actuall a pretty safe bet
    [/quote]  Actually, it might be you don't give enough credence to the ripple effect of one galaxy versus another etc.  You speak of 50 billion "planets" yet it is quite clear earth alone is "part" of a solar sytstem and then a galaxy.  And likely other galaxies have a gravitational pull on ours.

    So you shouldn't talk of 50 billion "planets".  You should speak of 50 billion independant systems (whatever that system may be because science is yet to determine the full extent of our current system, let alone any others). 
     
  12. clontaago

    clontaago Well-Known Member

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    Flip, what about the people who pray and are killed in their 20's? Why doesnt praying work for them?

    We all have to die one day and its not "god" who decides when that is.
     
  13. fLIP

    fLIP UFO Hunter

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    Yeah thats a fair call.
     
  14. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    Let's put it another way - Dan is satisfied there have been 50 billion big bangs (outside of his bedroom)?
     
  15. Fro

    Fro Well-Known Member

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    Can you prove it isn't Doug?

    And before you ask, no I can't prove that it is, but I don't need to, thats where the faith aspect comes into it and that is what flip is going on. He believes without needing to have it proven to him.

    And no i don't believe that God determines when we all live and die, there are too many other factors involved, most notables being the choices peole make. Doesn't mean I don't believe in god.
     
  16. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    Is fro joining in our dance around the mulberry bush???
     
  17. Fro

    Fro Well-Known Member

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    Not a chance Matas, I am not likely to waste my time with closed minds :)

    Just felt like backing Flips comment.
     
  18. clontaago

    clontaago Well-Known Member

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    Of course I cant. The last line is my belief.

    My point is that Flip has some belief that his health is improving due to him praying.

    If it is, are Flips answered prayers denying a 5 year old year old childs prayers somewhere in the world?

    After all, people like Mata will have you believe that not everyones prayes can be answered (just like in the movie Bruce Almighty as Mata so hilariously compared it to).

    So why would Flips prayers be answered over those of a dying child?

    It just makes no sense. Mata cant believe the odds of 50 billion to one but he can quite happily accept that "God" answers random prayers without a logical reason.
     
  19. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    No I can happily accept the concept of free choice and the consequences of a fallen world. 
     
  20. The Gronk

    The Gronk Well-Known Member

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    I just want to see those sportsmen who thank god every time they win to come out and say they are pissed off with him when they lose. 
     

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