The coach conundrum

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

Is the idea of a great coach with longevity a myth or based in fact? Is it more a fact that a coach is defined by being at the right place at the right time?

I think we can all agree that currently the last 15 years has been dominated by Bellyache as a pretty constant yard stick, Des gave him a good run for his money over 8 or so years and then Robinson.

Before that Benny from the Bronx had all of QLD at his disposal for so many years it just wasnt fair.

My point is. Do coaches make teams or do they just find themselves in tbe right place at the right time to make a name for themselves before living off the name for the rest of their careers?

All these guys had champion once in a generation players surrounded by high calibre teammates and a few dependable cattle.

Look at Cleary. Sacked and let go multiple times and yet now he finds himself at the edge of a possible dynasty side full of talent youth and flair.

Madge got a souths side with mega backing and top players. Hes done nothing since.

Other than stmerge what has Bennett done other than at the bronx? Not much.

Ricky got a pretty good roosters outfit early on but after that really hasnt done much until last year with the faiders.

The list goes on but what makes a good coach into a great coach?

 

[BOZO]

Is the idea of a great coach with longevity a myth or based in fact? Is it more a fact that a coach is defined by being at the right place at the right time?

I think we can all agree that currently the last 15 years has been dominated by Bellyache as a pretty constant yard stick, Des gave him a good run for his money over 8 or so years and then Robinson.

Before that Benny from the Bronx had all of QLD at his disposal for so many years it just wasnt fair.

My point is. Do coaches make teams or do they just find themselves in tbe right place at the right time to make a name for themselves before living off the name for the rest of their careers?

All these guys had champion once in a generation players surrounded by high calibre teammates and a few dependable cattle.

Look at Cleary. Sacked and let go multiple times and yet now he finds himself at the edge of a possible dynasty side full of talent youth and flair.

Madge got a souths side with mega backing and top players. Hes done nothing since.

Other than stmerge what has Bennett done other than at the bronx? Not much.

Ricky got a pretty good roosters outfit early on but after that really hasnt done much until last year with the faiders.

The list goes on but what makes a good coach into a great coach?

In my opinion
Great coaches are great motivators of Men who get the best and most of their players and lift them above their weight , above their capacity and ability

This is something that Des has not been doing

 

[Will on the hill]

Recruiting and simple clear non negotiable standards are the hallmarks of successful coaches. Creation of magical offensive/defensive strategies are a myth written with hindsight.

 

[EOL now nesting on the GC]

would bellyache been able to take the Melbourne culture to another side? he failed at state of origin didnt he?

 

[manlyfan76]

Psychology and managing people and team dynamics would be the primary role.
Money secondary
Recruitment and team renewal thirdly.

 

[The better Robbo]

Clearly did take Warriors to the GF didn't he? 100% the coach makes the team better but you can only do so much. Look at Bennett at Knoghts for example. You do need the cattle but to be consistently good over long periods isn't just luck

 

[manly al]

Strange thing with coaches or coaching sometimes and no different in the N R L . Look at Wayne Bennett "s long career , relatively poor results with virtual S O O level Broncos sides in the late 80 's and into the 90 's and again pretty ordinary outcomes really . One success with a really strong Dragons outfit in 2010 , relatively poor results at Newcastle , average back at the Broncs again , going O K at the Bunnies now . Probably a combination of things, need the cattle and player ability first and foremost one would think , understanding your team dynamics , getting the best of the playing group , being innovative , switched on with relevant tactics . Sure that the list would go and and certainly an element of luck on the injury front . Has Des still got it in a different era now , one can only hope so , guess that time will tell .

 

[frank stokes]

Clearly did take Warriors to the GF didn't he? 100% the coach makes the team better but you can only do so much. Look at Bennett at Knoghts for example. You do need the cattle but to be consistently good over long periods isn't just luck

Cleary was at Riff during the start of their famous 5 year plan... he had 2 dud seasons but still managed to get the to a preliminary final...
He got the Warriors to 4 finals in his 6 years there including a GF - the warriors!
Sure you could call his time at tigpies a failure but who has succeeded there? No coach has ever left there with a better than 50% win record and only Tim Sheena ever got a result out of them...
Having said that, the squad he has now would be hard to fail with... across the park they looked bigger AND quicker than us... Suli looked like a dwarf next to Burton who kicks the ball 70m and can't even make the 1st grade side without injuries...To'o is their only small bloke and he is impossible to stop... great team of kids, scary how good they could be over the next few years if they all stick around...

 

[robbiea]

In my opinion
Great coaches are great motivators of Men who get the best and most of their players and lift them above their weight , above their capacity and ability

This is something that Des has not been doing

Agree on first part ,but second paragraph ,I'm not too sure about.
Foran only just said in a interview that Des is great at keeping them motivated and getting them prepared and that it is a players problem.

The coach is backing the players ,which is what players want.
The players are backing the coach ,which is what coaches want.

I think it all comes down to if we had a proper hooker at the start of the season and a captain and halfback who wasn't so mentally weak ,we wouldn't be in this mess.

You cannot have a team captain who cannot lead with example.

Put C on Jake now.

 

[BOZO]

Agree on first part ,but second paragraph ,I'm not too sure about.
Foran only just said in a interview that Des is great at keeping them motivated and getting them prepared and that it is a players problem.

The coach is backing the players ,which is what players want.
The players are backing the coach ,which is what coaches want.

I think it all comes down to if we had a proper hooker at the start of the season and a captain and halfback who wasn't so mentally weak ,we wouldn't be in this mess.

You cannot have a team captain who cannot lead with example.

Put C on Jake now.

IMO
From all our past dreadful performances Des is clearly not getting the best out of our players . Des has not been lifting the team from getting thrashed every week

 

[robbiea]

IMO
From all our past dreadful performances Des is clearly not getting the best out of our players . Des has not been lifting the team from getting thrashed every week

But either could your mate Barrett ,who u were also very vocal about blaming.
When does blame switch to mentally weak captains who cannot operate when the chips are down .
Will you keep blaming coaches until we have out next premiership ?

 

[Red Pill]

Paul green is being proposed as an assistant according to the Tele.

 

[HK_Eagle]

would bellyache been able to take the Melbourne culture to another side? he failed at state of origin didnt he?

He would need time and resources. I wasn't surprised to see him fail at SOO because he needs to build the structures and culture over time. The SOO is not conducive to that. I believe he could do it elsewhere IF he had the desire, and if the resources were made available to him with everybody understanding the need for patience

 

[manlyfan76]

Clearly did take Warriors to the GF didn't he? 100% the coach makes the team better but you can only do so much. Look at Bennett at Knoghts for example. You do need the cattle but to be consistently good over long periods isn't just luck

Bennett was only thinking with the little head at the knights.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

We need to learn from the Cowboys. They changed the head coach but not much else has changed. Don,’t get me wrong I think Des is too far behind the game and is past it but we also need to rebuild our systems as well. It’s about performance and bringing players to their potential.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Todd Payton could become available any day now, he's meant to be a good new coach who is all over the new version of the game.

 

[Damien2812]

Without the right cattle the coach can only do so much especially when going to a team that's already had the salary cap spent on players that coach does not want.

 

[The better Robbo]

Without the right cattle the coach can only do so much especially when going to a team that's already had the salary cap spent on players that coach does not want.

That's it. We have a lot of dead wood off contract and there is also Siro and Walker off contract. Not sure the situation with Marty but we should be in a position to start to build the "right" team. I know the like of Croker, Parker and Taufua were resigned under Des but hopefully he has learnt his lesson and targets the right type of players. I think that the Tuipulotu, Harper, Saab and Lawton signings point to the fact Des knows what we need.

 

[Damien2812]

That's it. We have a lot of dead wood off contract and there is also Siro and Walker off contract. Not sure the situation with Marty but we should be in a position to start to build the "right" team. I know the like of Croker, Parker and Taufua were resigned under Des but hopefully he has learnt his lesson and targets the right type of players. I think that the Tuipulotu, Harper, Saab and Lawton signings point to the fact Des knows what we need.

True. The teams that have good fast outside backs already had them prior to the rule changes and adjusted much more easily to them. Manly however never had fast outside backs and relied on slowing the play the ball down to slow momentum which I much prefer since the half's needed to gain that momentum back to score tries. Alot of these players that may have benefited the older rules can't adjust to these fast play the ball game.