The Mad scientists finest creation

[Not Paul Kent]

Something I’ve observed about our attack this season is that it has two distinct characteristics that combine Des’ two best previous attacking structures.

Sure everyone has made the comparisons 2011 DCE and Foran flying on the back of a couple of pretty talented and a ball playing edge back rower.

The other more subtle comparison I see that has basically taken that recipe from ‘11 and taken it to another level is a more compact version of the ball playing forwards strategy that James Graham took the Bulldogs to the grand final in 2014.

The short interchange of passes and playing at the line from Jake, Walks and Marty isolates defenders in the middle and creates fast play the balls which in the modern game just creates so much time and space for our outside backs.

Des and the Canterbury attack copped plenty of criticism at the end of Des’ Dog days and everyone assumed the tactic was on the scrap heap for good.

The mad professor has refined the approach and combined it with the sweeping backline shifts, shapes and all the variations that have snake and the gifts finger prints all over them.

the result is the mad scientists greatest creation.

 

[40 years an eagle]

Maybe more his greatest reincarnation.

 

[Shoe1]

It is attack from all over the field. The only time it hasn't worked is when the team goes sideways too early, before the defence is on the back foot.

 

[ManlyArmy]

Paul Kent put it perfectly last night in that Des towards the end of his Bulldogs stint tried to overplay his hand in coaching attack, where as at Manly now, he's allowing our attacking options to play eyes up footy.

Our halves are the same as 2011 but we're playing a totally different style of attack.

 

[master blaster]

Paul Kent put it perfectly last night in that Des towards the end of his Bulldogs stint tried to overplay his hand in coaching attack, where as at Manly now, he's allowing our attacking options to play eyes up footy.

Our halves are the same as 2011 but we're playing a totally different style of attack.

Yes he wasnt impressed with the reporter who said that you have gone back to 2011 days, he wasnt happy when he said that

 

[Terry Zarsoff]

Yes he wasnt impressed with the reporter who said that you have gone back to 2011 days, he wasnt happy when he said that

They don’t like it up ‘em, those Fezzy Dezzies.

 

[eaglebuzz]

Paul Kent put it perfectly last night in that Des towards the end of his Bulldogs stint tried to overplay his hand in coaching attack, where as at Manly now, he's allowing our attacking options to play eyes up footy.

Our halves are the same as 2011 but we're playing a totally different style of attack.

You could see that Des was overcoaching the attack because Lichaa went from being one of the best hooker prospects to a total dud, but then right at the end of his contract he played his own game a bit more and looked fantastic.

I heard in an interview over the weekend, I forget where, that Des is focusing more on coaching the defense and it's actually Chad Randall working with the players on the attack?

 

[Shoe1]

People blame Des for Lichaa's failure to kick on. Maybe there is more to it, talent is one thing, but attitude counts for a lot.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

You could see that Des was overcoaching the attack because Lichaa went from being one of the best hooker prospects to a total dud, but then right at the end of his contract he played his own game a bit more and looked fantastic.

Funny section of Liccha's page on wikipedia:
2017 - In February 2017, Lichaa was selected in Canterbury's 2017 NRL Auckland Nines squad.[31] Towards the end of the season, Lichaa was struggling with form and was told by Des Hasler he was unwanted for next season until Hasler was terminated as Canterbury coach shortly thereafter. Lichaa said to Fox Sports “I got farewelled with three games to go and something clicked in my head and I went out and played my own game, “I think I finished the year showing the type of player that I am, and hopefully come round one, through to round 26 and the finals that’s the player I am, I was lucky enough Deano came on board and I had a relationship with him before. I’m really grateful to still be at the club".[32]

2018 - On 2 May 2018, Lichaa was dropped by new Canterbury coach Dean Pay after struggling for form.

 

[Technical Coach]

Paul Kent put it perfectly last night in that Des towards the end of his Bulldogs stint tried to overplay his hand in coaching attack, where as at Manly now, he's allowing our attacking options to play eyes up footy.

Our halves are the same as 2011 but we're playing a totally different style of attack.

It's not totally different as Manly back in those days did spread the ball early to generate go forward through our back row and centres and the forwards did pass a little in terms of second man plays.

Back in those days our front row was weak and didn't generate much go forward, Matai and Watmough were more effective in that regard. Playing laterally helped keep the defense on their heals for less dominant tackles and isolating defenders, also working over the middle to tire forwards by moving the ball around so when we did hit the middle it wasn't as tightly defended.

Manly now offer a more sharp instinctive version of the above with faster players in all positions , stronger front row and skill around the park for greater attacking variety----more dangerous now also with the faster tempo of the game.

Manly would be even better if we had a dummy half with the crisp direct long lateral delivery of Ballin so we can hit the edges even quicker. Croker is not great in that area nor is Fainu but at least Croker is showing Ballin like defensive effort that helps take the load off our fatigued larger sized forwards when in the grind.

 

[eaglebuzz]

It's not totally different as Manly back in those days did spread the ball early to generate go forward through our back row and centres and the forwards did pass a little in terms of second man plays.

Back in those days our front row was weak and didn't generate much go forward, Matai and Watmough were more effective in that regard. Playing laterally helped keep the defense on their heals for less dominant tackles and isolating defenders, also working over the middle to tire forwards by moving the ball around so when we did hit the middle it wasn't as tightly defended.

Manly now offer a more sharp instinctive version of the above with faster players in all positions , stronger front row and skill around the park for greater attacking variety----more dangerous now also with the faster tempo of the game.

Manly would be even better if we had a dummy half with the crisp direct long lateral delivery of Ballin so we can hit the edges even quicker. Croker is not great in that area nor is Fainu but at least Croker is showing Ballin like defensive effort that helps take the load off our fatigued larger sized forwards when in the grind.

What Fainu adds that Croker doesn't is that heads up threat around the ruck. He is so good at pinching 15+ metres on a big scoot and that can then turn into a break if Tommy or DCE back up for the pass. I miss having him in the 17.

 

[MightyEagles]

People blame Des for Lichaa's failure to kick on. Maybe there is more to it, talent is one thing, but attitude counts for a lot.

Maybe he had to keep 1 eye on his Mrs

 

[Kevinward777]

Something I’ve observed about our attack this season is that it has two distinct characteristics that combine Des’ two best previous attacking structures.

Sure everyone has made the comparisons 2011 DCE and Foran flying on the back of a couple of pretty talented and a ball playing edge back rower.

The other more subtle comparison I see that has basically taken that recipe from ‘11 and taken it to another level is a more compact version of the ball playing forwards strategy that James Graham took the Bulldogs to the grand final in 2014.

The short interchange of passes and playing at the line from Jake, Walks and Marty isolates defenders in the middle and creates fast play the balls which in the modern game just creates so much time and space for our outside backs.

Des and the Canterbury attack copped plenty of criticism at the end of Des’ Dog days and everyone assumed the tactic was on the scrap heap for good.

The mad professor has refined the approach and combined it with the sweeping backline shifts, shapes and all the variations that have snake and the gifts finger prints all over them.

the result is the mad scientists greatest creation.

Good post - great avatar.

 

[Dee Why Eagle]

You could see that Des was overcoaching the attack because Lichaa went from being one of the best hooker prospects to a total dud, but then right at the end of his contract he played his own game a bit more and looked fantastic.

I heard in an interview over the weekend, I forget where, that Des is focusing more on coaching the defense and it's actually Chad Randall working with the players on the attack?

Where is Licha now?

 

[Technical Coach]

What Fainu adds that Croker doesn't is that heads up threat around the ruck. He is so good at pinching 15+ metres on a big scoot and that can then turn into a break if Tommy or DCE back up for the pass. I miss having him in the 17.

I'm sure it is not going to be too hard to find a youthful heads up player in the future.

With the pace of the game today and our large pack we need a hooker who can defend and has a high work rate as naturally with a bigger squad fatigue will set in very quickly especially during momentum swings.

Fainu's heads up play will bring in more points and penetrating attack around the ruck but wont be enough to compensate for his average defensive qualities.

As i've stated many times over the past two years Manly can get by with a defensive hooker once we add enough overall attacking variety-----Manly's attacking issues and poor performances from the past had zero to do with Levi or Api.

Do i wish we had a better passer from dummy half with Fainu like probing around the ruck qualities or extra speed like Cook----yes, but it hasn't been my biggest concern over the past few years that is for sure.

Yes we do lack that spark from dummy half that can break open an arm wrestle but in saying that if Manly is in an arm wrestle game it probably means our attack is having an off night or like the Melb game the pressure of playing the best induced unforced errors.

 

[Waz13]

Where is Licha now?

Last I heard he was blowing up at that Elliot bloke from the pound for hooking up with his mrs!

 

[eaglebuzz]

I'm sure it is not going to be too hard to find a youthful heads up player in the future.

With the pace of the game today and our large pack we need a hooker who can defend and has a high work rate as naturally with a bigger squad fatigue will set in very quickly especially during momentum swings.

Fainu's heads up play will bring in more points and penetrating attack around the ruck but wont be enough to compensate for his average defensive qualities.

As i've stated many times over the past two years Manly can get by with a defensive hooker once we add enough overall attacking variety-----Manly's attacking issues and poor performances from the past had zero to do with Levi or Api.

Do i wish we had a better passer from dummy half with Fainu like probing around the ruck qualities or extra speed like Cook----yes, but it hasn't been my biggest concern over the past few years that is for sure.

Yes we do lack that spark from dummy half that can break open an arm wrestle but in saying that if Manly is in an arm wrestle game it probably means our attack is having an off night or like the Melb game the pressure of playing the best induced unforced errors.

From that point of view you keep Croker as the starting 9 and have Fainu on the bench.

 

[eaglebuzz]

Where is Licha now?

Canterbury cup. Nowhere.

Didn't kick on after getting a second chance under Pay. As others have said I don't think his heart was really in it, he certainly had the talent to continue as a very good first grade hooker.

 

[Eagles4Life]

I'm sure it is not going to be too hard to find a youthful heads up player in the future.

With the pace of the game today and our large pack we need a hooker who can defend and has a high work rate as naturally with a bigger squad fatigue will set in very quickly especially during momentum swings.

Fainu's heads up play will bring in more points and penetrating attack around the ruck but wont be enough to compensate for his average defensive qualities.

As i've stated many times over the past two years Manly can get by with a defensive hooker once we add enough overall attacking variety-----Manly's attacking issues and poor performances from the past had zero to do with Levi or Api.

Do i wish we had a better passer from dummy half with Fainu like probing around the ruck qualities or extra speed like Cook----yes, but it hasn't been my biggest concern over the past few years that is for sure.

Yes we do lack that spark from dummy half that can break open an arm wrestle but in saying that if Manly is in an arm wrestle game it probably means our attack is having an off night or like the Melb game the pressure of playing the best induced unforced errors.

How much more "overall attacking variety" do we really need? It seems to me that we have strike all over the park right now. Arguably, we are already the best attacking team in the NRL.
I think Croker is doing an awesome job as a defensive hooker. His attack stats are pretty good as well. If we get Fainu back that's a bonus, but it won't happen until round 16 next year. Assuming the case isn't delayed again.
We already have Lawton and Cust in the squad for 2022, so I think our depth in the hooker position is looking pretty good, even without Fainu.
So yes your probably right, looking for a younger Fainu-like hooker is something that Scott Fulton is already doing, or has already found for us for the future. Right now I think we are pretty well covered.

 

[davohan123]