So far off the pace

[Ron E. Gibbs]

Dont know where this Garrick doesnt pass narrative comes from.

He was 6th for centres in try assists and 7th in centres for line break assists and 12 in centres for offloads.

Sure, but the "can't tackle" narrative has plenty of supporting evidence, although our defensive structures and efforts as a whole are awful, particularly down that side. Problem is, he will see even more traffic aimed his way next season, so unless we can fix it, we will be in a world of hurt, and he will wear most of the blame.

 

[Dingo]

Yeah I think it’s pretty harsh to say that Garrick’s season was “awful” and a “disaster”. His attack in the centres is actually pretty strong it’s just his defence that needs work, but this was his first full season there and it’s not an easy position to get defence right in. Hopefully he’ll be able to improve that over time if we continue to play him there.

 

[Bearfax]

Agreed Disco. Though I think Dion's summary was well put together, I also think he was harsh on Garrick, and also on Jake who, as he pointed out, had the best defensive record in the team, an area where some other players were at times disappointing. Certainly the hooker issue needs to be resolved. Corker is like Parker. Tries his best, no question about commitment, good defense but lacking in dummy half play and attacking skills, at least as a hooker.

As for Garrick's alleged defensive limitations, it isn't revealed through evidence. Tackle efficiency for Manly's three quarters this year.

Garrick 85.6%
Saab 81.9%
Koula 79.8 %
Talau 75.7%

Yes harder for wingers in defense, but comparing Koula and Garrick suggests the latter is the better defender. Not sure how Garrick got such a poor reputation among the Manly faithful.

 

[Disco]

Sure, but the "can't tackle" narrative has plenty of supporting evidence, although our defensive structures and efforts as a whole are awful, particularly down that side. Problem is, he will see even more traffic aimed his way next season, so unless we can fix it, we will be in a world of hurt, and he will wear most of the blame.

Yeah for sure.

And I was one to say give him time at centre....but his had it now and I'd be happy to see him back on the wing.

Not that he cannot still improve defensively at centre, but I think Talau or even Hoppa could be a better shot there.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Reuben Garrick had an awful season and his move to the centres was an abject failure – he can’t tackle or pass!

I wouldn't worry about his opinion, this author is an idiot.

Garrick certainly missed some tackles, pretty much all centres miss tackles. Depends partly what's happening around you and whether you're faced with an overlap etc etc.

Also, looking at the stats just now, some centres have a lot less defending to do, I guess their teams are attacked in other areas.

Anyhow, for 2024, some of the regular centres, tackle efficiency (tackles made to total tackles)

Farnworth 89%
Iro 89%
Best 89%
Tago 87%
Suli 86%
Manu 86%
Ramien 86%
Staggs 86%
Suaalii 85%
Meaney 84%
Penisini 84%
Garrick 83%
Timoko 83%
Alamoti 82%
Crichton 81%
Howarth 81%
Koula 79%
Xerri 79%
Holmes 76%
Kelly 76%

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

As for Garrick's alleged defensive limitations, it isn't revealed through evidence. Tackle efficiency for Manly's three quarters this year.

Garrick 85.6%
Saab 81.9%
Koula 79.8 %
Talau 75.7%

Oh, just saw this one Bear!
(Which also highlights that not all stats are necessarily accurate - I did mine from Fox)

 

[Dion Johnson]

I wouldn't worry about his opinion, this author is an idiot.

Garrick certainly missed some tackles, pretty much all centres miss tackles. Depends partly what's happening around you and whether you're faced with an overlap etc etc.

Also, looking at the stats just now, some centres have a lot less defending to do, I guess their teams are attacked in other areas.

Anyhow, for 2024, some of the regular centres, tackle efficiency (tackles made to total tackles)

Farnworth 89%
Iro 89%
Best 89%
Tago 87%
Suli 86%
Manu 86%
Ramien 86%
Staggs 86%
Suaalii 85%
Meaney 84%
Penisini 84%
Garrick 83%
Timoko 83%
Alamoti 82%
Crichton 81%
Howarth 81%
Koula 79%
Xerri 79%
Holmes 76%
Kelly 76%

Yeh he certainly wrote what he was thinking, though overall I do think that Garrick is a winger, he played well and improved his game on the wing, I am of the view he was below his 2023 form in 2024.

There are a few options at centre should Seibold go that way, no announcement of an extension for Seibold as yet.

 

[Stuey Davis’s Socks]

“Anthony Seibold’s cantankerous relationship with the front office was unedifying and unsettling.“

What are they referring to here? Seibold’s contract extension negotiations? Am I missing something?

 

[Bearfax]

Oh, just saw this one Bear!
(Which also highlights that not all stats are necessarily accurate - I did mine from Fox)

It was on Manly's stats but I did a quick calculation of Garrick's tackles for this year which were 394 and 66 missed tackles making it closer to your figure at 83.02 over 24 games. Koula had only 146 tackles and 37 missed tackles over 21 games so it seems he only did half as many tackles in the year as Garrick. Sea Eagles indicated Koula at 79.8% efficiency yet based on their actual figures its more like 74.66%. Hard to determine how these figures are reached.

What it suggests is that Garrick is our best defensive centre at present, but not one of the best defensive centres generally. However he's done pretty good adapting to the centre position from wing. Whether he's a better wing man than centre is conjectural. Parker was seen as a better defender, and probably was closer to 85-90% but he was more authoritative and that probably made him look even better at centre. But Manly needed pace in the centre and Garrick and Koula are very quick men.

 

[BOZO]

So far of the pace Perspective ....
Harper to NSW cup with the bears
Parker dropped to NSW cup last season
Croker should be next to go

The moral of the story
The best way to move forward "
Is to let go of players holding you back

There was not holding back the games greatest administrator and the Benchmark of Manlys Premiership Winning success Ken Arthurson who he kept on replacing and recruiting with upgrades.
For example not all were six figure signings , Ken also signed unheard of players like the Wombat , Fulton and Vautin .

The Bottom line at the Bottom of my post is this
If we dont Benchmark we will always be off the Premiership Winning mark

The Hall of Fame Benchmark of Success
Our Legendary God Father

 

[Dion Johnson]

So far of the pace Perspective ....
Harper to NSW cup with the bears
Parker dropped to NSW last season
Croker should be next to go

The moral of the story
The best way to move forward "
Is to let go of players holding you back

There was not holding back the games greatest administrator and the Benchmark of Manlys Premiership Winning success Ken Arthurson who he kept on replacing and recruiting with upgrades.
For example not all were six figure signings , Ken also signed unheard of players like the Wombat , Fulton and Vautin .

The Bottom line at the Bottom of my post is this
If we dont Benchmark we will always be off the Premiership Winning mark

The Hall of Fame Benchmark of Success
Our Legendary God Father
View attachment 28662

2025, some big decisions going forward and some changes to the playing leadership group.

The contract extension of Turbo before November.

The tough call on Jake and his contract extension before November, this will be a big call with what remuneration the club offer.

DCE, does he play on in 2026.

Croker, great clubman but his form on the field is a concern.

Hoppa, deserves a top 30 contract, a development deal doesn’t feel right for a player of his ability.

Garrick, was below par in 2024, needs a good start to the 2025 season.

 

[BOZO]

2025, some big decisions going forward and some changes to the playing leadership group.

100% Correct
The People at each club each year make changes ie : Coaches , Players , CEOs
and these changes that they make are accountable for their clubs success's or failure to Win Premierships

The Great people in Great clubs Win Premierships
and the Also Rans Run keep running behind them
Year after year after year after year

 

[BOZO]

Then we have the Excuse People (Excuses Never amount to nothing Excellent ) saying ...

Its not fair because we havent got this and we havent got that
Really ???
Well find Capable people that can get you this and that

The moral of the story
Iife is never fair or ever on the same level playing field
Because there will always be Capable and Incapable people competing on it

 

[jbb/james]

I know stats are indicators and for some much more but if you a relying on statistical data in silos then your outcome was partly pre determined by those that decided by the very limited fields,
Then we have the accuracy and collectors of stats, many such as gambling houses have there own, different stats. More applicable to outcomes
interpretations on tackles as a prime example and what is the stat on errors by a stat collector, probably getting into A1 territory for identification soon enough if not already.


But if one centre missing 12% another 9, there are so many varying factors its almost laughable to single out a player unless the chasm is vast

Think harder and use and trust your eyes and instincts. Its a game and eye contact, movement off the ball. Its far more important to judge the line
Are garricks incompletes a result of inside men failing there assignment or
Late movement or a mis read by garrick
Poor body position because he had concrete boots or because inside or ouside man left him to much to do
Poor contact or tackle choice under pressure

lets be honest, when the opposition spreads the ball right to left we send the captains signal out early to let them know we have opened a gate up to you if you want to try for it. When they get through its often soft as its early signal allows players to run a line to the hole. Its just about hitting the player. But the gamble is the intercept and that little sugar hit looked to increase our desire to gamble with parting of the red sea.

 

[Stewbojevic]

It was on Manly's stats but I did a quick calculation of Garrick's tackles for this year which were 394 and 66 missed tackles making it closer to your figure at 83.02 over 24 games. Koula had only 146 tackles and 37 missed tackles over 21 games so it seems he only did half as many tackles in the year as Garrick. Sea Eagles indicated Koula at 79.8% efficiency yet based on their actual figures its more like 74.66%. Hard to determine how these figures are reached.

What it suggests is that Garrick is our best defensive centre at present, but not one of the best defensive centres generally. However he's done pretty good adapting to the centre position from wing. Whether he's a better wing man than centre is conjectural. Parker was seen as a better defender, and probably was closer to 85-90% but he was more authoritative and that probably made him look even better at centre. But Manly needed pace in the centre and Garrick and Koula are very quick men.

The knock on Garrick as a defensive centre is about how he reads the play. Poor reads that result in an overlap or a direct line break don’t show up in the stats as a missed tackle.

I’m a big Garrick supporter and think he cops a lot of unwarranted slack on this forum. But I also believe he looks like a fish out of water at times defending at centre. Hopefully that can improve because Seibold doesn’t appear to be budging on the call to play him here.

 

[BOZO]

lets be honest, when the opposition spreads the ball right to left we send the captains signal out early to let them know we have opened a gate up to you if you want to try for it. When they get through its often soft as its early signal allows players to run a line to the hole. Its just about hitting the player. But the gamble is the intercept and that little sugar hit looked to increase our desire to gamble with parting of the red sea.

The Coach sets attacking and defensive structures and game plans
and that also influences the out come of games
This is why the coach is ALWAYS the first to go when teams keep failing to win premierships

 

[Bearfax]

The knock on Garrick as a defensive centre is about how he reads the play. Poor reads that result in an overlap or a direct line break don’t show up in the stats as a missed tackle.

I’m a big Garrick supporter and think he cops a lot of unwarranted slack on this forum. But I also believe he looks like a fish out of water at times defending at centre. Hopefully that can improve because Seibold doesn’t appear to be budging on the call to play him here.

I respect your perspective on this about Garrick, but it is perspective.

I've noticed this a lot over the years with how we all interpret information, that when a player is identified with a particular quality or lack of, it starts off as noted isolated incidents, anecdotal so to speak, and then others pay more attention to that player's actions. Get mud thrown at you and it sticks, even if unwarranted or not as significant as implied.

We are all biased in certain ways, usually without realising it. If we or others make an assumption about certain characteristics, our attention gravitates to that person's actions and our critical analysis is far more focused on that person's actions than on others. Others may have just as significant characteristics but if its not brought to our immediate attention, we will tend to overlook those same characteristics in others. We make judgement calls and once its made public it sticks.

The comment about reading the play is such a example. If we believe there's a problem we will confirm it in our mind by looking for it. Yet no one is saying Koula reads the play poorly, despite a statistically poorer defensive percentage. This doesn't mean there isn't an issue. There may very well be. However our natural biases will discriminate when we convince ourselves there is an issue in one player. This is why stats, though not telling the full story, do tell a more accurate story.

 

[mave]

Not sure how Garrick got such a poor reputation among the Manly faithful.

Probably due to all the tries we witnessed being scored down his edge.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

Probably due to all the tries we witnessed being scored down his edge.

Could be!
Personally I think he's pretty good and can continue to improve, but his miss in the Prime Ministers 13 match would have disappointed him for sure.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

The knock on Garrick as a defensive centre is about how he reads the play. Poor reads that result in an overlap or a direct line break don’t show up in the stats as a missed tackle.

I’m a big Garrick supporter and think he cops a lot of unwarranted slack on this forum. But I also believe he looks like a fish out of water at times defending at centre. Hopefully that can improve because Seibold doesn’t appear to be budging on the call to play him here.

Agree he often looks like a dear in head lights. His defensive reads are poor.