The Schuster question ..

rmd

Reserve Grader
Premium Member
The only thing I didn’t like about Shu last week was when he dropped the ball that led a Roosters break, he didn’t turn and chase, he dropped his head and then jogged back into the defensive line. Thankfully the play was shut down by others.

I’m sure he has been made aware of it by Dessie and probably others like Foz… “Run f..k ya”.
 
The only thing I didn’t like about Shu last week was when he dropped the ball that led a Roosters break, he didn’t turn and chase, he dropped his head and then jogged back into the defensive line. Thankfully the play was shut down by others.

I’m sure he has been made aware of it by Dessie and probably others like Foz… “Run f..k ya”.
There was another moment in the game where he got in the way and Foz pointed at him and shouted something. I still wouldn't be surprised to see him benched this week.
 
First Grader
Premium Member
I don't really see Schusters form being too bad....I mean he may not be splitting the defence open every touch or throwing the subjective "no look passes" as often, but has been solid including strong direct running, fast play balls and defensively very effective.
As testimony to the defensive ability of Schu, the attack from opposition is predominantly more at the right edge, including Storm and no coach studies the opposition harder or more effectively than Craig Bellamy, who sent his troops to attack our right edge all day...unfortunately with great results.
I think ppl expect a tad much from a young bloke playing his first season in the Top grade and I have no doubt he has the ability to make some big plays at crunch times and could well be an X factor yet.
Just 1 last thing I have noticed in many of the long distance Manly tries, Schu may not have taken the final pass to score, but has been in support and pushing up on several occasions....he has football insticts that are born attributes, not coached.
 
First Grader
I suppose when you look at who we have played in the last few weeks it may be a lot harder to shine than in the earlier part of the season.
 
Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Comp 2021
I don't really see Schusters form being too bad....I mean he may not be splitting the defence open every touch or throwing the subjective "no look passes" as often, but has been solid including strong direct running, fast play balls and defensively very effective.
As testimony to the defensive ability of Schu, the attack from opposition is predominantly more at the right edge, including Storm and no coach studies the opposition harder or more effectively than Craig Bellamy, who sent his troops to attack our right edge all day...unfortunately with great results.
I think ppl expect a tad much from a young bloke playing his first season in the Top grade and I have no doubt he has the ability to make some big plays at crunch times and could well be an X factor yet.
Just 1 last thing I have noticed in many of the long distance Manly tries, Schu may not have taken the final pass to score, but has been in support and pushing up on several occasions....he has football insticts that are born attributes, not coached.

Max .. nobody has said his form is bad .. my point is purely predicated on my belief that from watching the games over the past month is that he looks tired and frustrated ... his body language has changed and the strut has gone ... yes he can still play a good game, and still pull off an X factor move .. but is his current role as a 2nd rower the best option for him and the team at the moment .. it may well be .. but I also think this late in a hard season .. his game would be better served allowing Lawton to tackle his arrse off for the first 20 min and then come on fresh and rip in ... just an opinion
 
Bencher
Max .. nobody has said his form is bad .. my point is purely predicated on my belief that from watching the games over the past month is that he looks tired and frustrated ... his body language has changed and the strut has gone ... yes he can still play a good game, and still pull off an X factor move .. but is his current role as a 2nd rower the best option for him and the team at the moment .. it may well be .. but I also think this late in a hard season .. his game would be better served allowing Lawton to tackle his arrse off for the first 20 min and then come on fresh and rip in ... just an opinion
i think the key isnt just about schuster its about the other forwards not making the team. pretty stacked at the moment with options galore and is he playing well enough to cement his spot considering the options available. its not like when he was the only option
 
Reserve Grader
Max .. nobody has said his form is bad .. my point is purely predicated on my belief that from watching the games over the past month is that he looks tired and frustrated ... his body language has changed and the strut has gone ... yes he can still play a good game, and still pull off an X factor move .. but is his current role as a 2nd rower the best option for him and the team at the moment .. it may well be .. but I also think this late in a hard season .. his game would be better served allowing Lawton to tackle his arrse off for the first 20 min and then come on fresh and rip in ... just an opinion
If you said this halfway through the year I would’ve said you were crazy… but it’s the right option now. Lawton is made for the first 20 mins of a final.
 
First Grader
Premium Member
Max .. nobody has said his form is bad .. my point is purely predicated on my belief that from watching the games over the past month is that he looks tired and frustrated ... his body language has changed and the strut has gone ... yes he can still play a good game, and still pull off an X factor move .. but is his current role as a 2nd rower the best option for him and the team at the moment .. it may well be .. but I also think this late in a hard season .. his game would be better served allowing Lawton to tackle his arrse off for the first 20 min and then come on fresh and rip in ... just an opinion
It's a tough 1 as your points and reasoning definately have merit and more importantly could be rewarded with extra interchange punch....but with 1-2 games to play, happy enough that the kid will find a bit more and lift and can live with either way tbh, because they both work....but....what's more effective ??
Well that Woodsie we won't find out, at least not in 2021, as the Dr Des will NOT change the lineup and feel very confident you will find Schu as the starting backrower come 4pm this afternoon.
 
Reserve Grader
There is definitely something in the stats that suggests Schuster is a tad tired, flat, carrying a niggle, or his role has changed in the team.

It's understandable for a 20 year-old who has pumped out 20 games in a debut season to be tired at this stage of the season - most of the games were in the 2nd-row and most games he played the full 80mins. I am hopeful it is simply Josh enduring the trials of a long season, complete with prolonged Lockdowns, separation from family etc.

However there is a distinct tale of 2 seasons in the stats going on. The tipping point is after the Round 20 Sharks game (which was the first Storm game). Split is 13/7 games played Before/After Round 20, including the 2 Finals games:

Josh Schuster - Metric Before/Including Rd 20 After Rd 20
Kicking Metres3210
Try Assists71
Linebreaks80
Tackle Breaks39 (avg 3)25 (avg 3.6)
Post-contact Mtrs356 (avg 27.4)122 (avg 17.4)
Offloads191
Ball Receipts270 (avg 20.8)105 (avg 15)
Tackles Made357 (Avg 27.5)194 (avg 27.7)
Tackles Missed22 (avg 1.7)16 (avg 2.3)

All but 3 games were in the 2nd row.

Whilst (average) Tackle Breaks have increased, and Tackles Made are fairly consistent, a few things are glaring:
  • No kicks in-play from Josh after rd 20
  • Ball Receipts down by 25%, ie less involvement, less times his hands are on the ball
  • Post-contact metres have dropped right off
  • Offloads have vanished
  • Line-breaks vanished
  • Try assists vanished
The missed tackles have crept up slightly, but not on account of making more tackles per game.

One thing the stats wouldn't measure is how the other teams are handling and potentially shutting Schuster down. They also don't show any linking passes he conducts in a backline move where he isn't the last-pass before a try is scored.

So do the stats tell the story here? Would changes in the way Des is instructing Josh result in this apparent schism in stats? Is this indicative of fatigue? Or a lack of heart?

Optimism tells me its the long season grind, and Josh isn't less enthusiastic, rather playing a demanding position over a prolonged period taking its toll.

What do others think?
 
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First Grader
Premium Member
I am a huge Schuster fan but I have noticed his game has not been as sharp as he was early in the season. He does a lot of work in defence and misses the odd tackle when he is fatigued. He looks to be standing flat in attack at times and needs to start hitting holes at pace. He has made 556 tackles this year at a efficiency rate of over 93%. So he is not jumper grabbing very often. His average running is 81 meters per game. Against the Roosters he ran 50 metres and made 25 tackles and our top tackler was Jake making 28 tackles. Pretty solid performance in my book. He did drop the ball twice of Friday but it happens to the best of players. He is doing just fine.
Yep. He is doing fine if you want a defensive second rower.
The Shoe is far too good to become just another one of them.
 
Journey Man
There is definitely something in the stats that suggests Schuster is a tad tired, flat, carrying a niggle, or his role has changed in the team.

It's understandable for a 20 year-old who has pumped out 20 games in a debut season - most of which are in the 2nd-row and most games he played the full 80mins - to be a bit tired at the end of the season. I am hopeful it is simply Josh enduring the trials of a long season, complete with prolonged Lockdowns, separation from family etc.

However there is a distinct tale of 2 seasons in the stats going on. The tipping point is after the Round 20 Sharks game (which was the first Storm game). Split is 13/7 games played Before/After Round 20, including the 2 Finals games:

Josh Schuster - Metric Before/Including Rd 20 After Rd 20
Kicking Metres3210
Try Assists71
Linebreaks80
Tackle Breaks39 (avg 3)25 (avg 3.6)
Post-contact Mtrs356 (avg 27.4)122 (avg 17.4)
Offloads191
Ball Receipts270 (avg 20.8)105 (avg 15)
Tackles Made357 (Avg 27.5)194 (avg 27.7)
Tackles Missed22 (avg 1.7)16 (avg 2.3)

All but 3 games were in the 2nd row.

Whilst (average) Tackle Breaks have increased, and Tackles Made are fairly consistent, a few things are glaring:
  • No kicks in-play from Josh after rd 20
  • Ball Receipts down by 25%, ie less involvement, less times his hands are on the ball
  • Post-contact metres have dropped right off
  • Offloads have vanished
  • Line-breaks vanished
  • Try assists vanished
The missed tackles have crept up slightly, but not on account of making more tackles per game.

One thing the stats wouldn't measure is how the other teams are handling and potentially shutting Schuster down. They also don't show any linking passes he conducts in a backline move where he isn't the last-pass before a try is scored.

So do the stats tell the story here? Would changes in the way Des is instructing Josh result in this apparent schism in stats? Is this indicative of fatigue? Or a lack of heart?

Optimism tells me its the long season grind, and Josh isn't less enthusiastic, rather playing a demanding position over a prolonged period taking its toll.

What do others think?
Harper , Schuster, Olakau'atu in the same boat in one degree or another. The first full season for the lads. They'll be better for it.
 
Bencher
There is definitely something in the stats that suggests Schuster is a tad tired, flat, carrying a niggle, or his role has changed in the team.

It's understandable for a 20 year-old who has pumped out 20 games in a debut season - most of which are in the 2nd-row and most games he played the full 80mins - to be a bit tired at the end of the season. I am hopeful it is simply Josh enduring the trials of a long season, complete with prolonged Lockdowns, separation from family etc.

However there is a distinct tale of 2 seasons in the stats going on. The tipping point is after the Round 20 Sharks game (which was the first Storm game). Split is 13/7 games played Before/After Round 20, including the 2 Finals games:

Josh Schuster - Metric Before/Including Rd 20 After Rd 20
Kicking Metres3210
Try Assists71
Linebreaks80
Tackle Breaks39 (avg 3)25 (avg 3.6)
Post-contact Mtrs356 (avg 27.4)122 (avg 17.4)
Offloads191
Ball Receipts270 (avg 20.8)105 (avg 15)
Tackles Made357 (Avg 27.5)194 (avg 27.7)
Tackles Missed22 (avg 1.7)16 (avg 2.3)

All but 3 games were in the 2nd row.

Whilst (average) Tackle Breaks have increased, and Tackles Made are fairly consistent, a few things are glaring:
  • No kicks in-play from Josh after rd 20
  • Ball Receipts down by 25%, ie less involvement, less times his hands are on the ball
  • Post-contact metres have dropped right off
  • Offloads have vanished
  • Line-breaks vanished
  • Try assists vanished
The missed tackles have crept up slightly, but not on account of making more tackles per game.

One thing the stats wouldn't measure is how the other teams are handling and potentially shutting Schuster down. They also don't show any linking passes he conducts in a backline move where he isn't the last-pass before a try is scored.

So do the stats tell the story here? Would changes in the way Des is instructing Josh result in this apparent schism in stats? Is this indicative of fatigue? Or a lack of heart?

Optimism tells me its the long season grind, and Josh isn't less enthusiastic, rather playing a demanding position over a prolonged period taking its toll.

What do others think?
PERSPECTIVE,
honestly i dont know if it is perspective but i wanted a go

the tom affect.

overall team form shown at end of year games reeked of laziness and self preservation. the dogs and cows had highlights but the team direction was seriously lacking. I think we have had a year of backslapping the spectacular, with thumping score lines, by butchering the dead and cheating the system to our own detriment .

the young forwards in particular schuster has had to learn his role and the team rarely plays the footy that we are now expecting from schuster in the big games from backrowers.

we should be starting games off the same way most weeks with the forwards, the kicking, to cement roles and responsibilities, structures so we have something to fall back on, but we have really just been taking the easy option by giving it to tom

young inexperienced forwards playing out of position would benefit from the structure to help right the ship when they need to find there own games. this is where the laziness has crept in too often letting tom craft out a win rather than going through the motions first

des will be wanting mistake free footy from the kid as we carry a number of mistakes in our footy side already and dont need him adding to that weekly with low percentage plays that are part of his game

Most of the team are too sideways orientated.

we have too many players like jake, walker, tom , dce and foz to have another ball player in the team. we need more carries, so i would presume its up to foz to get him running on to that ball but he rarely sees enough ball for he and parker to share

our team is **** hot but there is a balance issue in my opinion for sure
 
First Grader
Premium Member
There is definitely something in the stats that suggests Schuster is a tad tired, flat, carrying a niggle, or his role has changed in the team.

It's understandable for a 20 year-old who has pumped out 20 games in a debut season - most of which are in the 2nd-row and most games he played the full 80mins - to be a bit tired at the end of the season. I am hopeful it is simply Josh enduring the trials of a long season, complete with prolonged Lockdowns, separation from family etc.

However there is a distinct tale of 2 seasons in the stats going on. The tipping point is after the Round 20 Sharks game (which was the first Storm game). Split is 13/7 games played Before/After Round 20, including the 2 Finals games:

Josh Schuster - Metric Before/Including Rd 20 After Rd 20
Kicking Metres3210
Try Assists71
Linebreaks80
Tackle Breaks39 (avg 3)25 (avg 3.6)
Post-contact Mtrs356 (avg 27.4)122 (avg 17.4)
Offloads191
Ball Receipts270 (avg 20.8)105 (avg 15)
Tackles Made357 (Avg 27.5)194 (avg 27.7)
Tackles Missed22 (avg 1.7)16 (avg 2.3)

All but 3 games were in the 2nd row.

Whilst (average) Tackle Breaks have increased, and Tackles Made are fairly consistent, a few things are glaring:
  • No kicks in-play from Josh after rd 20
  • Ball Receipts down by 25%, ie less involvement, less times his hands are on the ball
  • Post-contact metres have dropped right off
  • Offloads have vanished
  • Line-breaks vanished
  • Try assists vanished
The missed tackles have crept up slightly, but not on account of making more tackles per game.

One thing the stats wouldn't measure is how the other teams are handling and potentially shutting Schuster down. They also don't show any linking passes he conducts in a backline move where he isn't the last-pass before a try is scored.

So do the stats tell the story here? Would changes in the way Des is instructing Josh result in this apparent schism in stats? Is this indicative of fatigue? Or a lack of heart?

Optimism tells me its the long season grind, and Josh isn't less enthusiastic, rather playing a demanding position over a prolonged period taking its toll.

What do others think?
To put it simply and you stated it early - his role has been adjusted - limit errors and play more direct, hard footy....still has the trick shots up his sleeves.
Also Schu hit a hot patch, where opposition coaches likely started some defensive patterns on his edge to restrict him which also effects numbers/stats.
Glad his kicking game has been cut off, as prefer him to concentrate on other aspects of his game and have 1 less thing to think about....also noted something in another post that is an important factor, Schu has been in support on several occasions and if the pass found him rather than the freakish Turbo and others, his numbers would look far better and would appear to be doing more.
Just maybe will come into play far more this weekend as I reckon there will be a fair few 2nd man plays down that left edge and the deft touch from Schu can be expected....but while he is playing tough direct footy as a first option, I'm happy with that.
 
Feast yer eyes ..
Tipping Comp 2021
There is definitely something in the stats that suggests Schuster is a tad tired, flat, carrying a niggle, or his role has changed in the team.

It's understandable for a 20 year-old who has pumped out 20 games in a debut season to be tired at this stage of the season - most of the games were in the 2nd-row and most games he played the full 80mins. I am hopeful it is simply Josh enduring the trials of a long season, complete with prolonged Lockdowns, separation from family etc.

However there is a distinct tale of 2 seasons in the stats going on. The tipping point is after the Round 20 Sharks game (which was the first Storm game). Split is 13/7 games played Before/After Round 20, including the 2 Finals games:

Josh Schuster - Metric Before/Including Rd 20 After Rd 20
Kicking Metres3210
Try Assists71
Linebreaks80
Tackle Breaks39 (avg 3)25 (avg 3.6)
Post-contact Mtrs356 (avg 27.4)122 (avg 17.4)
Offloads191
Ball Receipts270 (avg 20.8)105 (avg 15)
Tackles Made357 (Avg 27.5)194 (avg 27.7)
Tackles Missed22 (avg 1.7)16 (avg 2.3)

All but 3 games were in the 2nd row.

Whilst (average) Tackle Breaks have increased, and Tackles Made are fairly consistent, a few things are glaring:
  • No kicks in-play from Josh after rd 20
  • Ball Receipts down by 25%, ie less involvement, less times his hands are on the ball
  • Post-contact metres have dropped right off
  • Offloads have vanished
  • Line-breaks vanished
  • Try assists vanished
The missed tackles have crept up slightly, but not on account of making more tackles per game.

One thing the stats wouldn't measure is how the other teams are handling and potentially shutting Schuster down. They also don't show any linking passes he conducts in a backline move where he isn't the last-pass before a try is scored.

So do the stats tell the story here? Would changes in the way Des is instructing Josh result in this apparent schism in stats? Is this indicative of fatigue? Or a lack of heart?

Optimism tells me its the long season grind, and Josh isn't less enthusiastic, rather playing a demanding position over a prolonged period taking its toll.

What do others think?

Wow .. I knew his game had changed .. but some of those stats paint a very compelling argument ...
 
First Grader
Hope the Schu has a huge game on Friday. I'm glad he is in the run on side. I don't believe the mole - league's trash gossip hound - not for a second.

Two senior players telling the great Des Hasler who they want on the bench? Yeah right. The five time GF coach changed things up against the chooks, but the change was in the front row and it worked a treat.

Another masterstroke we can add to Croker becoming a hooker - Walker a superb utility - signing an injured Karl Lawton - signing a broken Foran - signing the fastest winger in the game - changing the defensive structure - and getting us to a prelim after losing the first four rounds.

What a coach - what a year!
 
Last edited:
First Grader
Max .. nobody has said his form is bad .. my point is purely predicated on my belief that from watching the games over the past month is that he looks tired and frustrated ... his body language has changed and the strut has gone ... yes he can still play a good game, and still pull off an X factor move .. but is his current role as a 2nd rower the best option for him and the team at the moment .. it may well be .. but I also think this late in a hard season .. his game would be better served allowing Lawton to tackle his arrse off for the first 20 min and then come on fresh and rip in ... just an opinion
its definelty a reasonable option. especially considering our biggest weak link is defensively on both edges
 
Member
Gl to the young fella. More early ball and less decoy running and ill be happy. Use someone else for hit ups and get him the ball in space linking with turbo inside or out doesn't matter as long as he has it we have seen what comes next...not sure why they have moved away from that combination really im hopeful that des has been saving it for this week.
 
First Grader
The Mole is as reliable as Silvertails own private message king - don't believe a word he says folks. The guy is bitter... Ps - ps - ps - Chinese whispers at best.
 
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