Back 5

[Snake]

Interesting to read that Ennis lays some of the blame on the lack of punch from our back 5. They aren’t getting the sets off to a good start and that’s having a flow on effect to the forwards.

I’m sure there’s an element of truth in it but if the line speed in the middle from the forwards was better, teams wouldn’t be able to kick high and long and pin us in a corner and bash us. The first thing a winger should do off a kick is try and get the ball to the middle of the field so it can go left or right from the ruck. We can’t do that because Saab is getting hit the second he catches the ball. We need to make the opposition kick from deeper in their half to minimise this...that’s determined by line speed and aggression in defence.

Of course some better carries from the backs help, but they’re sitting ducks when the opposition is fresh, lined up and aware that the ball can only go one direction off the ruck.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

exactly what I said after the game... a huge issue on Saab's side because he doesn't bring the ball back with pace... he and Harper do not make any yards on carries... exactly why they are kicking to Saab ALL the time. I looked at the game again this week and my thoughts were absolutely confirmed.. if you check out Harper and Saab's carries they are flat out getting a metre over the advantage line on any carry from dummy half. the forwards absolutely are also to blame for their lack of aggression in defence... no line speed and total failure to bend the line with the exception of Paseka and Davey

 

[Kaufusi's Elbow]

Some of the blame must be laid at the feet of the back 5 .... some with the forwards, halves and reserves too... fmd. We will click soon and stop backpedalling and then watch the doomsayers go silent

I am reserving judgement until round 10.

 

[XV-1]

We have the slowest play the ball in the NRL.
Why?

 

[CRPSI eagle]

We will not make the 8 with this 5. If we change 3 we’ll make the 6.

 

[Snake]

Anyone keen to see Tuipulotu get a run? He is more in the Jorge mould and is aggressive when running in yardage.

Saab is probably safe due to being an aerial threat and his speed can turn half chances into tries. I really think we can do better than Harper though...Tui or Koula.

 

[Snake]

fmd.

I am reserving judgement until round 10.

Relax bro, we're just talking footy.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Anyone keen to see Tuipulotu get a run? He is more in the Jorge mould and is aggressive when running in yardage.

Saab is probably safe due to being an aerial threat and his speed can turn half chances into tries. I really think we can do better than Harper though...Tui or Koula.

Koula at the moment but I loved the physicality Tippytoes showed in the trials but also think Koula was tough and had a red hot go... don't think he will be overawed and might replace Harper very soon

 

[Eagle 1]

exactly what I said after the game... a huge issue on Saab's side because he doesn't bring the ball back with pace... he and Harper do not make any yards on carries... exactly why they are kicking to Saab ALL the time. I looked at the game again this week and my thoughts were absolutely confirmed.. if you check out Harper and Saab's carries they are flat out getting a metre over the advantage line on any carry from dummy half. the forwards absolutely are also to blame for their lack of aggression in defence... no line speed and total failure to bend the line with the exception of Paseka and Davey

Pin point kicks into the corners and ingoals will challenge anybody when making the tough metres. Things in Saabs favour.. height to defuse bombs and out leaps to score them, once in the clear it's try time, great combo with Tommy and DCE. I get what you're saying BT, he's down on confidence a bit, as is the team atm.

 

[Kaufusi's Elbow]

Relax bro, we're just talking footy.

Sorry Snake, wasn't directed at you ... or even the article. I just think the boys need a bit of time to click before the judgement begins. But yes, I love talking footy! Go Manly

 

[maxta]

Saab is a finisher and not a powerhouse ball carrier in traffic like To'o
I reckon Garrick has really improved and toughened up and been making strong ugly runs, so Saab is the obvious victim....especially when the follow up carry is often Harper who has been pummeled equally as Saab
Truth be known, 80% of outside backs would be copping a belting in the same situation, as our lack of go forward in the middle is gifting opposition attack prime field position, so following their attacking kick, Saab and Harper are confronting aggressive rush defence and the opposition coaches are rightly picking on the weaker carrying edge....though firmly believe it is due to the opposition owning the momentum and field position and this factor will be greatly reduced against teams that don't dictate terms....
These ineffective carries imo are more a net result of being dominated firstly up front than anything else

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

Pin point kicks into the corners and ingoals will challenge anybody when making the tough metres. Things in Saabs favour.. height to defuse bombs and out leaps to score them, once in the clear it's try time, great combo with Tommy and DCE. I get what you're saying BT, he's down on confidence a bit, as is the team atm.

he needs to bring it back with pace..... but not sure how he or Harper solve the issue of getting bashed at the ad line... they are just not solid enough and robust enough to take the hit and move forward/fall forward they are always being driven sideways or backwards... part of it comes from the forwards and others laying a better platform so that we are not being bombed on our own line but if you compare their carries to Parker and Garrick - they are chalk and cheese. Parker and Garrick take the ball into the line at pace and have a running style and body type to always always make metres. They rarely get stopped at the play the ball line... they at worst make a couple of metres but generally make it a very decent carry even off our line. Harper and Saab get ragdolled every tackle - just watch and see if they make their 10 metres or even 5 metres over the ad line every carry.... just about never. they get stopped for sero metres,,, the play the ball is slow because they were ragdolled and have tacklers peeling off and therefore the third runner's job is so much harder on the back of the first two rucks that went nowhere.

 

[nightster]

all of those plus we do not put any pressure on opposition kickers ...imho

 

[Waz13]

Some of the blame must be laid at the feet of the back 5 .... some with the forwards, halves and reserves too... fmd. We will click soon and stop backpedalling and then watch the doomsayers go silent

I am reserving judgement until round 10.

Round 10 is where you get a clear picture of how teams are truly traveling imo. This weekend is huge now as we really need a win. And there’s no excuses v the dogs.

 

[Waz13]

Anyone keen to see Tuipulotu get a run? He is more in the Jorge mould and is aggressive when running in yardage.

Saab is probably safe due to being an aerial threat and his speed can turn half chances into tries. I really think we can do better than Harper though...Tui or Koula.

Harper is the player I’d drop now. And yes replace with either Tui or Koula.

 

[Stewbojevic]

Burton’s high kicks are some of the best in the game… Saab could be in all sorts this weekend

 

[Waz13]

Burton’s high kicks are some of the best in the game… Saab could be in all sorts this weekend

I’m sure Des will be focusing on sold kick pressure on Burton this week. Agree tho there will be bombs going up. Good thing is our back 3 are pretty solid under the high ball. Just gotta work on getting outta the corners

 

[Tragic Eagle]

The upside has been Saab's catching the high ball under pressure. Height is a great advantage and he uses it well. I'm sure they are working on ways of getting out of the corners more effectively.

 

[maxta]

While on this topic, it brings up an area that really pi##es me off and in fact shows a key difference between Manly and those "top teams"
If you watch the hapless Saab or Harper getting driven back in a 3-4 man gang tackle- the Manly players watch and just casually wander back to position...
Against Melbourne, South's, Penrith and Roosters there were moments after a Manly kick and the opposition backs like Taffe, Stains, Tupou we're ambushed and snookered into a corner and hit in good contact and start getting driven backwards and all their mates rush in, getting in behind the player getting driven and don't allow their mate to get crushed, intimidated and show the intent "we are 1 and won't allow you to physically and mentally crush our team mate....and this would also help big time on that next Manly player's carry, as the defence only builds in hostility after being allowed to demoralise those blokes and are like rabid dogs feeding as they like while our team watches on...
It may seem a small thing, but it is exactly the type of issues Manly need to compete with better in these type of games and shows a difference in attitude between "us and them"

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Parker and Garrick take the ball into the line at pace and have a running style and body type to always always make metres. They rarely get stopped at the play the ball line... they at worst make a couple of metres but generally make it a very decent carry even off our line. Harper and Saab get ragdolled every tackle -

I think you are looking only at the 2 games this year? Where Saab and Harper's side has been seriously targeted by aggressive defences.

Saab's physique is deceptive, but he probably weighs as much as To'o and a number of times last year I saw him make decent metres on tough carries from our end. Not always, it's still a learning thing for him to use his speed as power. JAC does that very effectively on kick returns and he's much smaller (Billy Slater used to do that too, and he's really small)

Harper has decent footwork and also did OK plenty of times last year.

It's probably more a team problem rather than inadequate individuals.