Silvertails- Let's score the Spines !!

[maxta]

It's tough to not all have the Maroon and White glasses when rating and especially comparing players....but with the Top 4 teams almost confirmed - let's rate the spines coming to finals time.
The teams obviously Storm, Penrith, Souths and Manly....
I think we have a great balance, but Storm no doubt have the strongest spine....Manly absolutely potent and still improving as a group, with the bonus of Tom popping up right and left and arguably the most unpredictable...South's are lethal, especially that left edge with Walker and Mitchell and Cook out from the middle....Penrith are well balanced and with Cleary back have extra gears but need to prove they can handle the heat....
Kicking games favour South's with Reynolds and Penrith with Cleary, but DCE has improved here and the Manly chase is hot atm...Storm are just a machine with several kick options and best chase pressure in the game.
What's the thoughts on the Top 4 spines and why ??

 

[BOZO]

It's tough to not all have the Maroon and White glasses when rating and especially comparing players....but with the Top 4 teams almost confirmed - let's rate the spines coming to finals time.
The teams obviously Storm, Penrith, Souths and Manly....
I think we have a great balance, but Storm no doubt have the strongest spine....Manly absolutely potent and still improving as a group, with the bonus of Tom popping up right and left and arguably the most unpredictable...South's are lethal, especially that left edge with Walker and Mitchell and Cook out from the middle....Penrith are well balanced and with Cleary back have extra gears but need to prove they can handle the heat....
Kicking games favour South's with Reynolds and Penrith with Cleary, but DCE has improved here and the Manly chase is hot atm...Storm are just a machine with several kick options and best chase pressure in the game.
What's the thoughts on the Top 4 spines and why ??

You summed up things very well feathered friend

 

[court83]

Melb easily have the best spine, followed by Rabbits..
Then Panthers, then Manly...
Let's be real about Manly, Croker isn't in the same league as API, grant or cook... Hell, he's not even close to the cheese, who is storms second string hooker..

Foz is years past his best... He is doing well in a side where he isn't expected to be the main ball player... Compare him this year to Munster,Luai,and Walker and he is 4th by a long, long , LONG margin.

DCE is a harder story.. I love the bloke, ide have him above Hughes, but he kinda just plays connect man to tom these days... But he has the odd game where he stands up and dominates... But he's still sitting behind Reynolds and Cleary if we're being honest this season..

Tom is the game breaker .. those other 3 sides have far better spines, but tom is the best fullback by a country mile.. tom more than makes up for the lack of ability in the spine and he will be deciding factor in where we finish the season after finals are all said and done

 

[maxta]

Melb easily have the best spine, followed by Rabbits..
Then Panthers, then Manly...
Let's be real about Manly, Croker isn't in the same league as API, grant or cook... Hell, he's not even close to the cheese, who is storms second string hooker..

Foz is years past his best... He is doing well in a side where he isn't expected to be the main ball player... Compare him this year to Munster,Luai,and Walker and he is 4th by a long, long , LONG margin.

DCE is a harder story.. I love the bloke, ide have him above Hughes, but he kinda just plays connect man to tom these days... But he has the odd game where he stands up and dominates... But he's still sitting behind Reynolds and Cleary if we're being honest this season..

Tom is the game breaker .. those other 3 sides have far better spines, but tom is the best fullback by a country mile.. tom more than makes up for the lack of ability in the spine and he will be deciding factor in where we finish the season after finals are all said and done

Very good summary - opinions will vary but I like it....had earlier scored each spine and had Storm clearly on Top with Penrith/Sths equal - Manly the bottom
But also viewed Tom so far ahead of ANY key player....it becomes far more level and unpredictable which is kind of exciting really

 

[BOZO]

Melb easily have the best spine, followed by Rabbits..
Then Panthers, then Manly...
Let's be real about Manly, Croker isn't in the same league as API, grant or cook... Hell, he's not even close to the cheese, who is storms second string hooker..

Foz is years past his best... He is doing well in a side where he isn't expected to be the main ball player... Compare him this year to Munster,Luai,and Walker and he is 4th by a long, long , LONG margin.

DCE is a harder story.. I love the bloke, ide have him above Hughes, but he kinda just plays connect man to tom these days... But he has the odd game where he stands up and dominates... But he's still sitting behind Reynolds and Cleary if we're being honest this season..

Tom is the game breaker .. those other 3 sides have far better spines, but tom is the best fullback by a country mile.. tom more than makes up for the lack of ability in the spine and he will be deciding factor in where we finish the season after finals are all said and done

Tom adds the fusion to our spine that makes ours the overall superior one .
When Teams contain Tommy our strike stalls and that is why I like more dominance from all other players in our team . I Hope Moses the Monster can rise to his X factor best against the Raiders because at his best he is a beast that is hard to contain

 

[Uk eagle]

I think us with Tom and the panthers with cleary jr are guilty of relying heavily on 1 part of the spine whereas the others are more balanced. The flip side is that Tom and cleary can both win games pretty much on their own

 

[maxta]

I think us with Tom and the panthers with cleary jr are guilty of relying heavily on 1 part of the spine whereas the others are more balanced. The flip side is that Tom and cleary can both win games pretty much on their own

I think many forget it was often Tedesco magic that had Roosters serious contenders in recent years and Tommy has another 50% impact on Manly imo

 

[The better Robbo]

With Turbo in our spine I don't swap ours for anyone else's. We have the best player in the comp, the Australian halfback plus the experience and grand final winning halves combo with Foz. Add to that one of the best defensive hookers in the game.
I wanted to start another thread on this but I'll put it here. I believe the reason our back 3 are in the top 5 try scorers is because Croker is playing the "distribution role". I believe if we had Fainu then we would 100% score more up the middle BUT we would lose that potency out wide. If you gain in a certain area by playing a certain style, you will lose somewhere else. We have a great balance of ball players, kicking game, defence, agression, speed and strike!

 

[The Right Edge]

Here is a statistical view of things.

The Storm Spine has 64 Line Break Assists (LBA) and 60 Try Assists with 4203 Receipts giving them an LBA every 65.7 touches and a TA every 70.

The Penrith spine has 47 LBAs and 44 TAs with 5245 touches ie an LBA every 111.6 touches and a TA every 119.2

The Rabbits have 82 and 64 every 56.2 and 72.04

The Roosters have 52 and 52 at every 76.4 for both

The Eels have 37 and 47 at every 145 and 114 touches

Manly has 69 LBAs and 60 TBAs of 4503 touches averaging a LBA every 65 touches and a TA every 75. Now cause we are all a little biased . Since Tommy came back from injury.

Manly has had 66 LBAs and 59 TAs at 55.4 and 62 Making them the most lethal spine in those two key stats. No wonder teams are scared.

Just as an aside we have the best numbers in those two stats since Tommy's return across the board.

 

[Chip and Chase]

With Turbo in our spine I don't swap ours for anyone else's. We have the best player in the comp, the Australian halfback plus the experience and grand final winning halves combo with Foz. Add to that one of the best defensive hookers in the game.
I wanted to start another thread on this but I'll put it here. I believe the reason our back 3 are in the top 5 try scorers is because Croker is playing the "distribution role". I believe if we had Fainu then we would 100% score more up the middle BUT we would lose that potency out wide. If you gain in a certain area by playing a certain style, you will lose somewhere else. We have a great balance of ball players, kicking game, defence, agression, speed and strike!

Don't underestimate Jake's role here either. He is that link man on the edge that gets a lot of these raids going. His combo with Tommy on the RHS where they bypass DCE has been especially good. Croker has been doing a decent enough job of just getting the ball to the right men. Matt Ballin made a career of it and was never anything fancy either, yet we had a very successful period with him at dummy half.

As for ranking spines. As far as individual ability and match influence goes position v position then we are probably 4th in that list. We have the weakest 9, weakest 6, and 3rd weakest 7 relatively speaking - that's not a knock on our guys just where they rank, but they are still all doing very well.

What we do have is the best 1 by some margin, which then makes the overall scorecard much closer. Much like Cleary holds the key to Penrith spine, he makes Luai and Edwards seem a bit better than they are. I doubt Luai plays Origin if he is at any other club. The Storm probably have the best spine in terms of individual ability, but not a lot between them and Souths when Walker and Mitchell are in their current form. Mitchell just lacks the level of involvement that Turbo and Papy have. He is happy to drift through games, whereas those other two are constantly pushing up behind the ruck looking to be involved, as well as doing the obligatory sweep plays. Grant is a standout at 9 especially when he plays 80, as Api and Cook have had mixed seasons IMO and you wouldn't say they have dominated week in week out. Cody Walker the best 6 currently, his ball playing has been compared to Cliffy - high praise indeed. Munster still a more dangerous running 6 though I reckon.

On our day with Turbo in the form he is we just need the other 3 to not play badly and we can compete with the best sides no problems. Makes for an exciting finals series as all 4 of those sides have really good spines - I hope we sneak into 4th as we it will make for some great footy come September

 

[maxta]

Don't underestimate Jake's role here either. He is that link man on the edge that gets a lot of these raids going. His combo with Tommy on the RHS where they bypass DCE has been especially good. Croker has been doing a decent enough job of just getting the ball to the right men. Matt Ballin made a career of it and was never anything fancy either, yet we had a very successful period with him at dummy half.

As for ranking spines. As far as individual ability and match influence goes position v position then we are probably 4th in that list. We have the weakest 9, weakest 6, and 3rd weakest 7 relatively speaking - that's not a knock on our guys just where they rank, but they are still all doing very well.

What we do have is the best 1 by some margin, which then makes the overall scorecard much closer. Much like Cleary holds the key to Penrith spine, he makes Luai and Edwards seem a bit better than they are. I doubt Luai plays Origin if he is at any other club. The Storm probably have the best spine in terms of individual ability, but not a lot between them and Souths when Walker and Mitchell are in their current form. Mitchell just lacks the level of involvement that Turbo and Papy have. He is happy to drift through games, whereas those other two are constantly pushing up behind the ruck looking to be involved, as well as doing the obligatory sweep plays. Grant is a standout at 9 especially when he plays 80, as Api and Cook have had mixed seasons IMO and you wouldn't say they have dominated week in week out. Cody Walker the best 6 currently, his ball playing has been compared to Cliffy - high praise indeed. Munster still a more dangerous running 6 though I reckon.

On our day with Turbo in the form he is we just need the other 3 to not play badly and we can compete with the best sides no problems. Makes for an exciting finals series as all 4 of those sides have really good spines - I hope we sneak into 4th as we it will make for some great footy come September

I agree 100% about Jake deserving of credit in many capacities, but must confess at times I get frustrated when Jake looks to have numbers outside and simply tucks the ball in and though straightens the attack...looks to stifle opportunities at times.
In saying this he is a great link, especially with Tom and also maybe playing to a pattern and setting to pull the trigger for a tackle or 2 later....he does often play the ball quickly too.
It's very easy to sit back on my 14th bourbon and shout at a TV - "Jake - Ya shoulda given mate - ya had a 4 on 2 outside ya"..... meanwhile Jakes done 58 tackles, setup 2 linebreaks, 3 off loads, 22 hit ups....while I've walked 10m to the toilet

 

[Will on the hill]

Storm 35/40
Grant 10/10
Hughes 8/10
Munster 9/10
Papy 8/10

Souths 34/40
Cook 9/10
Reynolds 8/10
Walker 9/10
Latrell 8/10 (would be a 10/10 centre)

Manly 34/40
Croker 7/10
DCE 9/10
Foz 8/10
Turbo 10/10

Panthers 33/40
Api 8/10
Cleary 10/10
Luai 8/10
Edwards 7/10

 

[Fibro Eagle]

I believe Manly's spine can win the comp
Melbournes is probably the best though , Melbourne could loose one of there's but have a replacement ready to fill the void without any great loss that’s what puts them on top

 

[Woodsie]

A spines performance, if good, is greater than the sum of it's individual components .. simply placing a value on each player may be a good guide .. but which spine is going to win you the big one ..

I think they all can on their day ..

 

[BOZO]

With Turbo in our spine I don't swap ours for anyone else's. We have the best player in the comp, the Australian halfback plus the experience and grand final winning halves combo with Foz. Add to that one of the best defensive hookers in the game.
I wanted to start another thread on this but I'll put it here. I believe the reason our back 3 are in the top 5 try scorers is because Croker is playing the "distribution role". I believe if we had Fainu then we would 100% score more up the middle BUT we would lose that potency out wide. If you gain in a certain area by playing a certain style, you will lose somewhere else. We have a great balance of ball players, kicking game, defence, agression, speed and strike!

I see it this way

The more strike play we have. The more options we have to strike from all over the field

We would be less predictable and our opposition would be on edge

Fancy Fainu would not be a liability he would be another probability.

More great player bring more greatness to your team

 

[The better Robbo]

I see it this way

The more strike play we have. The more options we have to strike from all over the field

We would be less predictable and our opposition would be on edge

Fancy Fainu would not be a liability he would be another probability.

More great player bring more greatness to your team

Yeah im not saying Fainu wouldn't add a huge amount of attack and variety. I just believe that if Fainu is our #9 I don't see our 2 wingers scoring as many tries out wide as they have as we would alter our game plan somewhat and play more through the middle.

 

[BOZO]

Yeah im not saying Fainu wouldn't add a huge amount of attack and variety. I just believe that if Fainu is our #9 I don't see our 2 wingers scoring as many tries out wide as they have as we would alter our game plan somewhat and play more through the middle.

I see a better number 9 in our spine would make us a less predictable team and a more superior team over all . With so much strike power from all over the field we would be a more lethal team .

More power in a team is more formidable than less power

 

[AlxFromNthNarra]

I think rating the spines nowadays has to take into consideration the strategy the team employs for their 9.

Melb effectively have a 5-man spine with Grant/Smith. Penrith do as well with Api/Kenny. When Manly were flying in 2019, it was with a 5-man spine too in Api/Fainu.

Today, Manly have arguably 2 Spine players on the bench quite often, depending on how you regard Walker.

Most teams are running with an extra 'Spine' player as their 14 nowadays, and I think it would be an interesting exercise to review how that tactic differentiates between the teams!

Definitely keeps it interesting in my view 🙂

 

[AlxFromNthNarra]

Oh and as for rating the Spines:
1. Melb
2. Souths
3. Manly/Penrith about evens on balance
4. Roosters (with Keary in)
5. Newcastle (I know....surprised me too, but it is a good spine at full-strength)

EDIT: Parra not making this list is intentional - but I would have them at 6 admittedly. Dylan Brown is underwhelming, and Gutho is a great leader who punches above his weight, but is not the gamebreaker other teams have there (Teddy/Latrell/Turbo/Ponga). I like Mahoney at 9 a lot, but Moses is on-par with Mitchell Pearce imo

 

[The better Robbo]

Oh and as for rating the Spines:
1. Melb
2. Souths
3. Manly/Penrith about evens on balance
4. Roosters (with Keary in)
5. Newcastle (I know....surprised me too, but it is a good spine at full-strength)

EDIT: Parra not making this list is intentional - but I would have them at 6 admittedly. Dylan Brown is underwhelming, and Gutho is a great leader who punches above his weight, but is not the gamebreaker other teams have there (Teddy/Latrell/Turbo/Ponga). I like Mahoney at 9 a lot, but Moses is on-par with Mitchell Pearce imo

So you would trade Turbo and our spine for Bunnies or Melbourne? I'm not sure I would. Turbo is by far the best player in the comp and wouldn't trade him and our spine for any other spine.