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Two ways refs should change

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by The Who, Apr 11, 2016.

  1. The Who

    The Who Well-Known Member

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    Two issues with referees are giving me the irrits this season, in particular:

    1. Virtually every dropped ball being ruled to have gone forward. Many times the ball goes backwards, yet the ref almost always rule it has gone forwards.

    2. Needless penalties. There were 21 penalties in the Manly V Worriers match, and I reckon half of these were nit-picking ones that should have been overlooked by the ref. (a) Markers not straight: most times when the dummy half runs and gets caught the ref penalizes the defensive team. (b) Hand on the ball. Yes, perhaps there was, but did it interfere with the play the ball? If not, play on.

    It all comes back to refs having a ‘feel’ for the game. Penalties often decide the fate of a match, and tries keep coming from the next set of six following a penalty. I must say that refs would be helped by having the option of a 5-minute sin bin for repeated infringements, and the game would be improved by having short-arm penalties (like union) where the set restarts with a tap kick but there is no bonus kick for touch.
     
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    • sheridanstand78

      sheridanstand78 Well-Known Member

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      The job of referee has been diluted by endless others adjudicating on just about every big call now. Referees are no long allowed to use their instincts when making decisive calls.

      What seems to regulary happen now is when there is a turn over the team that loses the ball is inevitably penalised in the ensuing set and concedes points as a rule.

      I think it is so ridiculous that we see penalties for markers not square so rarely given as that is nearly every ruck. I would like to see the 10 policed by the 2nd referee more as that is policed for the first 15 minutes then pretty much ignored in most games.
       
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      • HK_Eagle

        HK_Eagle Well-Known Member

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        (a) Yes, interesting to watch a union game and notice the more lax interpretation of knock ons, though too lax at times for my liking. The ideal is somewhere in between. By all means be strict and consistent, but do so by calling what actually happens (as opposed to assuming because it hit the ground it's a knock on).

        (b) This. Taking out the kick for touch, or applying it more discrimately, would stop it being such a huge factor in deciding games. By all means deter ill-discipline and foul play, but far too often we do not see a fair and consistent application of rules/penalties. And too many times we see a team hugely advantaged by the most trivial and arbitrary (or even completely incorrect) application of rules.
         
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        • Dan

          Dan Kim Jong Dan Staff Member Administrator 2017 Tipping Competitor 2016 Tipping Competitor

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          The argument is simple two refs mean you get an inconsistent run through the game, and different interpretations of the rules.

          One ref means everyone gets the same opportunity.
          I never understood why they brought in two refs it wasn't needed and added nothing to the game.

          If two refs are to stay then they need to change the way they work. One ref is always on the ruck, one is always holding the 10. None of this swapping, they have their assigned roles and stick to it so that at anyone time you know they are policing the same thing the same way rather than the lottery approach now
           
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          • Simonmyers11

            Simonmyers11 Well-Known Member

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            Very good points!

            I feel exactly the same. The one that annoys me is the hand on the ball! Seems like every time a player drops it it is a penalty!

            It sucks how much a few penalties can decide the outcome of a match. I would hate to be a ref, it"s a tough gig. All we can hope for when Manly play is hopefully no absolute howlers that cause direct points against us.

            Its just part of footy now. Sometimes you get some calls go your way, sometimes you dont. Just need a brick wall defense to repell those repeat sets when we give away a penalty.

            Im just hoping the refs crack down on parra sprinting out of the line offside. Being doing it all year especially when they are defending their own try line. They also give away blatent hold down penalties.
             
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            • Simonmyers11

              Simonmyers11 Well-Known Member

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              Hi Dan,

              I thought they had infact changed the 2 refs. They have a senior ref controlling play and the 10m, while a junior (pocket ref) only controlling the ruck and giving advice to the senior ref if there was a hand on the ball or knock on etc etc

              I thought they had scrapped the 2 refs constantly changing who is is charge and who is calling the shots. That was ludacris! Always getting a different interpretation and one ref would penalise a team for one thing while the second ref would let the same thing go
               
            • yokahontas

              yokahontas Well-Known Member Premium Member

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              Fair point, but if you police 'markers not square' more heavily, you also need to police 'walking off the mark'. This also happens numerous times every game, and 9/10 times the marker, who is making every attempt to hold the mark and stand square-on, is penalised. The tackled player either moves sideways, thereby making the markers 'not square' even though THEY are actually holding the correct mark, or they just crawl or bulldoze forward off the mark and get the tacklers pinged for interference in the play the ball - again, when they're just trying to hold the correct mark.

              As you can probably tell, it's one of my pet hates!
               
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              • Dan

                Dan Kim Jong Dan Staff Member Administrator 2017 Tipping Competitor 2016 Tipping Competitor

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                They definitely still change.
                 
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                • Fluffy

                  Fluffy Well-Known Member

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                  they do but only for a short time until the senior refs has an opportunity to swap (usually 1 or 2 rucks after a change of possession)

                  It has improved a lot
                   
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                  • Dan

                    Dan Kim Jong Dan Staff Member Administrator 2017 Tipping Competitor 2016 Tipping Competitor

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                    It takes the senior referee that long to turn their zimmer frames around.

                    It has improved but still unnecessary
                     
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                    • Dan

                      Dan Kim Jong Dan Staff Member Administrator 2017 Tipping Competitor 2016 Tipping Competitor

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                      Exactly there was one of these against the warriors. We tackled them and were up and square, then the player stood up slowly and after them and took a step forward and to the side, and then we got penalised for not being square. It only takes the ref one second to look away and this can happen
                       
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                      • Technical Coach

                        Technical Coach Well-Known Member

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                        Just give each team 10 penalties each and let the teams work it out when they would prefer to use them lol.

                        My wish is they kill the game for the next 2 years and penalize the shyte out of every or almost every instance that arises that warrants a penalty, especially the 10m and not playing the ball with the feet as right now every team knows they ease up giving penalties(for what they are targeting at the start of the year) after the first month or so.

                        My other wish is every ball caught on the full inside the 10m from the defensive side gets another tackle added on to the count.
                         
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                        • KOMORI

                          KOMORI Born and bred an Eagle

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                          1) Stop nit picking on all the little things while letting everything else go.

                          2) Stop pretending they're the star of the show. I want to watch FOOTBALL, not some jumped up biased little Hitleresque clown blowing the pee out of his whistle every 3-4 minutes ffs!
                           
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                          • Mark from Brisbane

                            Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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                            Oh come now you are stealing Matt Checcin's thunder!!

                            And it's all he has in life.
                             
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                            • KOMORI

                              KOMORI Born and bred an Eagle

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                              Well I wasn't squarely pointing the finger at Checcin... But he's the obvious example ain't he!
                               
                            • globaleagle

                              globaleagle Deux bourbons s'il vous plait Staff Member Premium Member 2017 Tipping Competitor

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                              2 good points.

                              Maybe we need MORE touch judges! They could actually police the 10 metres and help out with an overview regarding the dropped balls.

                              OK, yeah nah nah nah.

                              But I agree...refs get into a way of thinking that dropped balls always go forward so it's an instinctive reaction to seeing one.

                              Letting the game flow doesn't seem to be their style either.

                              And what the hell is a zinger black?? *googles*
                               
                            • Dan

                              Dan Kim Jong Dan Staff Member Administrator 2017 Tipping Competitor 2016 Tipping Competitor

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                              I think we should have a ref for every player on the field, but instead of just running around they are strapped to the players back like a baby in a carrier. Now granted this may cause some issues with workload, but we can increase the interchange and at the same time reach out to the vertically challenged in our society and help them find employment.
                              I'm sure @Ryan wouldn't mind moonlighting

                              [​IMG]
                               
                            • COMMANDER

                              COMMANDER IF YOU DO NOT TRY YOU CAN NOT FAIL

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                              The amount of penalties being blown is ridiculous and is ruining the fabric of the game. As many as half of what is being blown are knit picking PITA penalties.

                              The game has more stop/starts than netball due to over officiating in general play.
                               
                            • Moondog

                              Moondog Amazing Blue Footed Boobie 2017 Tipping Competitor

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                              We need two refs about as much as we need two Greenbergs.
                               
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                              • Cliffymagic

                                Cliffymagic Active Member

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                                I agree the penelty kick should scraped. Just restart count. Lately watchin manly play its just prayin we dont give a penelty away when were smashin them in defence near thier try line. Then prayin we dont drop the ball once we get it. But once we give away that penelty that always seems too come you know a try is almost about too come.
                                 

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