#9

[Snake]

Ok so Hastings and Lussick kept the middle as tight as API normally would and the only reason API gets picked each week is luck, not that he does a better job than the other two mentioned?

You're not making sense.

I have never said Api doesn't keep the middle tight, what I have said is that there was a multitude of factors in that game and when Api was in that situation last year with heaps of injuries things were not tight either so impossible to tell. I would have Api in my team every week but question his passing so will not write off Hastings to start after 1 single game where 9 players were out injured like you. I am from the Matt Ballin school of ball distribution and unfortunately for us Api is not even in the same hemisphere in this aspect, Hastings is, Cullen is not.

And using a 1 off game you could also argue that our middle was tight enough as none of the first half tries were scored in the middle, we leaked points on the edges.

Using your logic you are saying BJ, Sironen, Green have nothing to do with tightening up the middle nor 40 games of settling into the roll at the club.

with all due respect, you've missed the point. I never said the others missing didn't play a role and API's passing (good or bad) has nothing to do with missing him in defence. Also when the middle is not right, the edges compensate and are sucked in and the space opens up out wide...you hear coaches and post game discussions talk about this all the time.

It's pretty simple what I am saying; we missed API's defence...that's it.
If you don't agree, that's totally OK, it's your opinion, but I don't understand how you came to it. It has nothing to do with other players or circumstances from last year...

The question is did we miss API? I say yes. Were there other reasons we lost, I say yes. So I don't get your argument.

 

[Snake]

@Snake good thread and I think you've nailed it. I would also add that Parker going off for the first 10 mins/combined with Lane's 2 errors and a penalty, it was just a cluster of things go wrong. I was a fan of Lane after the 3 matches he played this year, but for mine, hes a bench forward at best.
Kapow has been really quiet last 3 weeks. He needs to lift and help Jake out. I think we are pretty desperate for a good (not even great) second rower. Anyone know what's the Billy Bainbridge situation? Or that fella from parra we bought... Something?!?! Frankenstein and Lane would have to be the weakest second rowers in the comp at the moment. Even Newcastle have us covered there

Totally agree with everything you said.

 

[Paw93]

I can just imagine the hysterical outrage had Baz named Joey to start .... the Cullen and hastings are the world's best players brigade would have been volcanic.

I've learnt to accept the fate of the silvertails forums. Sometimes you just may as well embrace it.

Sack Barrett!
Sack Bozo!
Sack DCE!
Bring back Des!

 

[Fluffy]

with all due respect, you've missed the point. I never said the others missing didn't play a role and API's passing (good or bad) has nothing to do with missing him in defence. Also when the middle is not right, the edges compensate and are sucked in and the space opens up out wide...you hear coaches and post game discussions talk about this all the time.

It's pretty simple what I am saying; we missed API's defence...that's it.
If you don't agree, that's totally OK, it's your opinion, but I don't understand how you came to it. It has nothing to do with other players or circumstances from last year...

The question is did we miss API? I say yes. Were there other reasons we lost, I say yes. So I don't get your argument.

Actually you said "neither have what it takes to keep the middle tight they way Api can" based on 1 game with 9 players out.

I have disagreed with the sample size and conditions Vs the control you are comparing to as part of your argument.

Whilst you can say Api's defence is good how can you say we missed it when the only similar examples of conditions (last year) we had the same result although for some reason that data is not up for consideration.

Maybe its my scientific background rather than arts and gut feel.

On a side note I have developed a tiger repellent spray, been using it for years never once been attacked by a tiger so it works, would you like some?

 

[tugga8]

@Snake good thread and I think you've nailed it. I would also add that Parker going off for the first 10 mins/combined with Lane's 2 errors and a penalty, it was just a cluster of things go wrong. I was a fan of Lane after the 3 matches he played this year, but for mine, hes a bench forward at best.
Kapow has been really quiet last 3 weeks. He needs to lift and help Jake out. I think we are pretty desperate for a good (not even great) second rower. Anyone know what's the Billy Bainbridge situation? Or that fella from parra we bought... Something?!?! Frankenstein and Lane would have to be the weakest second rowers in the comp at the moment. Even Newcastle have us covered there

I agree that Kapow was quite on Sunday, but against the Tigers I disagree. Manly dominated off his back when he was on the field. Tigers had all the momentum when he was off.

 

[HK_Eagle]

I agree that Kapow was quite on Sunday, but against the Tigers I disagree. Manly dominated off his back when he was on the field. Tigers had all the momentum when he was off.

Kapow went away from his strength in offence against the Drags I thought.

I noticed one of his early hit ups where he was running towards a smallish gap with some reasonable space between him and the defensive line to really work up some speed and momentum. Instead of using his strength as he has so effectively all year, he tried to stop and step inside the defender closing that gap. This killed his momentum (and the team's), as the inside defender wrapped him up easily in a ball and all bear hug as Marty did his fancy step.

I think Marty needs to forget the fancy stuff and just run super hard and straight at gaps. Perhaps the running meter stats had got in his head a little and just started to get a bit too fancy? I'm happy for him to try new things as it's part of becoming a better player, as he has dedicated himself to doing. I also hope he learns quickly from the errors and makes the best adjustments.

 

[Woodsie]

On a side note I have developed a tiger repellent spray, been using it for years never once been attacked by a tiger so it works, would you like some?

Does it come in an aroma theraphy version? Can I use it to detox? Is it organic ... it must surely be organic or at least GMO free.

 

[Snake]

Actually you said "neither have what it takes to keep the middle tight they way Api can" based on 1 game with 9 players out.

I was referring to the others players missing in action and there was 7 of them (not 9) and Wright wouldn't ordinarily be in the top side. I stand by the comparison with Hastings and Lussick because Barrett isn't picking Api every week for nothing; it's because Koroisau is currently a better first grader hooker.

I have disagreed with the sample size and conditions Vs the control you are comparing to as part of your argument.

Whilst you can say Api's defence is good how can you say we missed it when the only similar examples of conditions (last year) we had the same result although for some reason that data is not up for consideration.

So a sample size vs control can be made based on indications from last year, but not from the weekend? That makes no sense.

Maybe its my scientific background rather than arts and gut feel.

I thought science was about logic and reasoning. My logic tells me that when you take an important ingredient from the mix (Koroisau for example) and replace it with an inferior product (Hastings), you lose an important element to the flavour, regardless of what other ingredients are being stirred into the mix around it (like the absence of Green for example). So this idea you put forward that there are too many other variables to measure this, is false.

I guess I have to prove now that Hastings is an inferior product. The fact that Barrett is a first grade rugby league coach, using ethos, I can attest that he is in a position to make a judgement call on who should take the field when both players are available for selection; he picks Api every time. But I imagine that won't quite be enough. Further evidence would probably be the video footage of Hastings defending on the weekend, when he lacked aggression, line speed and dominance in defence, compared to Api's regular performances in the middle this year. Also, Hastings is a part timer and has played the majority of his football in the halves or off the bench.

This isn't some sort of artsy feely thing, it's logic. At present, Api is our 9 for a reason, and Hastings is a NSW Cup half/bench hooker for a reason. Surely it's also logic to assume that Api's combinations and communication with other members of the team would be better than Hastings and Lussick would have at this stage of the season, having played all 17 games up to the weekend?

None of this is designed as a put down to Hastings or Lussick, just a statement that we missed our regular hooker and the reason why behind it.

You've fluffed your argument.

 

[Fluffy]

I was referring to the others players missing in action and there was 7 of them (not 9) and Wright wouldn't ordinarily be in the top side. I stand by the comparison with Hastings and Lussick because Barrett isn't picking Api every week for nothing; it's because Koroisau is currently a better first grader hooker.


So a sample size vs control can be made based on indications from last year, but not from the weekend? That makes no sense.

I thought science was about logic and reasoning. My logic tells me that when you take an important ingredient from the mix (Koroisau for example) and replace it with an inferior product (Hastings), you lose an important element to the flavour, regardless of what other ingredients are being stirred into the mix around it (like the absence of Green for example). So this idea you put forward that there are too many other variables to measure this, is false.

I guess I have to prove now that Hastings is an inferior product. The fact that Barrett is a first grade rugby league coach, using ethos, I can attest that he is in a position to make a judgement call on who should take the field when both players are available for selection; he picks Api every time. But I imagine that won't quite be enough. Further evidence would probably be the video footage of Hastings defending on the weekend, when he lacked aggression, line speed and dominance in defence, compared to Api's regular performances in the middle this year. Also, Hastings is a part timer and has played the majority of his football in the halves or off the bench.

This isn't some sort of artsy feely thing, it's logic. At present, Api is our 9 for a reason, and Hastings is a NSW Cup half/bench hooker for a reason. Surely it's also logic to assume that Api's combinations and communication with other members of the team would be better than Hastings and Lussick would have at this stage of the season, having played all 17 games up to the weekend?

None of this is designed as a put down to Hastings or Lussick, just a statement that we missed our regular hooker and the reason why behind it.

You've fluffed your argument.

Players missing
1. Stewart
2. Tafua
3. Wright
4. Matai
5. Green
6. Lawrence
7. Korisau
8. Sironen
9. Brown

pretty sure that is 9

gave up reading the rest of the dribble after that since you are just making up rubbish