What's most disappointing ??

[maxta]

Personally the effort.
Not buying into a lack of good players...more good players low on energy and belief.
Will confess the left side of Kelly and Wright looks poor, especially defensively and will be spotted in every game by the opposition.
Most teams have an Achilles heel that is covered up by extra effort plays and technical support.
Maybe delusional, but have seen this side look like top 4 material, with the only team distinctly better Melbourne ....
We can keep making excuses about the cattle and yes...I see 2-3 quality players needed, but then I watch a team like Newcastle with a worse roster busting their b***s and competing.
They would not win a game if it was based on players, yet win a few straight and compete most games based on guts and determination - this is the hardest part to suffer ....the effort - or lack of....

 

[brad]

Maxta i look at it like this , This team pretty much had us running 3rd up until a few weeks back . Everyone will agree to disagree on player selections week in week out, and im one thats not fussed on the odd selection ,but all in all this team got us to we're we were 3rd . So it tells me we were good enough to be there and could knock over some pretty handy sides along the way, so i think even with the odd bad luck here and there it still comes back to ATTITUDE.

 

[maxta]

In a Nutshell Brad - That's about it.
Some on here feel its the fact we don't have the players...and to a degree, I get the point we are down on money to other teams.
Fact is - as you rightly point out, THESE players, THIS team has been good enough with talent in Key positions, Money ball signings and quality youngsters.
The best way I would explain this fact....
The Manly(A) team from the second half of that Roosters game against the Manly(B) team VS Dogs....Score would be 56-0 to Manly(A).
Nothing to do with the players....was the damn same players !!

 

[The Artist]

The effort has been disgraceful, that's the thing that i find insulting to a me, as a fan who pays money to go watch these guys who earn a $h!!!tload more than me.
They get to play footy for a living and don't understand how lucky they are.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I always thought artists were pretty lucky, they get to sit around all day indulging all their whims (reputedly)?!

 

[The Artist]

I always thought artists were pretty lucky, they get to sit around all day indulging all their whims (reputedly)?!

not these days mate, we have to work too!
but yeah...we do indulge our whims.
But i'll tell you what - i work HARD at my art
no half arse efforts. go hard!!
Go Manly!

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Actually a few different players involved that day. Taginoa, Parker.
Both bring their own pros and cons. Both would be better than Kelly and Lane at this point in time in my opinion (but its injuries that have forced Baz to make these calls).

For me it all started going bad back mid season. First Tafua going down injured against Raiders. In comes Wright who just isn't a fg winger.
We start winning ugly.
Then against the Sharks, we lose our right edge with Sironen out. In comes Lane. He isn't a starting fg back rower in my opinion.
All this comes off the back of already starting the season disadvantaged. This isn't something that started a month ago - this has been building for 2.5 months.

Any squad with money on the sidelines struggles. All teams get injuries... I get that. This is part of a normal season.
But starting this year, and most of last year, with 2 top paid players unable to be used... Forcing pressure on the rest of the squad and pushing recruitment choices that wouldn't usually have to be made.

It's all about depth, or more importantly, our lack of.

For me, the effort is there - its just some of the squad (in a normal full cap 25 man squad) wouldn't normally be in a first grade team. a Ressie team vs a First grade team 9 times out of 10 will always lose because they don't have the skill - doesn't matter how much effort is there.

Its laughable to me to hear people attacking our recruitment. The club has done what its done because they have money tied up.

We played like a first grade squad until injuries exposed the lack of depth (which isn't BOZO or Baz's fault) which has been caused by the Snake/Matai situation.

2018 will be different.

Love your work @Batty

Realistically a spot on summation of the team.

The thing I don't get, is just 5 weeks ago we were winning, and in 3rd spot.

With THIS team, so , no Tafua, no Sirronen.

Something has happened , perhaps behind the scenes, that's caused this massive drop in attitude.

It does coincide with the Salary Cap BS, however hard to see how this really affects this team as it was ( supposedly) years ago anyway.

 

[davohan123]

Love your work @Batty

Realistically a spot on summation of the team.

The thing I don't get, is just 5 weeks ago we were winning, and in 3rd spot.

With THIS team, so , no Tafua, no Sirronen.

Something has happened , perhaps behind the scenes, that's caused this massive drop in attitude.

It does coincide with the Salary Cap BS, however hard to see how this really affects this team as it was ( supposedly) years ago anyway.

And the panthers game which broke our season I think has a big part to play , pretty much the same team this week apart from Jake..scary it showed with the right attitude this team could defend, now that confidence has gone out the window.

Really sad to see this happen.

 

[maxta]

Actually a few different players involved that day. Taginoa, Parker.
Both bring their own pros and cons. Both would be better than Kelly and Lane at this point in time in my opinion (but its injuries that have forced Baz to make these calls).

For me it all started going bad back mid season. First Tafua going down injured against Raiders. In comes Wright who just isn't a fg winger.
We start winning ugly.
Then against the Sharks, we lose our right edge with Sironen out. In comes Lane. He isn't a starting fg back rower in my opinion.
All this comes off the back of already starting the season disadvantaged. This isn't something that started a month ago - this has been building for 2.5 months.

Any squad with money on the sidelines struggles. All teams get injuries... I get that. This is part of a normal season.
But starting this year, and most of last year, with 2 top paid players unable to be used... Forcing pressure on the rest of the squad and pushing recruitment choices that wouldn't usually have to be made.

It's all about depth, or more importantly, our lack of.

For me, the effort is there - its just some of the squad (in a normal full cap 25 man squad) wouldn't normally be in a first grade team. a Ressie team vs a First grade team 9 times out of 10 will always lose because they don't have the skill - doesn't matter how much effort is there.

Its laughable to me to hear people attacking our recruitment. The club has done what its done because they have money tied up.

We played like a first grade squad until injuries exposed the lack of depth (which isn't BOZO or Baz's fault) which has been caused by the Snake/Matai situation.

2018 will be different.

Actually that's a couple mate (Tag/Park) and if we base a 50 point turnaround in form on these 2 NSW Cup players, they will be picked a mile ahead of both Smith and Thurston as the next Immortals....which I doubt !!

That 2nd half against Roosters and other patches of 2017 show the side can compete if Attitude is ON....

Personally have seen in 2017 kapow prove he is 1 of the worlds best forwards - DCE close to the best half in the NRL - Walker the best centre in the game and Tom T show World class ability - Jake is pure heart and Australian level all day....sure there are the Wright/ Kelly/ Winterstein types who would struggle to make other NRL sides....but most teams have 3-4 borderline NSW cup/NRL standard players who those Key players can lift to at least play their part - and that's what happens if the team has Energy....it builds belief.

This talk of our squad not good enough is a slap in the face to 5-6 Star players and will kill the confidence of 4-5 players who have good ability, but lack belief and the rest of the players already written off will buy it as an easy out, as nothing is expected of them already - certainly won't lift them....

To call out a bad loss and base it on the truth - lacklustre effort - is not a supporter knocking the team they support....thing is - if you don't address it....even in those games where things look good....these habits will creep back into your game.....THIS is the secret to Manly's poor consistency....you need to recognise it and FIX it to move forward....

Manly's great form and Bad form are a mile apart.
A team like Melbourne - there is not much difference from their best...to their worst...
WHY?
The Key players demand effort from those (Average players) and lift them to their Optimum ability.
They are always up for the game....they believe they will win....and the coach expects nothing less.

 

[Spartan Eagle]

Actually that's a couple mate (Tag/Park) and if we base a 50 point turnaround in form on these 2 NSW Cup players, they will be picked a mile ahead of both Smith and Thurston as the next Immortals....which I doubt !!

That 2nd half against Roosters and other patches of 2017 show the side can compete if Attitude is ON....

Personally have seen in 2017 kapow prove he is 1 of the worlds best forwards - DCE close to the best half in the NRL - Walker the best centre in the game and Tom T show World class ability - Jake is pure heart and Australian level all day....sure there are the Wright/ Kelly/ Winterstein types who would struggle to make other NRL sides....but most teams have 3-4 borderline NSW cup/NRL standard players who those Key players can lift to at least play their part - and that's what happens if the team has Energy....it builds belief.

This talk of our squad not good enough is a slap in the face to 5-6 Star players and will kill the confidence of 4-5 players who have good ability, but lack belief and the rest of the players already written off will buy it as an easy out, as nothing is expected of them already - certainly won't lift them....

To call out a bad loss and base it on the truth - lacklustre effort - is not a supporter knocking the team they support....thing is - if you don't address it....even in those games where things look good....these habits will creep back into your game.....THIS is the secret to Manly's poor consistency....you need to recognise it and FIX it to move forward....

Manly's great form and Bad form are a mile apart.
A team like Melbourne - there is not much difference from their best...to their worst...
WHY?
The Key players demand effort from those (Average players) and lift them to their Optimum ability.
They are always up for the game....they believe they will win....and the coach expects nothing less.

Hey Maxta agree with everything you said about attitude and the fact that a lot of our players turbo, kapao, walker and the like on their day are unbeatable. The problem is that a lot of our players aren't seasoned, hardened and consistent. I don't think Kelly would ever make it in the storm side no matter how many spankings he cops from Smith or Cronk. Also there seems to be a lack of leadership out there. Like you I'm extremely frustrated because despite the lack of depth, we have demonstrated in patches that we have the capacity to hurt teams if everyone is performing to their optimum. But it seems that if 1 player is not performing then it has a ripple effect on the whole team. So teams with Kelly and the like can only take you so far.

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Lack of passion and aggresion

 

[Jerry1]

Actually a few different players involved that day. Taginoa, Parker.
Both bring their own pros and cons. Both would be better than Kelly and Lane at this point in time in my opinion (but its injuries that have forced Baz to make these calls).

For me it all started going bad back mid season. First Tafua going down injured against Raiders. In comes Wright who just isn't a fg winger.
We start winning ugly.
Then against the Sharks, we lose our right edge with Sironen out. In comes Lane. He isn't a starting fg back rower in my opinion.
All this comes off the back of already starting the season disadvantaged. This isn't something that started a month ago - this has been building for 2.5 months.

Any squad with money on the sidelines struggles. All teams get injuries... I get that. This is part of a normal season.
But starting this year, and most of last year, with 2 top paid players unable to be used... Forcing pressure on the rest of the squad and pushing recruitment choices that wouldn't usually have to be made.

It's all about depth, or more importantly, our lack of.

For me, the effort is there - its just some of the squad (in a normal full cap 25 man squad) wouldn't normally be in a first grade team. a Ressie team vs a First grade team 9 times out of 10 will always lose because they don't have the skill - doesn't matter how much effort is there.

Its laughable to me to hear people attacking our recruitment. The club has done what its done because they have money tied up.

We played like a first grade squad until injuries exposed the lack of depth (which isn't BOZO or Baz's fault) which has been caused by the Snake/Matai situation.

2018 will be different.

To be honest Snake & Stevie have been on the sideline for many years. Snake hardly ever played posy knee no.1 Stevie was walking wounded for years.

 

[maxta]

If you want to hang it on lacklustre performance, I'm hearing you. I just don't agree. We only won that game against the Roosters because they switched off at half time (and had a few out due to injury), Manly has done that a few times themselves this year. We have been out of form since Round 14.

Since round 14 we've had: 2 wins (Sharks and Roosters who were missing key personnel), 3 ugly wins (Knights, Tigers, Warriors), 1 Loss (Panthers) and 4 terrible losses (Dragons, Storm, Tigers and Dogs). Its easy to look at that and say 5-5 but It was clear way way way back against the Knights that something was wrong.

To me, the coincidence of calling on depth at the same time (Round 14/17) is too obvious to see. I don't believe we've been turning in lacklustre performances since round 14 - I think we've been using the players we have available in a squad that is short of players and cap space. I see effort from Kelly, Wright, Brown, Lane, Winterstein, Lussick etc but effort doesn't win you games. Quality players and depth do. And although its easy to say its only $1.3m - it affects a lot more than that, forcing decisions that wouldn't normally have to be made to solve issues which may last for more than a single year.

If it was just an attitude thing they'd get Tony Robbins in and everything would be sorted. Unfortunately its not that simple, at least not in my opinion anyway. Manly started the year with a hand tied behind its back... fought gamely until their other hand got injured and are now doing there best to dodge and weave.

Regardless, I'll be there to support them cause they're my team. But I have no issues in saying that our depth in the squad has led us to the position we are in now.

And comparing us to Melbourne couldn't be more apples and oranges. A team propped up by endless TPA's and the NRL's favourite love child due to the requirement of being successful in Vic. A coach who is the biggest lie in the comp, he himself propped up by QLD greats. When Bellamy coached NSW he lost. I bet you he demanded the same effort and optimum ability - it just wasn't there - didn't have the cattle - doesn't matter how much effort they put in.

And I think if they (Storm) started their season with 23 players (equivalent of $1.3m out of the equation) they would show signs of it during the year also....

Agree to disagree mate.

All good mate...
We do have a far different team to Melbourne in all round quality ....as do Newcastle...who still manage to fight and are rewarded with the credibility, in games they could get licked by 60 points yet go to the wire....
My opinion is Manly are down on depth, at a huge salary cap disadvantage ....but with more effort have proven they can still match all but 3-4 teams....it's only 3 weeks ago fans here could see that.

 

[Simonmyers11]

Our agression fell away after the panthers loss. We were bashing them up that night and goal line D was outstanding but kept getting penalised for everything. So hard to take that loss.

The crazy thing is only a week ago we were smashing tigers at half time and were in 4th position the way thst game was heading! That game should of been over at half time especially when ref called back a flat pass which would of lead to a try and 26-6.

How things can change drastically in a week. That destroyed our confidence that loss and showed when we played dogs. Amazing how things can go to sh#t the D against tigers was great first half and then we miss 47 tackles!

Still too many avg defenders in the team when we are on the back foot.

 

[maxta]

Our agression fell away after the panthers loss. We were bashing them up that night and goal line D was outstanding but kept getting penalised for everything. So hard to take that loss.

The crazy thing is only a week ago we were smashing tigers at half time and were in 4th position the way thst game was heading! That game should of been over at half time especially when ref called back a flat pass which would of lead to a try and 26-6.

How things can change drastically in a week. That destroyed our confidence that loss and showed when we played dogs. Amazing how things can go to sh#t the D against tigers was great first half and then we miss 47 tackles!

Still too many avg defenders in the team when we are on the back foot.

I will buy that summary 100%
Penrith got every call and that goal line defence was gold.
I fail to believe how anyone can not see this as crystal clear....
If Manly defend like that against Dogs, they would have been lucky to cross the stripe...yet without kasiano and Reynolds....made the Dogs look like the comps best attacking team....how can 1 not see this as Attitude ??

 

[maxta]

And yet they (the Knights) are about to earn their 3rd spoon in as many years. If Manly was in that situation - I wouldn't be praising the boys spirit and fight.

Everyone still sees the possibilities mate - but when the boys lose games against teams in the bottom 4... badly, consecutively, with finals on the line, season on the line.... it just gets a little hazy. Still doesn't mean we don't support them - thats why we're all here.

Hopefully the boys find whatever it is they've been missing and get back to their winning ways on Sunday.

I'm not confusing Newcastles team made up of 50% NSW cup players with only a few quality players to Manly...or where they are coming on the ladder....more a team with 60% of Manlys ability, but playing to their ability due to effort, compared to Manly dropping far below previous form due to lack of effort and poor energy.
We agree on 1 thing Batty...fingers crossed to an improved effort come Sunday.