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Settle some debates

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Dan, May 26, 2012.

  1. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Ok so the debate among manly fans here that needs clearing.

    Beaver, would you call him a lock?
    Would you prefer Glenn or Brett?
    Would we have won last year with Boyd instead of Brett?

    Is there a difference between lock and backrow?
     
  2. StuBoot

    StuBoot Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Free range back rower - not confined to either side of the ruck.
    Brett - the greatest strike rate of any current player (that have played more than a season).
    On last years form, maybe.
    The role has been somewhat blurred over the years- depends on the coach & their team structure.
     
  3. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Traditionally a lock has been the clean up man, cover defender, but also more a ball player/runner than a second rower. Not sure that definition still applies in the modern game with its fixation on left and right positioning. I don't think there is much difference between lock and second row these days. Maybe your lock has a few more ball skills, in our case this is true.

    Beaver occassionally wore the 13, not to say he didn't have the skill set to perform the role. His defence was probably as close to any of the classic locks of yester year. You'd probably call him a wide running backrower.

    Picking between Glenn and Brett is like picking between beer and rum, or choosing your favourite sibling. Both of them are great players in their respective spots.

    Not a big Darius Boyd fan TBH, so that's a no for me. Sorry just reread your original post. Would we have won with Darius instead of Brett ? I don't think Brett was a really pivotal irreplaceable part of our success last year, so I think Boyd would have had sufficient skills to enable us to have gone all the way.
     
  4. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member Administrator 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Just for full disclosure here are my answers

    1 - not a lock more a wide running backrower
    2 - hard to choose. With Lyon in the team Glenn probably marginally gets the nod. Otherwise Brett.
    2 - no not at all Brett won us games both with individual tries and defense.
    4 - lock is a distinct role and for mind coaches play the differently but it also depends on available players. A lock these days is more of a ball playing role as back rowers are generally hole runners.
     
  5. eagleE

    eagleE Active Member

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    Beaver was neither a lock or centre. He was a second rower that could also cover other positions.

    Don't even want to consider choosing between snake and gift.

    Yes we would have won with Boyd in the team last year. We were too strong for everybody right across the field.

    Not much difference in too many positions. Gallen can play lock 2nd row or prop. Guys like watmough and gift can play 3-4 positions. Most teams just need a balance of large, medium and small guys and it doesn't where you put them. Snake always packs in at lock when they feed anyway.
     
  6. Top End Eagle

    Top End Eagle Well-Known Member

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    From what I have seen from Manly lately the bloke with 13 on his back is the one doing clean up work - first back after the centre/wing hits it up from dummy half after fullback/winger first run after opposition kick.

    L Williamson, Watmough, G stewart before we realised he could do so much more.

    As numbers I think they are all interchangeable but generally you have a left and right edge back-rower then the bloke who defends more aggressively or with a better eye to what is about to unfold (as opposed to the one on one decision making) at thirteen.

    Feliti Mateo is famously reported as being given the 13 jumper by Michael Hagan (rather than the 6 or interchange jumper he would traditionallyvhave received) because he thought he played better in that number.

    So Beaver - second rower all the way - compare his style to an Owen Cunningham.

    Sometimes there are three gifted attacking players in the same back row (like we currently have at full strength) eg. Gartner Menzies and Kosef and a coach will appease them by starting the 'worker' on the bench - but look for that player (Rodney L Williamson) to be started in most of the big games despite the number on their back.

    To me Ash harrison/ Corey Parker are classic locks out of the Junior Pearce, Fatty Vautin, Bob Lindner, Brad Clyde, Brad MacKay, Billy Moore, Colin Vandervaught, Owen Cunningham mould - but this stems from a no longer applied 'centre a side' defence.

    Jim Dymock, Glenn Stewart, Paul Langmack - and any of the countless other ball playing locks who grew too big to be five-eighth but were too skillful to waste in the grunt only role that lock used to entail.

    It all depends on the make up of the team - a Steve Carter/Travis Burns type five-eighth lends itself to a Gavin Miller/Jim Dymock type lock or second row.

    A maestro like Cliffy Lyons creates a freak attacking weapon like Beaver which allows a freak defensive weapon like Innes - so if this hasn't cleared things up - different strokes for different folks(clubs).

    And Gift with a fully firing Boyd we win last year - only if Boyd is his biological brother. Stewarts don't stewart without being 'Stewarts'. We have all seen that.
     
  7. Napper

    Napper Well-Known Member

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    Ok so the debate among manly fans here that needs clearing.

    Beaver, would you call him a lock? Yes

    Would you prefer Glenn or Brett? Cannot choose

    Would we have won last year with Boyd instead of Brett? No

    Is there a difference between lock and backrow? Depends on the team. In our case Choc is more of a lock this year than Glenn as he's not stuck to the right side only.

    [hr]
    A lock is a "free running backrower" as someone stated and in the past were noted cover defenders and ball players. Current Manly lock(if it were the classic 20+ yrs ago) - Watmough. Glenn stewart is a right edge 2nd rower with ball playing skills.

    Positions these days are nothing like 20yrs ago.

    8 Myles
    9. Buhrer
    10 Gallen
    11. Thaiday
    12. Choc
    13. Glenn.

    Theres a solid pack made of 2nd rowers.

    Look at halfback/ 5/8. They're just right and left side halves now.
     
  8. eagles2win

    eagles2win Well-Known Member

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    A lock provides the link between the forwards and the backs and Glen does it better then most


    ---
    I am here: http://tapatalk.com/map.php?jmojer
     
  9. EagleRock40

    EagleRock40 Well-Known Member

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    Beaver, would you call him a lock? - He was an edge player with great ball playing ability. 2nd row not lock.
    Would you prefer Glenn or Brett? - Can't split them, theyre a package.
    Would we have won last year with Boyd instead of Brett? - No

    Is there a difference between lock and backrow? - In 90% of teams yes there is a difference. Backrow (11 & 12) tend to be 'edge' players playing one side of the field each. Lock is normally the better ball player of the 3, and has a roaming role.
     
  10. globaleagle

    globaleagle Où est mon chapeau Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    What? No 'mass' debates jokes? We all growing up? For shame.
     
  11. voicefromthehill

    voicefromthehill Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    Beaver - I think redefined the role of a second rower, I liked the term used earlier "free range". But always a second rower to me

    Glenn or Brett? - Gee a tough one, I think Glenn is still on the way up, and Brett reached his zenith a few years back. That is not to say he is still not a brilliant match winning player. The game against Canberra a few weeks back re-affirmed his brilliance and what he does for the team, defensively we are poorer without him. Offensively we are poorer without Glenn, yes Brett scores tries but Glenn can get our attack moving to create the opportunity. Brett in a tight one as defence wins matches..

    Boyd would have filled the role last year and we still would have won (would have hated to see him there though)

    Difference between lock and backrow - yes as already pointed out
     
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  12. The Eagle

    The Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Beaver-utility
    Snake-for defensive organisation
    Yes-but not as easily
    Depends on the team, we have 2 locks (T Rex and Gifty)
     

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