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Attn Mata

Discussion in 'General Discussion Forum' started by Kiwi Eagle, May 28, 2010.

  1. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Big Rugby story over here at the moment I thought may be of interest to you

    PM criticises Andy Haden's racial quota claims


    ANDY HADEN: "Once they've recruited three, that's it. That's their ceiling. Three darkies, no more. In the Crusaders manual, there it is, it's enshrined in their articles and they've stuck by that. And they know damn well that that's the case. And it's worked."

    Prime Minister John Key has labelled Andy Haden's racial quota claims about New Zealand's most successful rugby franchise as "factually incorrect" and "offensive".

    The PM was questioned by media when in Auckland today about the growing controversy over former All Black Haden's claims that the Crusaders have a policy of limiting the number of Polynesian players in their teams to just three.

    Mr Key said Haden was meeting Sports Minister Murray McCully in Auckland this afternoon about Haden's role as an ambassador to next year's Rugby World Cup in New Zealand.

    He added that Haden's use of the word "darkies" to describe Polynesian players "was not alright".

    The PM said it was up to McCully and Haden to sort out a "pathway" forward. While he emphasised he didn't want to pre judge that meeting, he was clearly upset over Haden's remarks which were made on a sports show on national television on Wednesday night.

    "My view on that is that the comments are not only factually incorrect but they are also offensive," he said.

    Haden has been criticised for not being able to back up his claims with facts around players recruited and within the successful Crusaders environment.

    The Greens this morning added to the pressure for Haden to be sacked as a Rugby World Cup ambassador.

    Party sports spokesman Kevin Hague said Haden was a "poor choice" as an ambassador due to his involvement in the 1996 Cavaliers rebel tour of South Africa, and his comments on the Crusaders meant  McCully had no option but to remove him.

    "These ambassadors should be people we all respect and have pride in, and Andy Haden clearly doesn't meet that standard."

    ''Mr Haden’s latest unwise comments have created quite a stir but perhaps of equal concern is his attitude to the recent apology to Maori players.  Mr Haden regards the NZRU’s apology to Maori as 'a waste of time'.

    ''Giving everyone a fair go is one of the most basic values we hold as New Zealanders. How about replacing Haden with someone who exemplifies those values, like Graeme Mourie, who took a brave stand against racism, when people like Haden were condoning and profiting from it?"

    A Fairfax analysis of New Zealand's five Super Rugby franchises reveals that the Blues have 19 Pacific Islanders and one Maori in their ranks, the Chiefs nine Islanders and five Maori, the Hurricanes seven Islanders and four Maori and the Highlanders have four Islanders and one Maori.

    The Crusaders have three Pacific Islanders and four Maori players in their current squad. In past seasons, they have had higher numbers but most years have almost always had more players than the quota number claimed by Haden.
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    "BROWNING OF NZ RUGBY"

    The claims were made in a panel discussion by former All Black Andy Haden on The Deaker Show on Sky TV on Wednesday night. Other panel members were former All Black Chris Laidlaw and former Waikato and Springboks player Kevin Putt.

    The topic was "the browning of New Zealand rugby".

    Haden said "it [the topic] was not a big issue in Christchurch".

    "Once they've recruited three, that's it. That's their ceiling. Three darkies, no more.

    "In the Crusaders manual, there it is, it's enshrined in their articles and they've stuck by that. And they know damn well that that's the case. And it's worked."

    Haden stood by his comments on Radio New Zealand's Nine to Noon this morning but softened slightly, saying he was referring only to Polynesian players, not Maori.

    He said he had no doubt the Crusaders had the policy but admits he was overstating the case when he said it was written in stone.

    On Newstalk ZB, Haden said: "No, I don't regret it. I think it needs debating. Everyone gets very PC about this but the reality is the Crusaders have a different mix from everyone else and there's got to be a reason for that."

    He added his accusation was provoked by discussion on a chapter in Laidlaw's book in which the author examined the differences between the Crusaders and Hurricanes, who have a heavy Polynesian mix.

    "I'm aware that they have people in the franchise who have discussed this selection method, not including Polynesians, particularly across the academy," Haden told Newstalk ZB.

    "Whilst somewhat facetiously I said it was in writing and chiselled into tablets and brought in on horses in saddlebags before matches, that was taking a bit of light-hearted look at it.

    "But I know that subject is debated on a regular basis at the Crusaders."

    Haden said he stood by his "sources" from within the Crusaders organisation who had told him unbidden of the racial recruitment policy, but had no interest in revealing their identities.

    He said he only made the allegation because "I had discussed it with members of Crusaders franchise before".

    He said he would be prepared to swear in a court of law "that I have discussed that, and I didn't bring the subject up. It was volunteered to me by someone from the Crusaders franchise".

    CRUSADERS' REACTION

    Haden's comments have attracted dismay from current and former Crusaders-connected personnel.

    Current Crusaders' coach Todd Blackadder said he had been involved with the Crusaders a long time, and had never seen any evidence Haden was right.

    It was unfortunate the comments had been made because they brought the game into disrepute and hurt people and reputations, he said.

    Haden should front up on his source if he was making such wild claims, Blackadder said.

    The Crusaders team, beaten in the semifinals by the Bulls last weekend, included Pacific Islanders Kahn Fotuali'i, Robbie Fruean and Ti'i Paulo, as well as players with Maori ancestry - Dan Carter, Sean Maitland, Zac Guildford, Thomas Waldrom, Tim Bateman and Daniel Bowden.

    Two other prominent Maori players - Corey Flynn and Isaac Ross - were unavailable through injury.

    Steve Tew and Hamish Riach, the two chief executives who have guided the Crusaders over the past 15-years said yesterday they were bewildered by the claims.

    Riach was shocked by the allegation. "It's completely untrue and utterly bizarre." he said. "I don't know why he would say something like that.

    "It concerns me that such completely untrue claims are being made and I would expect that Andy would tell us who he's talking to here [in Christchurch] if the story is to go any further.

    "It is such a preposterous claim that it needs to stop right now."

    Asked if he would seek an apology, Riach said: "If he doesn't put up or shut up we will seek one, absolutely.

    Tew, speaking at a press conference after a board meeting of the New Zealand Rugby Union yesterday, gave an angry response to Haden's claims, describing them as "insulting".

    During his six years as the chief executive of the Crusaders, there was never any mention of race in any discussion about team selection, he said.

    "It was always picking players of the best ability."

    Riach said the franchise had nothing formal or informal about the race of rugby players in the Crusaders' selection processes.

    He said he had not bothered to look through the squads of recent years to count the number of Polynesian and Maori players.

    "I've done nothing like that. I'm not taking any notice of what the squad looks like.

    "This story shouldn't be about checking the race of players of the past because that gives the story some oxygen it doesn't deserve. There is no policy."

    At least 10 of this year's Crusaders squad contained players with Maori or Polynesian blood.

    Tew said he believed Haden's comments had no foundation and were inflammatory.

    "Given the person that is making the remarks, though, it does not surprise me."

    Haden remained unbowed about Tew's.

    "The only effect was to say I agree with what Laidlaw has written in his book, that there is a policy and obviously the Crusaders are different from others."

    Haden also said he felt no need to prove his accusations.

    "It goes as far as it's gone as far as I'm concerned," he said. "Why do I need to verify it? What I did was discuss the issue pretty openly…I absolutely stand by the discussion I've had with more than one person from that franchise about that subject."

    -By MARC HINTON, MICHAEL FOX, DUNCAN JOHNSTONE and MARTIN KAY of Stuff.co.nz, KEVIN TUTTY of The Press, along with additional material from NZPA.
     
  2. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    No racism in Crusaders' South African venture
    By DUNCAN JOHNSTONE - Stuff

    The Crusaders' controversial rugby academy system in South Africa goes out of its way to stress it is about talent rather than race.

    With Super Rugby's most successful franchise fighting off claims by All Blacks great Andy Haden of a racial quota system for imported players limited to three Polynesians each year, it's pertinent to look at its policy in the new academy programme it has initiated in South Africa.

    Cleary the Crusaders are happy to help the next Bryan Habana as much as they are to assist the next Victor Matfield.

    In their mission statement at www.crusadersacademy-sa.com they say their quest is "to provide the opportunity to the most talented, regardless of origin or background".

    The academy system itself has drawn criticism in South Africa with fears that the Crusaders are trying to poach talent, something disputed by the Kiwis.

    But there can certainly be no racial allegations held against the red and blacks for their new venture in a country noted for racial tension.

    The Crusaders have set up a partnership with a South African company that specialises in sporting academies.

    They have approached schools to participate in talent identification camps in Pretoria, Bloemfontein, Johannesburg, Cape Town, Port Elizabeth and Durban over the next week with the aim of finding 60 under-16 players to attend an all expenses paid camp in Pretoria from July 5-10.

    Crusaders coach Todd Blackadder is listed to oversee the camp and attendees are being tempted by the opportunity to press for post school ''opportunities in Christchurch'' according to its website.
     
  3. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    There's been mutterings in RL for several years too about players of colour and their respective ability.  Hopefully the Indigenous All Stars laid some of those fallacies to rest. 
     
  4. Cameron

    Cameron Cambo Premium Member

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    gees the cowboys would be screwed if the had to abide by that :)
     
  5. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    Lots of controversy about Ricky Januarie playing 9 for the Boks when he's a bench player in the Super 14. 
     
  6. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Am looking forward to tomorrow's night's test match Mata

    Have only watched 1-2 games of rugby this year so it is unusual for me. Won't be enough to stop me watching Manly live though, but I will record the test and watch it straight after the Manly game
     
  7. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    I love it how SA are complaining of judiciary bias now that their stomping and gouging etc has had a few players deservedly suspended.
     
  8. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    I don;t know why Bakkies Botha was in the side anyway.  Andres Becker is twice the player these days. 
     
  9. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Is he related to Boris??
     
  10. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, he emerged from a broom closet.
     
  11. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Jeez Mata, what has happened to your mob ? 3 weeks ago they seemend invincible, I did my dough on them last night !!
     
  12. Matabele

    Matabele Well-Known Member

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    They have 4 of their best players in storage, getting them right for the World Cup.  Du Preez is a big loss, as is Francois Steyne, and two of their best breakaways, Juan Smith and Brussow.  They lost their first 4 Tri-Nations games on the road in 2006 and won the WC the following year.  For mine the lack of Brussow is the key.  They need a ball hound openside who can protect our ball and force the turnover.  He's that man.
     
  13. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Will SA have a new coach by then???
     
  14. Guest

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    i dig the names of the SA players  bakkis botha, francios  pinnear.theres  more i just forgot i use to call  my dog francios  sometimes  ;D
     
  15. Guest

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    oh yeah ay jay fenter ..:D
     
  16. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    That should be a question for you mob CW ;)

    I must admit I am finding it bloody sweet that the All Blacks have a 7 match streak going over the Deans coached Wallabies. Deans is like a God where I live and Henry is hated so being a Henry supporter I am quite enjoying the run, funnily enough all the "Told you so" brigade after match 1 of Deans v Henry have been silent for the best part of 2 years now
     
  17. Canteen Worker

    Canteen Worker Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Kiwi, I remind you that the All Blacks are the best team in the World each four years for 1859 days (2 days short of four years) - basically only falling apart on World Cup Semi final day. It remains to see whether home ground advantage can get them over the line. Heck it is a long time since 1987 and I reckon we might have won that one too had we not had a fluke try scored by Serge Blanco against us.
     
  18. Mark from Brisbane

    Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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    It's very funny to watch the Blacks implode....I have been lucky enough to escort tour groups to the 95/99/2007 Wolrd Cups and have seen them do it three times.

    I only had tickets to one game in 2003, Australia-All Blacks at Suncorp.....ditto

    They are just like St Choke....it's now just what they do, and the mental side of it has become a noose around the necks seemingly for all time
     
  19. ManlyBacker

    ManlyBacker Winging it Staff Member

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    I still don't get Rugby and it bores me to tears at times. Still, tonight's Bledisloe match saw the Aussies implode and well done to the Kiwis for showing the flair to win it easily.
     
  20. Kiwi Eagle

    Kiwi Eagle Moderator Staff Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Is a nice day here at the moment, mid teens, but is expected to turn to **** sometime later tonight

    A big rugby day here, thousands are expected to go and watch Scummy Bill Williams club rugby debut today, I won't be going anywhere near the place !! I will head out and watch some Div 2 League, my old side, is normally a good watch with plenty of big island boys on the loose
     

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