Best halfback

[mozgrame]

Was he the guy playing for Brisbane Norths some seasons ago ?

I don't think so, mate. Matty played under 16's for the Baralaba Panthers. This is back when I (I was our hooker) actually had to strike for the ball. Matty would dummy to feed the scrum, I would immediately start raking the opposition hookers legs/nuts while freeing up an arm for punching/face massaging. Then we'd put on a big push as Matty fed the scrum and bingo! We went two seasons without losing a scrum!! Good times.

Thank you for indulging me!

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

DCE may have more strings to his bow. But does that really mean he is entitled to stand in 2vs shadow just yet?

One captained his side to a GF victory.
One has not.

One immediately just invokes tough tougher nope the toughest.
The other hmmmm hmmmm not so much.

One at what about 16 years age. single handedly destroyed the might of the entire touring English test team.
Not sure the other has ever single handledly beat England.

For one, size wasn't an obstacle. How others thought about size is what made them weak. So he just didn't think like that. I cant help but think back to when David met Galioth. Toovey was up against Paul Huff at his prime. The Australian fullbacks Daddy Long Long legs just left everyone in his wake. Everyone but this little terrier who parted the seas to tackle Galioth that is. Toovs just chopping him in half at the ankles and the Giant come crashing down. Time after time. In Game after Game after Game.

Chez is a big body and saying he is close to if not the best defensive half in the game at the moment, probably isn't too far off. But I'd hardly say Chez plays above his weigh or uses his solid frame that well. He runs and tackles his heart out I'll give him that.

But I'd still argue Chez right now isn't half the defender 2v was. And I'm not being disrespectful to Chez's defence.

One is just a leader. I don't think too many people alive have the Aura that just makes you want to follow them, like Geoff does. He just makes you want to go to war for him.

Chez is captain. I still think Chez can be an Australian Captain one day. But I don't sense a natural leader all the same.

In my mind there running games in attack are on par.

For DCE to even be considered in the ball park with Geoff I want to see a captain leading his team to grand final glory, playing that organising, kicking, steering role. Steering his men.

I think DCE is only just getting comfortable as an organiser. He has been lost between wanting to be an ad lib runner or steering half for way too long.

Let's hope DCE adds to his case for best.

Totally agree - who would you rather have when the chips are down and toughness is needed and we need our half to lead us into battle? DCE is a great front runner and great if he has an organising 5/8th - a wonderful player but Tooves was great no matter who was around him or what the score. And if we needed someone to lift us with a bobbing run or a great tackle on a front rower - it was Tooves. DCE just does not offer any real hardness at all and as I said he needs things to be going his way - he is not an adversity type of player.

 

[mozgrame]

Nah...I can't cop that. DCE has won us some games over the years. In fact....if we had more players that could lift with him when things get tough, we probably would win more! Remember the win over the sharks? He didn't cave in golden point and kicked that field goal. What about the dogs game at Brookie? He was very good that night as well and took us out of the race for the spoon. Go back through his career and you will find many games that DCE has won us.

DCE is a hell of a lot tougher than people give him credit for. Physically and mentally! He'll stand by his mates through thick and thin and he'll have a real dig when things go sour. He's a tenacious player and hates losing. Don't let the smile and handshake after a loss fool you either. He's usually seething inside....still....he doesn't lay blame at anyone elses feet, but takes ownership for a team loss. All of those things add up to a great player and even better bloke in my book.

I'm not saying he's better than anyone else. Just giving him the respect he deserves.

 

[BOZO]

Toovey would have gone down as one , if not the greatest ever halfbacks if he possessed a kicking game . He only ever started to throw the odd grubber in late in his career ( 1996) gf. Still pound for pound the toughest 7s I've seen . Dce has the complete game ( nothing against Tooves) , he's tough , can kick , organize the complete half in my opinion. Its a tough one , tooves had a great 6 inside him most of his career as well without to many interuptions . Dce by a NECK...

Mate , for what Toovey lacked as a Kicker he more than made up for it with his Ticker .
Toughest halfback of all time . Tougher than most forwards .

 

[Shoe1]

Tooves had a decent kicking game, but bozo quickly realized that he was probably out best kick chaser. So cliffy did most of the kicking.

 

[HappilyManly]

Tooves had a decent kicking game, but bozo quickly realized that he was probably out best kick chaser. So cliffy did most of the kicking.

Thats such a trademark of Chez, he is usually the first there after he kicks the ball.
I'm always mystified why out winger/centres don't gallop up and help

 

[brad]

Mate , for what Toovey lacked as a Kicker he more than made up for it with his Ticker .
Toughest halfback of all time . Tougher than most forwards .

Yer I said he was one of the toughest 7s I've seen but just lacked the kicking skills . Still a brilliant little player and was lucky he had a great 6 inside him for years that did most of the kicking. Every Batman needs a Robin.

 

[Woodsie]

Thats such a trademark of Chez, he is usually the first there after he kicks the ball.
I'm always mystified why out winger/centres don't gallop up and help

It is a herding process in many set kicks ... it is the modern practice for many teams that the kicker (or first chaser in field) goes up quick on the open side to pen the kick returner on a short side for the winger and centre to collar .... I read that both DC and Green prided themselves on this play ....

 

[Walter Perolta]

In the thread about Snake, where much more knowledgeable folk than I were debating and comparing the virtues of Wombat v Snake, I think it was @Bearfax who said the greatness of Snake made people forget how awesome Wombat really was (I hope I’ve got that paraphrase correctly). He then went on to say that Johnny Gibbs was a gun and it is only because of Toovey that we forget about how good he was.

I am 35 y/o so have seen halves Toovey, Ox and DCE. On this forum, Toovey is rightfully a legend as he epitomises everything Manly is. However, if I was to rate Toovey and DCE side by side, DCE enters the discussion for Manly’s best ever half. Both won one premiership and the number of representative games for both is pretty equal.

So, if he is not there yet, what do you think DCE needs to do to be regarded as Manly’s greatest ever half or do you think it is a position he will never hold?

Dce ? No way.. we came 2nd last only because the eels were worse. Orford was better and you guys are comparing him to toovs LOL. I dont remember toovs kicking out when we were losing. Dce can be a good player but he needs great players like snake turbo Lyon gifty ballin helping him. He had turbo and green in 2017. Grrat year for him. 2018 no green... 2nd last dce as captain.

 

[lurker]

Nah...I can't cop that. DCE has won us some games over the years. In fact....if we had more players that could lift with him when things get tough, we probably would win more! Remember the win over the sharks? He didn't cave in golden point and kicked that field goal. What about the dogs game at Brookie? He was very good that night as well and took us out of the race for the spoon. Go back through his career and you will find many games that DCE has won us.

DCE is a hell of a lot tougher than people give him credit for. Physically and mentally! He'll stand by his mates through thick and thin and he'll have a real dig when things go sour. He's a tenacious player and hates losing. Don't let the smile and handshake after a loss fool you either. He's usually seething inside....still....he doesn't lay blame at anyone elses feet, but takes ownership for a team loss. All of those things add up to a great player and even better bloke in my book.

I'm not saying he's better than anyone else. Just giving him the respect he deserves.

I agree. I always think of the game against the warriors when he kicked two field goals to win the game. One off his left foot. He has done that so many times. Anyone that thinks he isn’t clutch is kidding themselves. He has 18 field goals. For perspective Cronk has 21 and has played 4-5 years longer and jimmy Maloney has 21 too. By the time he’s done I reckon he’ll have kicked more than any modern era player

 

[lurker]

Dce ? No way.. we came 2nd last only because the eels were worse. Orford was better and you guys are comparing him to toovs LOL. I dont remember toovs kicking out when we were losing. Dce can be a good player but he needs great players like snake turbo Lyon gifty ballin helping him. He had turbo and green in 2017. Grrat year for him. 2018 no green... 2nd last dce as captain.

And you don’t think the team of the 90s was stacked?

 

[Woodsie]

Haven't we been blessed with great halfbacks. My top 10 from those I have seen.

1. Toovey
2. DCE
3. Hasler
4. Ox
5. Blake
6. Gibbs
7. Mayes
8. Monaghan
9. Martin
10. Junee

I wonder if they have similar debates on the Eels forum;

1. Sterling
2-9. Daylight
10. Kolc??

No ... but that new young gun (Dylan sumfin) that they are heralding as the 47th coming of Stirlo suddenly became as nervous as a nun (or cat) in a cucumber patch ....

 

[Chip and Chase]

Old story of different eras diffrent style of players .. both outstanding .. DCE more talented but 2V a competitor and warrior .... you would pay to have DCE at half and 2V at hooker

Best ever ? .... Johnny Mayes would have to get a mention ..... 3 premierships in 3 years '73, '74' '75 ......

Mayes had impeccable timing, unlike Kevin Junee. Junee played for Easts in 72 when Manly beat them, he then went to Manly in '74 as a trade with Mayes.Easts then won the 74 and 75 premierships. He then left Manly in 76 to return to Easts only for us to win the premiership with Gary Stephens at half.

 

[HoldenV8]

Yer I said he was one of the toughest 7s I've seen but just lacked the kicking skills . Still a brilliant little player and was lucky he had a great 6 inside him for years that did most of the kicking. Every Batman needs a Robin.

Funny thing is that for the most part, well, from 1990-1996 at least, Cliffy was only our second option kicker. The job usually went to Matthew Ridge.

 

[Woodsie]

Mayes had impeccable timing, unlike Kevin Junee. Junee played for Easts in 72 when Manly beat them, he then went to Manly in '74 as a trade with Mayes.Easts then won the 74 and 75 premierships. He then left Manly in 76 to return to Easts only for us to win the premiership with Gary Stephens at half.

Mayes was the best backer-upperer through the middle I have ever seen .....

 

[HoldenV8]

Dce ? No way.. we came 2nd last only because the eels were worse. Orford was better and you guys are comparing him to toovs LOL. I dont remember toovs kicking out when we were losing. Dce can be a good player but he needs great players like snake turbo Lyon gifty ballin helping him. He had turbo and green in 2017. Grrat year for him. 2018 no green... 2nd last dce as captain.

Any half needs good players around them. How long did Thurston play at the Cows and got them nowhere before he finally got quality players around him? From 2008-2010 they finished 15th, 12th and 15th again. That's twice that the Cows came 2nd last with him as captain. And just about everyone is tipping Thurston as a future Immortal.

 

[brad]

Funny thing is that for the most part, well, from 1990-1996 at least, Cliffy was only our second option kicker. The job usually went to Matthew Ridge.

Yer we'll Tooves really didn't need to be the playmaker. Plenty of options .

 

[HoldenV8]

Yer we'll Tooves really didn't need to be the playmaker. Plenty of options .

Some may not agree, but I actually think Tooves was a better dummy half than he was a halfback.

 

[TWO DOGS]

Haven't we been blessed with great halfbacks. My top 10 from those I have seen.

1. Toovey
2. DCE
3. Hasler
4. Ox
5. Blake
6. Gibbs
7. Mayes
8. Monaghan
9. Martin
10. Junee

I wonder if they have similar debates on the Eels forum;

1. Sterling
2-9. Daylight
10. Kolc??

Gary Stevens the Pommy went pretty well for us. I don't disagree with your list - well done.

 

[brad]

Some may not agree, but I actually think Tooves was a better dummy half than he was a halfback.

He was a great little half that had a HoldenV8 engine , but also was a very good 9 . Passes hit the spot , defense around the ruck and was quick out of dummy half. Take him in either position.