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Collingwood

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by susan, Apr 17, 2012.

  1. susan

    susan Well-Known Member

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    Collingwood have six top line players out atm and can't get out of their own way.One of the most dominant sides on Australias sporting landscape is struggling in a massive way.One reason-injuries.

    One of the biggest myths in the game is this garbage that losing big name players is not an excuse for struggling.Somehow channnel 9 and co will have us believe that young Skinner will fill Glens shoes or Harrison will simply take over where Rex left off.The coaches have to keep up appearances by not using it as an excuse but the way the current league commentariat seem to put the boot into a team regardless of the players they have lost is a joke.Souths got mecilessly criticised last year with an entire first grade pack sitting on the sidelines.

    They ramble on ad nauseum about the Storm yet every single person knows one injury to the big three and it is game over.We are supposed to believe that their great culture will get them through unlike everyone else.It is absolute bull****.

    The salary cap by its nature destroys depth. Any club loses players of the calibre we have is basically finished for the season if they dont return to the field.If they do come back our performances will reflect that returning class all things being equal.To be brutal we are a very ordinary side without our stars,with them we are very good.It is simple logic a child could understand and virtually unavoidable with a cap in place.You cant have this incredibly equal comp and great depth at the same time.

    Our inconsistent performances reflect our player losses and little else.The one positive out of such a player decimation is that shows very clearly what parts of the roster need to be worked on in a thoughtful manner.It is painfully obvious we need a new prop rotation and some backrow strike looking forward,a difficult task when you are playing current players who have won two premierships and want to be paid as such.
     
  2. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    I don't know why they ramble on about the Storm and their "culture of success". Three spoons and a world record Grand Final flogging over the past five years is hardly commendable.

    There are parallels with Collingwood and us. They are also coming to terms with a new coach and their "succession" is not looking brilliant seeing as Malthouse uses every turn in front of the microphone to criticise Buckley and his ex players. Hasler is not afforded that opportunity as he's still in the coaching game.
     
  3. clontaago

    clontaago Well-Known Member

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    You obviously dont watch AFL enough to comment accurately.

    Collingwood were narrowly beaten by Hawthorn in Round 1 (the team predicted to win the comp)

    They won in round 2 against a side that will probably run 8-12th

    They were beaten by a rampaging Blues outfit that would have towelled up most sides and are joint favourites for the comp with Hawthorn.

    They did not get beaten by the 2 bottom positioned sides like we have!!! We have enough depth to beat sides like the Titans and Parramatta but were not mentally up for it.
     
  4. HappilyManly

    HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Your point is logical but doesn't explain the Penrith 30-0 win just 5 night's prior. Nor the Warriors' defeat when Matai and Glenn were mainly off the field and Manly were barely out of an Airport.

    Not only was it the same Team on Saturday as the previous Monday, but some of the Player's filling in were playing in new positions for the very first time on that Monday. By Saturday, we assumed that the new formation was stable enough to go on winnig. :s

    IMO, its the mental side that's not being addressed.
    Losing to Cronulla, Parra and the Titans showed Manly's assumption that a win was guaranteed, based upon the Oppositions lack of success.

    Every game should be played with the application to detail and the points will follow. The Opposition is irrelevant, its what Manly do that contribute to their defeat and makes the Opposing Team look successfull.

    But, we are still only one win out of the top 4 :angel:
     
  5. Thehill

    Thehill Active Member

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    You also have to remember that the disparity between teams in the AFL is far greater than NRL so Manly losing to a bottom 2 team is like getting beaten by an 8-12 team in the AFL.

    Comparing Parra/Titans with Suns/Giants is unfair.
     
  6. DSM5

    DSM5 Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    You have a fair point Susan. You can't just replace 'class' players with club players and expect the same output/result. However the display on Saturday night was particularly awful, and can't just be put down to the absence of some top players. Our other class players ran across field, put balls down, let high balls bounce and generally played with little enthusiasm. It could be put down to tiredness, I hope so. That will be seen when we play the Dogs with more vigor and determination and come away with the win..Eagles by 10
     
  7. clontaago

    clontaago Well-Known Member

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    Granted.

    The point still stands however as im comparing Parra/Titans with Richmond/Bulldogs etc. Teams that Collingwood will still beat regardless of players out.
     
  8. Thehill

    Thehill Active Member

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    True! Attitude was Manly's problem on Sat night and against Parra...
     
  9. Ralphie

    Ralphie Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Partly true, however don't forget we still missed 30+ tackles in the games we won.

    IT'S THE DEFENSIVE PATTERN!!!!

    Defence wins competitions and we were great last season. This season we have been poor even when we had the stars in the team.
     
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  10. DSM5

    DSM5 Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    It's also about line speed in our defense which is attitude I guess. I watched the Parra v Flake game yesterday in which Parra were unlucky to lose. They obviously had the plan to get off their line quickly to negate the Flakes' big forwards and it nearly worked. Only poor handling robbed them of a win. Our games against the Slime, Flake and Tits demonstrated a slow movement off the line. The Tits forwards were hitting us as we stood and waited, hense they were able to bend us back and get quick ptbs. Tiredness perhaps? I'd like to think we will have this fixed by the Dogs game and begin to dominate the ruck like seasons past.
     
  11. PJ

    PJ Well-Known Member

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    Comparing the NRL to AFL is like comparing apples to oranges...although clearly one is a much better game and other is run alot better.
    When are we going to get a fulltime NRL channel on Foxtel???? I hope this gets negotiated in the new television deal- although I highly doubt it.
    In my opinion Carlton would have beaten Collingwood last Friday regardless of the Pies injured players. Nathan Buckley is a tosser and it surprises me his oversized head fits through the dressing room door...
    The only thing Manly has in common with Collingwood is we are both hated...atleast MOST of our supporters have two eyes (and a full set of teeth)
     
  12. torana355

    torana355 Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I have to disagree. We have the roster (even without the 4 players out) to beat Parra and the Titans so it has to be an attitude problem. That being said having regular players out will cause issues in defense as the players have not played together for long and this is really showing. Our defense has been poor and getting those players back will go a long way to fixing that issue.
     
  13. susan

    susan Well-Known Member

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    My point is we are really weak in regard to our forward depth and as my previous threads suggest i dont put much faith,if any, in our second string forwards.Many on here do think they are up to it while i simply see 5 or 6 blokes who were the nucleus of a pack who got the spoon in NSW cup!We then expect these same blokes to tame NRL packs.I put little credence in the Penrith result as they were almost as injured as us and woeful.It is rididculous to think we will compete at all without our big 4.I tipped us to get beat in all the games we lost except Titans and only thought we would win that because the Titans were a mess mentally.Their side on paper was streets ahead of ours.




    What I do put a lot of faith in is our first stringers and our results will improve markedly with their return.If we continue to get plundered by injury we will not make the eight,we havent got the depth.Pretty simple really.

    Clon.as for your comment re not knowing AFL i sat through On the couch last night listening to Sheehan,Healy and Riccuto(reasonably sensible commentators) saying you cant possibly cover their injury losses adequately and compete against the best.They spoke ad nauseum about how it kills all clubs chances.Roos said the same thing the week before.Sheehan tipped them to miss the eight without those players.There a fifty articles in every newspaper going on about their 3 ACL injuries etc so dont tell me it is not a factor.It is not just the injuries themselves it is the confidence effect across a club.

    As Mata said a lot of parallels can be drawn with our club.
     
  14. clontaago

    clontaago Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I was a bit harsh with my comment, the point i was trying to make is that Collingwood will still beat the battlers even with their injuries.

    We arent, we are struggling against lower sides which we shouldnt.

    Even with our injuries I believe we have a better roster than Parra and the Titans, yet for some reason we arent switched on.

    No doubt the injuries would kill us against the top flight clubs like Storm and Broncos, but it shouldnt have mattered against Parra and Titans.
     
  15. Masked Eagle

    Masked Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Narrowly? The Hawks smashed them!!!!! Take that Pie Flamers!!!!
     
  16. Koudini

    Koudini Member

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    The last 4 weeks has shown us just how crucial Glenn Stewart is to this team. He is our best player. Pure and simple. He provides that attacking prowess, and shores up our defensive line acting as a guard for DCE in the defensive line.

    As much as Skinner, Mauro, and Harrison are triers. They are not Glenn Stewart.

    As a reader but infrequent poster (but no lesser entitled to opinion), I'd have to question the clown who last week suggested that when our squad is back to full strength, it's the younger guys who deserve a start
    with our internationals having to earn their way back into the starting line up off the bench or in ressies.
     
  17. MK Eagle

    MK Eagle Well-Known Member

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    Hold the phone - the Manly teams vs Penrith & Titans were almost identicle yet the performance against Penrith was 40 points better??
    This is a fair case for attitude.
    Class players make a dif no doubt, but have to go with Eagle & Clontaago that the attitude has lost at least 2 games that should have been won.
    Every tackle with or without the ball is a win/lose battle & we are behind 75/25% in this crux area.
    Losing this key area hardly lays a platform for DCE or constructive flowing attack creating poor timing , poor passes & dropped ball.
    In defence when the opposition attack is creating a touch footy style play the ball it leads to poor communication & little chance of dominating the next tackle - ensuring missed tackles in a snowball effect.
    Thats why the timing is out in attack & that, more so than any pattern is why the defence line is staggered with holes like swiss cheese.
    The major importance of the stars returning is the influence on the rest, especially Gift who I feel has that BK influence as a leader regardless of not having as loud a voice - he leads with actions.
    Missing players is a legit excuse, but the effort of the 17 on the field has not been up to scratch which is not.
     
  18. clontaago

    clontaago Well-Known Member

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    4 goals is hardly a smashing. Now 10 goals, thats a smashing ha ha Go Blues.
     
  19. The Indian

    The Indian Well-Known Member

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    The other similarity between Manly and Collingwood is that both had long term successful coaches who were this year replaced ( one way or another ) by their assistants...and both assistants inherited tough jobs with political issues.

    I am not pushing the panic button yet - I have little doubt we can turn it around at some stage...just hope top 4 isnt already out of sight when we finally do. Maybey around the time T Rex is back.
     
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  20. susan

    susan Well-Known Member

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    I suppose that where I disagree Clon.I actually think the Titans have a much better roster than the team that played for Manly on Saturday.Prince,Bailey,Idris,Myles,Harrison,Bird ahave all played origin,Champion is a highly rated centre,the wingers give us trouble every game,Cesar has more potential than 3 Liam Forans and the young hooker is good.
    Parramatta with Hayne are a match for us minus our stars as well.They have beaten us a few times lately when we were at full strength(twice last year i think?)and Hayne kills us so it wasnt a great surprise for me.They also should have got the sharks last week.IMO Hayne is an out and out superstar and when he plays the eels are always some hope.

    As i said above ,why people think that the NSW Cup spoon pack will give us much is beyond me.I feel sorry for them,they try hard but are simply outclassed and week to week NRL is beyond them.
     
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