Anti-vaxx, masks, Covid, freedom, 5G etc
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Loobs
Living in the demountable.
I do find that funny though - pardon me, but would mind at all if we had ourselves a wee protest..? I promise we'll behave!
Hahahaha, couldn't tell you, nor did I even know that was the point I was raisinggood one, you are on fire.
But the answer my friend, as well as blowin in the wind, could well be found in the 'Trust the Science' section of the Tele, (I admit I am just guessing that there would be such a section, they may also call it the 'Truth' section or some such......)
It is a sad indictment of our times .. that men of discernment and a well developed sense of numbnuttery intolerance are mocked and ridiculed for reading a newspaper ... the Karen's are winning ... sadly, the Karen's are winning ...
I think the right to protest is still there ... not just the right to choose where and when ... for example during the 70's one of the construction Unions wanted to hold a protest march across the Storey Bridge in Brisbane ... at 4.00pm on a Friday afternoon ... unsurprisingly, with 500,000 people wanting to get home, the police turned up in force to change their minds ...
Hence, the current rules about getting a permit for a protest ...
I am a believer in actions having consequences - he acted in that manner which means it can impact his life.
ManEagle
Just a Man and his Eagle
And the reply
A wee protest ? I don't think I wanna know what the protestors will be doing during your wee protest.
Wouldn't that be also against the law even if you got permission to protest, indecent exposure ?
Or is the protest against weeing in which thats against the law of nature
Sorry mate no wee protest for you.
ps I do know what you meant by wee so no need for translations.
I think where we differ is that I believe the actions go past the one off event and should have the potential to impact his life.
If Soufs do not feel he is reflective of the values they associate with the award then it is a discussion that should be had. I do not have the information however I am not willing to say that there should not be any consequences in excess of the fine
ManEagle
Just a Man and his Eagle
I think they have a right to rename the award as they probably should, that is south's prerogative they can name the award anything they want however to take an award for football off him 7 or so years after he received for taking part in a protest is a it rich.
Spartan Eagle
Bencher
There is a right. This was evident in the black lives matter protest in July last year which was in contravention to the same Covid Health restrictions. The police tried to stop it. Protesters were immune to proesection after an appeal to the supreme court.
All I am arguing is that you can't play politics when it suits you when it comes to health issues. Either we all abied by the same rules or people will feel disenfranchised.
Irrespective of what the protests is about, I find it hypocritical for a government to go out on a police blitz on a group of protesters who contravened the same health laws last year. You have people dobbing others in, calling them scum bags, selfish for assembling on mass etc.. the same thing that others did the year before. Ie mass protest during covid.
Spartan Eagle
Bencher
I agree with you 100% . You need to apply the rule equally. Last year there were protest in violation of covid health restrictions. No out cry. No mass hysteria. No mass fines, media back lash. A task force set up to identify and prosecute people attending protests.
That is my issue.
If you mean the one mid-year last year it was ruled illegal by the appeal court?
I agree with you that laws should be applied equally. And there are a lot of things that should be a right, but I was just making the point that a lot of people assume we have the right to do this or do that or say whatever, but in fact that's not the case.
Sure you can protest ... subject to the Summary Offences Act, Crimes Act, Inclosed Lands Protection Act, Forestry Act, Mining Act, Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act ...
We don't even have the right to strike these days!
Spartan Eagle
Bencher
Good points.If you mean the one mid-year last year it was ruled illegal by the appeal court?
I agree with you that laws should be applied equally. And there are a lot of things that should be a right, but I was just making the point that a lot of people assume we have the right to do this or do that or say whatever, but in fact that's not the case.
Sure you can protest ... subject to the Summary Offences Act, Crimes Act, Inclosed Lands Protection Act, Forestry Act, Mining Act, Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002 ...
We don't even have the right to strike these days!
I was actually referring to the first mass protest in June...
Sydney Black Lives Matter rally organisers win last-minute appeal to overturn ban
A last-minute appeal to overturn a ban on a Sydney protest rally on Saturday afternoon has been granted, just hours before the protest was due to start.
www.abc.net.au
Anyway, I personally don't think NRL should be stripping honours off people for their beliefs. It's hypocritical. The offenders will be issed with infringement notice.
How about current NRL players who have contravined covid bubble health violations?? Why aren't they banned from the game? Instead we have the NRL bending backwards to help the Saints field a team. There is no logic.
Simonmyers11
First Grader
The unfortunate thing is, most of these idiots that were protesting due to not being able to work, just made things worse not only for themselves, but all the other people trying to do the right thing and get numbers down so they could re-open their business or return to work to pay their bills and support their family. A lot of them are just literally stupid, some of the remarks posted on twitter such as "the protesters are not the problem, you cannot get covid outside' and others still believe its all made up by the government, fark me! How brain dead are these people.
My biggest frustration is with the government and its lack of foresight into getting enough vaccines! I dont care about the anti vaxers, if they choose not to get it, so be it, their choice and their risk. Personally though, im not comfortable letting things open up until the rest of us that do want the vaccine given a chance to actually get the dam shot. I have been waiting for months for pfzier, wife cannot even put her name down on the wait list yet!
Gladdy came out and said most people that are getting covid have not been immunized! That is because there is no dam supply! They have changed their stance on the astrazeneca now, as more than 70% of covid case out west are under 40, so encouraging younger people to get that, however reported now that chemists and doctors are being caught off guard by how many people are turning up and they will run out soon! Government blew it by thinking they could count on the aussie made astrazeneca and not order enough pfzier, then they had the issues with the blood cots and now we dont have enough pfzier. My wife has been told towards the end of the year. Ridiculous.
You look at most of europe and on average 65-75% of people have had the jab. Over 4 billion vaccine shots have been administered world wide. We are sitting at 9%. Uk over 90% of adults have had a shot, 75% two shots. That is why they have eased restrictions. yes, you can still get it, still pass it on, but the chance of dying or going into ICU is dramatically reduced. Im happy to open things up after we have all had the chance to get our shots. yes, we could still get the virus, but hopefully not as bad side effects, we can build up our immune defence over time and hopefully will be like the common cold. Right now too risky for most of us.
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Simonmyers11
First Grader
government has been very poor supply vaccines compared to rest of world. We have been lucky so far that we have not been as affected compared to a lot of the other countries, being an island helps. This delta strain is not good though, Gladdy was to slow in reacting this time, called an initial lock down, yet we pretty much could do what we wanted still, go clothes shopping for example.
www.statista.com
Share of population vaccinated against COVID-19 by country worldwide 2022 | Statista
As of June 20, 2022, around 77 percent of the population of the United States had been given at least one dose of a COVID-19 vaccination.
www.statista.com
Covid vaccine: How many people are vaccinated in the UK?
A look at the progress made in vaccinating the country's population, as more than 50 million people have received at least one dose.
www.bbc.com
Spartan Eagle
Bencher
I don't understand. Why are people who have been immunized on lock down.
I haven’t seen many on here of late argue against arbitrary house arrest, mandatory face covering and the suspension of the principle of informed consent in medical practice, but as the tide is turning (at least a little in some places) and because I think it’s quite possibly the biggest consolidation of power by the billionaire class in my lifetime, I’ll put myself forward as an example of someone who would have been at the protest if I was home in Australia.
I’m not in Australia. I had a booked flight cancelled recently due to the new restrictions and I can’t get back right now even though I had decided to. I guess I’m one of the stranded Aussies.
The issue goes so deep and there are so many layers of misinformation out there on all sides of the argument, but a few points:
The hard data strongly suggests non pharmaceutical interventions have had little effect on the progression of the virus. Regions with strict lockdowns and universal mask mandates are very often not avoiding spikes in infections, hospitalisation and deaths and are in most cases comparable to non-lockdown, non-mask regions. Before this all began it was well known that surgical or cloth masks did little to contain respiratory illness in the general population at large. Somehow this got forgotten collectively around April or May last year.
In some cases strict lockdowns may delay the onset of a local outbreak but it always comes eventually, such as we are seeing now in Australia. Do we want to live indefinitely in a world where the authorities intermittently put their subjects under house arrest? Zero Covid is an illusion. Covid is not Polio. Covid is a respiratory illness, like influenza, rhinovirus and the 5 other strains of coronavirus currently in circulation. We’re being told more and more that the vaccines don’t prevent infection and transmission. Covid is endemic, we must live with it. Must we live with lockdowns as well?
And the measure of these outbreaks is primarily the PCR test. This test, even though it has been put to use for measuring ‘case numbers’ practically everywhere in the world, is not suitable for clinical diagnosis. The test includes a sensitivity setting called the cycle threshold which greatly changes the likelihood of acquiring a positive test. Too low, no positives, too high, too many positives. Before now it’s only been used in a research context or in conjunction with a clinical diagnosis to resolve conflicting diagnoses. In many cases a positive result could be people who are no longer sick, or are not contagious at all because they were exposed to a minute amount and their body already defeated it due to previous immunity, setting aside the likelihood of false positives. If we had measured any number of previous epidemics of other colds and flus in a similar way we would have seen a comparable ‘pandemic’.
Meanwhile hard data also shows that in the last 18 months the world’s ultra-rich have increased their wealth staggeringly, not merely unaffected by covid, but greatly benefitting from it. It’s also clear that public health officials and influencers who support the establishment line on covid have greatly increased their standing and wealth as well, many becoming celebrities in their own right. Meanwhile you might be unaware that numerous renowned epidemiologists and other scientists and researchers of standing, including those at the top of their field have disagreed with the establishment narrative and have suffered as a result, being censored and ridiculed by mainstream media pundits.
Some have said, in condemnation of the protestors, that the lockdowns cause great harm to people. In this you agree with the protestors. That is why they are protesting. Others have said, a minority may discredit the protestors, therefore they should avoid being associated with them. But this is not an easy fix. This is a problem faced by all mass movements. Agitators, agent provocateurs and just plain old kooks. The media will always tend to focus on this aspect if the message of the movement goes against the establishment narrative. This push toward “calling out” is an oppositional tactic that fractures the movement. It’s ok to disagree with someone but agree on a central point, for example, lockdowns are wrong.
I realise my thinking goes strongly against the majority that post on this forum. Don’t hate me. We all love Manly. I post this with trepidation because I hate getting into bitter arguments on the internet but I’m doing it because I just feel it’s important to make a counter narrative visible and to be true to myself, even if going against the herd can have repercussions.
Best wishes,
Phil
I’m not in Australia. I had a booked flight cancelled recently due to the new restrictions and I can’t get back right now even though I had decided to. I guess I’m one of the stranded Aussies.
The issue goes so deep and there are so many layers of misinformation out there on all sides of the argument, but a few points:
The hard data strongly suggests non pharmaceutical interventions have had little effect on the progression of the virus. Regions with strict lockdowns and universal mask mandates are very often not avoiding spikes in infections, hospitalisation and deaths and are in most cases comparable to non-lockdown, non-mask regions. Before this all began it was well known that surgical or cloth masks did little to contain respiratory illness in the general population at large. Somehow this got forgotten collectively around April or May last year.
In some cases strict lockdowns may delay the onset of a local outbreak but it always comes eventually, such as we are seeing now in Australia. Do we want to live indefinitely in a world where the authorities intermittently put their subjects under house arrest? Zero Covid is an illusion. Covid is not Polio. Covid is a respiratory illness, like influenza, rhinovirus and the 5 other strains of coronavirus currently in circulation. We’re being told more and more that the vaccines don’t prevent infection and transmission. Covid is endemic, we must live with it. Must we live with lockdowns as well?
And the measure of these outbreaks is primarily the PCR test. This test, even though it has been put to use for measuring ‘case numbers’ practically everywhere in the world, is not suitable for clinical diagnosis. The test includes a sensitivity setting called the cycle threshold which greatly changes the likelihood of acquiring a positive test. Too low, no positives, too high, too many positives. Before now it’s only been used in a research context or in conjunction with a clinical diagnosis to resolve conflicting diagnoses. In many cases a positive result could be people who are no longer sick, or are not contagious at all because they were exposed to a minute amount and their body already defeated it due to previous immunity, setting aside the likelihood of false positives. If we had measured any number of previous epidemics of other colds and flus in a similar way we would have seen a comparable ‘pandemic’.
Meanwhile hard data also shows that in the last 18 months the world’s ultra-rich have increased their wealth staggeringly, not merely unaffected by covid, but greatly benefitting from it. It’s also clear that public health officials and influencers who support the establishment line on covid have greatly increased their standing and wealth as well, many becoming celebrities in their own right. Meanwhile you might be unaware that numerous renowned epidemiologists and other scientists and researchers of standing, including those at the top of their field have disagreed with the establishment narrative and have suffered as a result, being censored and ridiculed by mainstream media pundits.
Some have said, in condemnation of the protestors, that the lockdowns cause great harm to people. In this you agree with the protestors. That is why they are protesting. Others have said, a minority may discredit the protestors, therefore they should avoid being associated with them. But this is not an easy fix. This is a problem faced by all mass movements. Agitators, agent provocateurs and just plain old kooks. The media will always tend to focus on this aspect if the message of the movement goes against the establishment narrative. This push toward “calling out” is an oppositional tactic that fractures the movement. It’s ok to disagree with someone but agree on a central point, for example, lockdowns are wrong.
I realise my thinking goes strongly against the majority that post on this forum. Don’t hate me. We all love Manly. I post this with trepidation because I hate getting into bitter arguments on the internet but I’m doing it because I just feel it’s important to make a counter narrative visible and to be true to myself, even if going against the herd can have repercussions.
Best wishes,
Phil
ManEagle
Just a Man and his Eagle
you can still catch it and pass it on to someone who isn't vaccinated just a smaller chance.
Bearfax
Grizzly old fart
Understood. But in this instance having a major demo unmasked is I believe irresponsible. As said this is a potentially lethal disease. I've discussed this matter with anti-vaxers I know and stated one of the primary reasons I wear a mask and take the vaccine is not only for my protection but for others I meet. I point out I don't want the responsibility of through my actions causing someone else to get the disease and possibly die.
Protests such as the Black Lives, Rights of Indigenous People, Rights of gay and lesbian people, certain laws that are discriminatory, maintaining our democratic rights etc where no one's safety is risked (except for those fools who incite violence) is fine. But in this instance, the manner of the protest was irresponsible. I have no issues about anti-vaxers or anti restriction demos happening, even if I don't agree. That's democracy. But they should have found another way to protest, that didnt put people's lives at risk.
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