1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

A couple of highly rated players I don't get

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by Enigma, Aug 26, 2016.

  1. Enigma

    Enigma Active Member

    235
    57
    Ratings:
    +198 / 8
    The title could be worded better but I did my best. Some players you hear the experts talk about and seem to have general rating as top notch but I don't quite see it when they run around. Jame Graham and Aiden Tolman come to mind as I watched them last night. It is clearly not a fair or direct comparison but I had a closer look at Taumalolo ( and I now regret picking a name I can't spell) because his play and behaviour is such a contrast to these two. Better judges than me regard Graham as one of the best forwards and Tolman of origin standard. I see Jason get the ball run hard ,defend well and do a great job as well as no dirty and at times pathetic dirty play from Graham and I've noticed Tolman debating with the ref constantly and Graham's well documented white hot rage at the refs. I can see Jasons great value and he shows me again you can win with dignity like a Beaver Menzies. I suppose closer to home Lewis comes to mind but also some players from the past like Michael Witt who was touted as an origin prospect before arrival. One thing that is pretty clear is that if you have halves who can't set up the play around them and have some timing and vision as well a running game then you need a hell of a lot to go right to win
     
  2. bob dylan

    bob dylan Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

    6,867
    2,030
    Junee
    Ratings:
    +4,409 / 130
    Graham has lost his good form. In fact it went in the week leading up to the 2014 GF.

    These days his runs are often across-field, turning his back as he gets to the line, and/or slowing down as he hits the line.

    I know one thing, I wouldn't swap Lussick or Taupau for him.

    Myles and Starling, well thats another story.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. robbiea

    robbiea Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

    2,326
    431
    Ratings:
    +1,603 / 65
    I will take Tuamalolo though !!
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  4. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

    12,810
    3,170
    Ratings:
    +6,282 / 44
    I may have misinterpreted your comparison, but in my mind most good judges would rate Lolo at least as highly (if not higher) as Graham and defo more highly than Tolman. His career is on the up, he's a consistent performer now and a deserved international player.

    By the way I've never heard of Aiden Tolman being seriously mentioned in SOO despatches, he's a solid enough performer week in and week out, but I don't know that anyone was throwing him up as an Origin candidate. He did well at the Storm, where players like him with narrow bands of responsibility tend to shine in their structured system, and he has been pretty consistent for the Dogs without being a game breaker/high impact type.

    My impression of James Graham is that he has been forced to temper his aggression and has become more measured on the field because of the biting controversy and the ref intimidation furore. That has lessened his impact.
     
  5. Enigma

    Enigma Active Member

    235
    57
    Ratings:
    +198 / 8
    To make it clearer, Jason is highly rated and I get it easilly, the other two I would not like them at Manly . I seem to recall a couple of CH9 commentators saying that Tolman should be considered for Origin. Toovey was a cranky person but I saw this evaporate and then wasn't shocked to hear of his demise a while later.
     
  6. rmd

    rmd Active Member

    263
    99
    Ratings:
    +176 / 8
    If I was Bozo and his recruitment team, I'd be chasing Coen Hess as he's only 20 and is going to be something special in the future. He has great footwork, is fast, is big (and still growing), runs good lines and is a good defender, but unfortunately the Cowboys have tied him up until 2018. I'd be happy to wait until 2019 but unfortunately I doubt he'd leave as he's a local North Queenslander (Mt Isa) however, funnier things have happened.
     
  7. The Who

    The Who Well-Known Member

    7,294
    2,228
    Mona Vale
    Ratings:
    +4,843 / 103
    I agree about Graham being overrated. I put Klemmer into that category.
    Unfortunately I also include one of our own, Dylan Walker. I can't believe he has represented Australia.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Enigma

    Enigma Active Member

    235
    57
    Ratings:
    +198 / 8
    I googled "Aiden Tolman State of Origin" to test my memory. He was or is more highly rated than you might think!
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

    12,810
    3,170
    Ratings:
    +6,282 / 44
    I did the same and the first result was "NRL Stars who will never play Origin" which listed one Mr A. Tolman @:) But further looking revealed that he did indeed make the emerging Blues squad this year, so quite clearly on the radar.....which is a surprise to me @:eek:
     
  10. Enigma

    Enigma Active Member

    235
    57
    Ratings:
    +198 / 8
    Sometimes a players best season is one of his first but his rating seems to follow him long after. At 21 Tolman got MOM for storm against the Rhinos and it sounds like he mauled them! I wouldn't believe it without a google search and was very close to playing for Oz they say.
     
  11. manlyfan76

    manlyfan76 Parra Trolls are the best. Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

    8,574
    2,434
    Anywhere but Parramatta
    Ratings:
    +5,361 / 111
    Big Jason T would be the first player I would buy.
    Sell the house. Sell the wife, sell the kids and buy him.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  12. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

    17,768
    1,418
    Ratings:
    +3,625 / 132
    Tolman and Graham play long minutes to balance the impact players like Kasiano and Klemmer

    Comparing a genuine impact lock to a high minute prop is silly.

    Jake, a high minute prop who has moved to lock is a better comparison is your are desperate for a lock to compare and his running metres are not as good as either Graham or Tolman.

    Taumololo should be compared to a Taupau or paasi type player.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Enigma

    Enigma Active Member

    235
    57
    Ratings:
    +198 / 8
    What is silly is your response to the thread. I am comparing the way players are rated not by their comparable position. You can compare players in all positions and decide who is the best player and award them a medal at the end of the year without being an idiot. You might be really outrageous and compare JT with Michael Ennis and conclude that JT is the better player despite completely different positions. I am not desperate to compare anything but I will declare that Jake T averages more metres per run than Tolman , hits harder than him, passes better than him and will play state of Origin and is a much better player. Tolman is a good player I just do not understand how he is in the running for SOO, yet I do understand how Jason plays for NZ . Is that such a hard thing to understand?
     
    • Dummy Spit Dummy Spit x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. Enigma

    Enigma Active Member

    235
    57
    Ratings:
    +198 / 8
    Maybe you should start a thread called "How to prove any point (in your own mind) with selective use of stats.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
    • Dummy Spit Dummy Spit x 1
  15. Fluffy

    Fluffy Well-Known Member

    17,768
    1,418
    Ratings:
    +3,625 / 132
    I could but it is easier to just add to your random ramblings on perceived views without fact to back up anything thread.

    You whine about stats use but use stupid comparisons of players in different positions to try and prove a perceived point.

    My "selective" use of stats still has infinity times more factual basis than your "gut feel" argument.

    I think you should change your user name to Dennis Denuto because its all about the vibe
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  16. Enigma

    Enigma Active Member

    235
    57
    Ratings:
    +198 / 8
    You have just said nothing champion. Try actually making a valid point instead of deciding everything you say is factual but my opinions or facts are silly. If you just want to quote mindless and lazy stats that prove nothing I suggest that you don't bother with me. I am not trying to prove a point but opening a discussion based on my opinion. Only a cretin would try and prove that their opinion is a fact. Why don't you actually respond to my last post instead of talking nonsense?
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  17. Enigma

    Enigma Active Member

    235
    57
    Ratings:
    +198 / 8
    Don't worry simple simon you will not be asked to judge the man of match award any time soon because it would be "stupid" to judge a winger against a front rower
     
  18. Harry Smith

    Harry Smith I think i'm actually a bloody Sea Eagle

    669
    219
    Ratings:
    +736 / 75
    Walker is only good in the centres and seeing him change position due to injuries as well as that infamous 5/8 shift has made him appear worse. In the centres though, Walker is lethal
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1

Share This Page