Hypothetical

[Peter C]

What if we were to wind the clock back before the start of this season, and let's say all of our players were off contract, how many would be targetted by other clubs?.
I would say DCE,Foran,and Tom T, possibly Buhrer because of work rate and utility value as a forward, possibly Hiku, utility value as a back,perhaps Jake T, Gutho, and maybe Jayden Hodges and Taufua
Stewart, Matai Lyon and Ballin have age and/or chronic injury against them for someone to offer a long term deal, as for all the rest I would say that no other club would be seriously interested in them.
And I suppose therein lies our problem, when it was time to fill a departure, we filled it with a discard from another club, we haven't bought an established up and coming first grade player in years, we bought Chee-Kam, Hiku and Sao from the Holden Cup , Chee-Kam has not lived up to expectations, Hiku hasn't disappointed, but we are probably paying him more than his worth as the Warriors were circling after his first year here.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I suppose therein lies our problem, when it was time to fill a departure, we filled it with a discard from another club, we haven't bought an established up and coming first grade player in years

We couldn't afford to, we had a star-studded line-up that had our cap bursting at the seams.

The club has attempted (rationally, in my view) to deal with the fact a solid core of senior players are all going to finish around the same time. Tough calls on Kite and Gift were part of that.

It's hardly a surprise that this has been shown to be a very difficult transition to manage. I am not in the camp of those who claim conspiracy/cancer/incompetence.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

And name the last 3 major signings who were true First Graders at the time.

Kite
Lyon
Orford

The last one of those almost 10 years ago.

Only Melbourne has sort of done the same thing, Hoffman went away for a year and then came back so not sure if that counts .

Look at Souths, Look at Roosters, even look at the Sharks / Panthers, all have bought established players , we never did.

We just allowed a small group of players to become bigger than the club.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

We just allowed a small group of players to become bigger than the club

But did we? This is the popular line, and I don't doubt that the bond between some players may have ended up surpassing the bond they felt with the rest of the club, but what could the club do about that other than what it has done? Let players go.

 

[Beer buzzard]

Mason and burgess are established first graders, but before that, probably Lyon. Somehow parra seem to buy an established first grader every week. It is time for us to pick up some GOOD established first graders for a change and not the run of the millers.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Mason and burgess are established first graders, but before that, probably Lyon. Somehow parra seem to buy an established first grader every week. It is time for us to pick up some GOOD established first graders for a change and not the run of the millers.

I won't bother editing my post but want I meant were top quality first graders.

For example Penrith just picked up Merrin, probably paid too much but I would suggest he's a top quality forward.

David Gower was a first grader at many clubs but I wouldn't count him as a valuable pick up at the time.

 

[JenEagle]

Surely we are going to announce some signings soon.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

But did we? This is the popular line, and I don't doubt that the bond between some players may have ended up surpassing the bond they felt with the rest of the club, but what could the club do about that other than what it has done? Let players go.

Popular line or not, every club has their " Leadership Group", and popular line or not when did our season 2014 start to derail??

When it was decided by the recruitment team ( 2V included) not to offer Gifty a contract.

The " Leadership Group" led by Watmough / Stewart (B) / Matai / Foran then took it upon themselves to destabilise the club, it may have taken six months but they got their Karma didn't they??

So may well be " the popular line" but see if you can convince me that this isn't pretty close to the truth.

 

[Disco]

Without wanting to be rude, this thread is ridiculous

There would be multiple clubs interested in

Stewart, Taufua, Gutherson, Hiku, T Trbojevic Lyon, Matai, Foran, DCE, Buhrer, Ballin J Trbojevic

Whilst the following would also have no problem getting a gig elsewhere

Starling, lui, JSL, Sao, Blair, Symonds, Horo, Burgess and Mateo

Mason probably wouldn't due to age, Wolfman might get an EPL gig, whilst guys like Williame and Vave might struggle

3 points on the above

1) Our team didn't become bad players overnight, Hiku, because of utility value??? the guy is the current NZ fullback and other clubs would be lining up
2) Not every squad is filled with superstars, Antonio Kaufusi, Heath Le Strange, George Rose, Dylan Farrell, Adam Quinlan all got deals last year and there are tonnes more like them
3) It all comes down to value, Mateo on the open market at 400k might not get any offers but if his manager was shopping him around at 150k i bet half a dozen clubs would chase him

 

[Peter C]

Without wanting to be rude, this thread is ridiculous

There would be multiple clubs interested in

Stewart, Taufua, Gutherson, Hiku, T Trbojevic Lyon, Matai, Foran, DCE, Buhrer, Ballin J Trbojevic

Whilst the following would also have no problem getting a gig elsewhere

Starling, lui, JSL, Sao, Blair, Symonds, Horo, Burgess and Mateo

Mason probably wouldn't due to age, Wolfman might get an EPL gig, whilst guys like Williame and Vave might struggle

3 points on the above

1) Our team didn't become bad players overnight, Hiku, because of utility value??? the guy is the current NZ fullback and other clubs would be lining up
2) Not every squad is filled with superstars, Antonio Kaufusi, Heath Le Strange, George Rose, Dylan Farrell, Adam Quinlan all got deals last year and there are tonnes more like them
3) It all comes down to value, Mateo on the open market at 400k might not get any offers but if his manager was shopping him around at 150k i bet half a dozen clubs would chase him

Not ridiculous disco, as I mentioned, there would be interest from other clubs for
those players you mentioned, especially Lyon, Stewart and Matai, but it all depends on the type and length of the contract, as for Starling, lui, JSL, Sao, Blair, Symonds, Horo, Burgess and Mateo, sure there would be interest from other clubs for their services as individuals, but we have them here collectively, and our performance shows.
Put the Roosters pack on the market and every club will be after all of them.

 

[Andrew..]

Perhaps we've invested in cheaper tried and true players from other teams JSL, Horo, Symonds and Burgess when it might have been wiser to recruit youth instead. I see all these other teams having young players with so much potential and we are left with guys who were probably at the peak of their careers when we bought them.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

I see all these other teams having young players with so much potential and we are left with guys who were probably at the peak of their careers when we bought them.

And this, in hindsight , seems to be where we have failed.

It's all well and good to hang on to players and give them a final farewell at Brookie ( and I was there last year for Kingdog and yes it was wonderful) BUT in the ruthless modern era ,I think that's a thing of the past.

Older players will be moved on in favour of the latest young gun(s), who will stay for a while and move off.

This " rebuild " shouldn't happen every 10 years, in the modern era it needs to happen every year.

Unless of course you are all happy to have a bunch of aging stars, in their twilight years , just turning up.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Perhaps we've invested in cheaper tried and true players from other teams JSL, Horo, Symonds and Burgess when it might have been wiser to recruit youth instead

JSL was a youth signing. The other 3 were journeyman signings, which is another essential part of every club's recruitment.

We've bought plenty of young players in recent times, even ones like JWH, T Rex and Whare who have been and gone.

Other top shelf juniors we've imported include Chee Kam, Sao and Hiku, of which Chee Kam has yet to make his mark but the other 2 have.

In addition Rudolph and Satini were both highly regarded as 20s players, and Hodges was also an up and comer.

 

[Disco]

A poor run and suddenly everything about the club is in ruin

Hiku
Sao
Whare
JSL
Chee Kam

Where all "cherry picked" young guns

Every club signs a mixture of established stars, youngsters and blue chips some work out and some don't

Now I know the overwhelming urge is to look for someone to blame but the salary cap is designed for clubs to have a fall

You make the comparision to the Roosters but that was us 3 years ago, they eill have there fall soon enough

 

[lurker]

And this, in hindsight , seems to be where we have failed.

It's all well and good to hang on to players and give them a final farewell at Brookie ( and I was there last year for Kingdog and yes it was wonderful) BUT in the ruthless modern era ,I think that's a thing of the past.

Older players will be moved on in favour of the latest young gun(s), who will stay for a while and move off.

This " rebuild " shouldn't happen every 10 years, in the modern era it needs to happen every year.

Unless of course you are all happy to have a bunch of aging stars, in their twilight years , just turning up.

King retiring was two years overdue IMO. Didn't make the metres and was guaranteed to give away 1-2 penalties per game. That's part of the problem I think we stayed loyal to some of the wrong players. I have no problem letting go of everyone we have and potentially it should have happened sooner. Look how poor giftys attitude had become. he was complacent now hes had a dig and playing well but he wouldn't have done that if he stayed because he didn't have to prove himself.

Maybe it's because I follow NFL but so long as the player bleeds for the jersey I don't care who puts it on. Over there the sport is mercenary like and yet the passion that players talk about clubs with is phenomenal. If you bleed for us I'll respect you even if I don't care why you're bleeding for us.

Long deals mean players can take the foot off the gas. IMO the only guys that should be on long deals are the creative players or truly special talents. Everyone else max 3 years with exit options. We can learn a lot from the nfl in structuring contracts and building teams. Also we have dodged a bullet with dropmough

 

[Wombat64]

But did we? This is the popular line, and I don't doubt that the bond between some players may have ended up surpassing the bond they felt with the rest of the club, but what could the club do about that other than what it has done? Let players go.

With our again roster it was obvious that this was coming what was not so obvious was the speed and the massive size of the drop which has happened. I don't think anyone could have seen this year. For whatever reason the club did not prepare for this at all. We haven't bought anyone decent in years and the players we have bought have been discards from other clubs Some of these players did OK when they were paying with strong senior player group but now without that support they are really showing their real class.

With all the back ended contracts, ageing roster and players coming off contract at the same time we are simple paying for the success we had for the last years. AS we have all said we need a total rebuild. We have a few players worth keeping but must shouldn't be wearing the maroon and white.

 

[Wombat64]

And this, in hindsight , seems to be where we have failed.

It's all well and good to hang on to players and give them a final farewell at Brookie ( and I was there last year for Kingdog and yes it was wonderful) BUT in the ruthless modern era ,I think that's a thing of the past.

Older players will be moved on in favour of the latest young gun(s), who will stay for a while and move off.

This " rebuild " shouldn't happen every 10 years, in the modern era it needs to happen every year.

Unless of course you are all happy to have a bunch of aging stars, in their twilight years , just turning up.

Bang on........ I was trying to write the same thing but you said it better.

 

[Canteen Worker]

We have been letting established first graders go to keep the ones we had, sacrificing depth to keep the majority of the side in order. Most of the new young players bought at bargain prices have not stepped up as yet. It takes time to blood young players and for them to adjust the demands and speed of first grade. That we have stayed near the top for 10 years is a miracle.