The No-Look News (Schuster Chronicles)

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gifty had presence, game sense and was a leader of men. not many players in any generation had what gifty had, his timing was was spot on and he knew when to speed a game up and when to slow it down. skills we just cant manufacture now

he was finucane with ball skills, and a grubber

he was the non captain , captain of our side and one of the best
 
Isn't this what you're doing with Schuster? I mean seriously he has shown glimpses of skill and talent but Gifty was tough, skilful, had the heart of a lion and was a leader of our pack. If Schuster can unearth these tough leadership qualities then no doubt he will have a huge career BUT his skill will only get him so far. Give me a guy like Gifty that plays tough and leads by example over a guy with superior skill that doesn't have a go.
Not saying Schuster won't get there but man he has a long way to go to get my vote as better than Gifty.

Robbo, Schuster may fall flat, no question. There's always a chance he may not reach the heights I think he will. C'est la vie. But don't you think it remarkable that for a kid of 20 who played most of his football at 5/8 in his later junior years (and remember for 2 years in a row he was considered the best in the competitions as a whole he played in awards), to be now thrown into an 80 minute second row position as his first experience at first grade this year, with all the defensive grunt work he's had to deal with as well as take on an attacking responsibility that he's done remarkably well. Wouldn't you think it doesn't offer anywhere as much opportunity to shine if he had played 5/8.

Most new forwards don't even start to shine until they are about 23, including Glenn Stewart. I think those looking at this kid are placing unrealistic expectations on him. He's out of position and yet gets selected for a NZ squad. He does show toughness, far more than the average 5/8, is highly skilful and as I've noted he also displays a heart of a lion. He's not the leader of the pack, but what 20 year old ever is. Thing is you are recalling Gifty at his very best in his late 20s after years of first grade. Try comparing him with Schuster at 20 years old. Stewart couldn't even get a regular start in the Manly side until he was 23 after three years of around half a dozen games a season.

In my mind one has to get it into perspective. If you are going to compare, do it on an equal level. Even Cliffy didn't play first grade until he was 23 and didn't impress until he was about 24. At 20 he was unknown. In my mind for a debut season in a position Schuster's never had to play in the senior ranks and little in the junior ranks, he's done remarkably well and is obviously one of the first forwards Des selects. already.
 
I am in my right mind and my opinion is that in terms of sheer talent, Schuster is better than Gifty. As I pointed out Gifty didn't come to prominence until he as about 24. He was a fine player, no question, but I think many here are perhaps remembering only the best of that player, something that happens with retrospective perceptions. He was a very good player but not a great one. Played 5 tests in his mid to late 20s. He was a second rower with some ball playing skills, and has been seen as almost a second 5/8. Schuster is already being looked at for test duty at 20 for NZ and in a position that does not display the full range of his skills. I doubt Gifty would ever be considered as a permanent 5/8. Yet Hasler at present is using Schuster as one of his two 80 minute forwards handling almost 30 tackles a game and then standing outside Foran as a 5/8 centre link. His efforts this year are not fully appreciated because he did a lot of work close to the action requiring more energy than all but Jake, DCE and Croker. A look at his Fantasy points shows that he was in that regard one of Manly's highest point scoring players behind Turbo, DCE, Garrett and Jake.

One of the biggest issues with perception is that we are led to look at the flashier plays and say 'Ohhh and Ahhh' and determine this is what makes a top player on the field. No question in my mind that Turbo and DCE were streets ahead of the rest for impact on the game this year. But below them its not so obvious and Schuster was definitely up there. Otherwise why would NZ be selecting him
Your obsession with Schuster is reaching new heights. Seriously. Glenn Stewart was a great player! Your other fav Cliff Lyons didn’t play a lot of SOO, ditto Terry Lamb but I think we can all agree they were great players...using caps in rep sides to judge the quality of a player is floored. Andrew Johns, the 8th immortal played more 9 than 7 in SOO. So much depends on who else is playing in the same position at the time and injuries etc. Snake never played a lot of Origin.

As for age, Codie Walker debut at 26 years of age. He has played SOO and scored a memorable try in a GF and broke records for try assists...it doesn’t matter that Glenn wasn’t pushing for rep honours at 20 years old. Also NZ is much easier to crack than NSW and Australia. Comparing apples and oranges.

But hey...they’ve all played more rep footy than Schuster as we speak...let’s hold our horses and make comparison in 10 years time!
 
like to see Schuster improve a bit with front on defence , tends to follow an attacking player a bit and drop off the odd tackle a bit . Olakatu - atu and Jake of course are more direct hitters and again would prefer Josh adapt his style more to this technique . Certainly big and strong enough to take on opposing forwards more head on , attack can only improve and will always have those excellent skills .More then capable of being a good enough 6 in i st grade but again just think that the trend is not conductive to him being overly suited there and especially with his present playing size . Look at the top no 6 "s going around now , Cody Walker , Munster ,. Luai , Keary , Wighton , Dylan Walker , . Josh playing attributes and size on current indications again seems more suited to back row and edges . Way to early to be comparing Josh with the likes of Gifty , career is heading in the right direction and very hopefully can at least match Glen "s great contribution at Manly if not surpass it .
 
like to see Schuster improve a bit with front on defence , tends to follow an attacking player a bit and drop off the odd tackle a bit . Olakatu - atu and Jake of course are more direct hitters and again would prefer Josh adapt his style more to this technique . Certainly big and strong enough to take on opposing forwards more head on , attack can only improve and will always have those excellent skills .More then capable of being a good enough 6 in i st grade but again just think that the trend is not conductive to him being overly suited there and especially with his present playing size . Look at the top no 6 "s going around now , Cody Walker , Munster ,. Luai , Keary , Wighton , Dylan Walker , . Josh playing attributes and size on current indications again seems more suited to back row and edges . Way to early to be comparing Josh with the likes of Gifty , career is heading in the right direction and very hopefully can at least match Glen "s great contribution at Manly if not surpass it .
and combination with DCE if he is 6. they are quite similar and neither appear to have rear guard action games. we have spent years trying o find a suitable partner for DCE and unearthed schuster . its a conundrum
 
and combination with DCE if he is 6. they are quite similar and neither appear to have rear guard action games. we have spent years trying o find a suitable partner for DCE and unearthed schuster . its a conundrum
guess that time will tell in regard to Schuster maybe eventually slotting in as a 6 for Manly but again have my reservations .Sill maintain that D C E and Walker were going real well individually , combining well and complimenting each other when they were the halve's pairing for a good part of 2019 and the start of 2020 . Green a bit fragile in defence but still a good foil for D C E in the main . Tribute to Foz that he was able to lift his game and get back to some really solid form this season and really hope can repeat it next season , [ Of course just my views for all of the above ]
 
I think those looking at this kid are placing unrealistic expectations on him.
Now are you are arguing against yourself?
It was very smart to play Schu in the forwards this year, give him the essential education about the toughness and physicality required to succeed in NRL before asking him to hone his attacking talents at that level.

He showed plenty this season and is definitely one of the most exciting new talents in NRL, can't wait to see how he goes next year.

However I disagree with your theory that he will be annoyed at having to do grunt work and head off to the Roosters so he can play in the halves. I think he is smarter than that!

And I really hope he ends up as good a player as Glenn Stewart, because that would make him a genuine Sea Eagle champion (which Schu isn't yet - Hey, maybe you are placing unrealistic expectations on him to suggest otherwise?!!) ;)
 
guess that time will tell in regard to Schuster maybe eventually slotting in as a 6 for Manly but again have my reservations .Sill maintain that D C E and Walker were going real well individually , combining well and complimenting each other when they were the halve's pairing for a good part of 2019 and the start of 2020 . Green a bit fragile in defence but still a good foil for D C E in the main . Tribute to Foz that he was able to lift his game and get back to some really solid form this season and really hope can repeat it next season , [ Of course just my views for all of the above ]
yeah walker copped too much flak for his role at 6. he was really coming along.
schuster needs more time and i wonder if promises made to retain him are playing out

with dce, foz, schuster, walker and lawnton, my feeling is we have too many utilities and not enough specialists in the team despite what they bring individually. its not about what they bring but what the team misses out on with them holding to many positions
 
Isn't it obvious that Walker's "loyalty" to Manly is trumped by money? He's just waiting for a higher offer to jump to another club. He's been at Manly for 6-7 seasons now and our results during that period have been underwhelming. He is not our future. Let him chase the larger salary. As a wise recruiter once said: "I'd love to buy him at my price, sell him at his and pocket the profit..."
 
Isn't it obvious that Walker's "loyalty" to Manly is trumped by money? He's just waiting for a higher offer to jump to another club. He's been at Manly for 6-7 seasons now and our results during that period have been underwhelming. He is not our future. Let him chase the larger salary. As a wise recruiter once said: "I'd love to buy him at my price, sell him at his and pocket the profit..."
maybe its the utilty role. the storm and riff are benchmark sides and he would start at both clubs and play 80. he has had his off field issues but has shown he is still a dynamic footy player
 
Just wondering how our team this year would have gone in the finals with Schuster at 6 ,Evans 7 , Walker and Suli in the centers . Looking forward to 2022 with less errors and minimal injuries , we will be hard to beat .Let's go Maaaaannnnnly .
 
I reckon Des played Schuster at 2nd row this season to give him full-game experience in the NRL & also to temper his tendency to be flashy every time he has the ball in his hands so he learns to be more selective with his flashy plays.

I think next season we'll see Schuster continue to start at #12 but switch to 5/8th at halftime as Des will start resting Foz.

He'll have Lawton & Bullemor on the bench to cover utility & Schuster when Foz comes off.

This wont happen every game but I think will happen in early season games against lesser opposition before Schusters starts as 5/8th towards the end of the season.
 
Now are you are arguing against yourself?
It was very smart to play Schu in the forwards this year, give him the essential education about the toughness and physicality required to succeed in NRL before asking him to hone his attacking talents at that level.

He showed plenty this season and is definitely one of the most exciting new talents in NRL, can't wait to see how he goes next year.

However I disagree with your theory that he will be annoyed at having to do grunt work and head off to the Roosters so he can play in the halves. I think he is smarter than that!

And I really hope he ends up as good a player as Glenn Stewart, because that would make him a genuine Sea Eagle champion (which Schu isn't yet - Hey, maybe you are placing unrealistic expectations on him to suggest otherwise?!!) ;)


SER8 there you go again misquoting me. You do that a lot mate. I said nothing for instance about him heading to SC to play 5/8. Where the hell did that come from? I said that I suspect he wants to play 5/8 and there are feelers already, I understand for him to move. Auckland was the team I referred to. And I would suggest he is probably a little miffed at playing second row because his own manager indicated he was concerned when Foran was added and he suggested he may look elsewhere. Now Schuster quickly denied that, but managers respond to what their clients ask for otherwise they lose the client, so I think its safe to say Schuster was concerned. He's just not wanting to make an issue of it at this stage, and as reported he's quite a shy lad. I think there's no doubt he loves being at Manly and seems to have many mates coming through. But there will come a time when he gains more kudos, more status, more confidence, that he will seriously ask the question...can I do better elsewhere financially and in the position I prefer. Most players do the same dont they?

And I'm not sure how I can be arguing against myself. Please explain and the Lady would say. I'm certainly not suggesting that Schuster hasn't gained playing in the forwards and I did say he was tough and being one of the two 80 minute forwards showed a lot of heart. As usual its not an either or, its about where he is better suited. I personally was impressed with his first season, but I also think the work load and position he was in stilted his creativity.. And at 20 that is not surprising.
 
SER8 there you go again misquoting me. You do that a lot mate. I said nothing for instance about him heading to SC to play 5/8. Where the hell did that come from? I said that I suspect he wants to play 5/8 and there are feelers already, I understand for him to move. Auckland was the team I referred to. And I would suggest he is probably a little miffed at playing second row because his own manager indicated he was concerned when Foran was added and he suggested he may look elsewhere. Now Schuster quickly denied that, but managers respond to what their clients ask for otherwise they lose the client, so I think its safe to say Schuster was concerned. He's just not wanting to make an issue of it at this stage, and as reported he's quite a shy lad. I think there's no doubt he loves being at Manly and seems to have many mates coming through. But there will come a time when he gains more kudos, more status, more confidence, that he will seriously ask the question...can I do better elsewhere financially and in the position I prefer. Most players do the same dont they?

And I'm not sure how I can be arguing against myself. Please explain and the Lady would say. I'm certainly not suggesting that Schuster hasn't gained playing in the forwards and I did say he was tough and being one of the two 80 minute forwards showed a lot of heart. As usual its not an either or, its about where he is better suited. I personally was impressed with his first season, but I also think the work load and position he was in stilted his creativity.. And at 20 that is not surprising.
My mistake - head off to the Warriors then (or head off anywhere - I was simply referring to your oft-stated concern that he will leave Manly because of how Des is using him.)

As for you arguing against yourself - that was a light-hearted reference to you saying he is already better than Glenn Stewart, which to some observers, could certainly be seen as placing unrealistic expectations on him.

I meant no offence, simply find the discussion interesting enough to add my 2 cents. :)
 
like to see Schuster improve a bit with front on defence , tends to follow an attacking player a bit and drop off the odd tackle a bit . Olakatu - atu and Jake of course are more direct hitters and again would prefer Josh adapt his style more to this technique . Certainly big and strong enough to take on opposing forwards more head on , attack can only improve and will always have those excellent skills .More then capable of being a good enough 6 in i st grade but again just think that the trend is not conductive to him being overly suited there and especially with his present playing size . Look at the top no 6 "s going around now , Cody Walker , Munster ,. Luai , Keary , Wighton , Dylan Walker , . Josh playing attributes and size on current indications again seems more suited to back row and edges . Way to early to be comparing Josh with the likes of Gifty , career is heading in the right direction and very hopefully can at least match Glen "s great contribution at Manly if not surpass it .


I think this is a question of perception Manly Al. Firstly you're comparing a 50-60 minute player to an 80 minute player when you compare Olak with Shoe. Secondly The Shoe's defence total for the game is somewhat higher than Olak's on average. In fact only Jake and Croker had a higher tackling average, with Taupau being comparable. No other forward came close. The Shoes tackling percentage is around 93.5% efficiency at 28 tackles per match, one the the highest in the team. Olak's defence stats are averaging 21 tackles per match at 91.3% efficiency. Positionally Schuster also tends to tackle wider, covers more ground. Thing is big hits stand out but the general grunt work often is missed.
 
As much as we all admire Foran and are happy he will be in our squad in 2022 there is just question you need to answer to settle who should be our 5/8 next season?
Q: Which player is our future?
 
like to see Schuster improve a bit with front on defence , tends to follow an attacking player a bit and drop off the odd tackle a bit . Olakatu - atu and Jake of course are more direct hitters and again would prefer Josh adapt his style more to this technique . Certainly big and strong enough to take on opposing forwards more head on , attack can only improve and will always have those excellent skills .More then capable of being a good enough 6 in i st grade but again just think that the trend is not conductive to him being overly suited there and especially with his present playing size . Look at the top no 6 "s going around now , Cody Walker , Munster ,. Luai , Keary , Wighton , Dylan Walker , . Josh playing attributes and size on current indications again seems more suited to back row and edges . Way to early to be comparing Josh with the likes of Gifty , career is heading in the right direction and very hopefully can at least match Glen "s great contribution at Manly if not surpass it .
actually meant Dylan Brown from the Eels and not Dylan Wallker as a current well performed 6 , not that Walker could not still do well there . Wish Dylan [ Walker ] would make up his mind , getting a bit tedious with his drawn out negotiations , can "t be that hard to make a decision after so long .
 
I think this is a question of perception Manly Al. Firstly you're comparing a 50-60 minute player to an 80 minute player when you compare Olak with Shoe. Secondly The Shoe's defence total for the game is somewhat higher than Olak's on average. In fact only Jake and Croker had a higher tackling average, with Taupau being comparable. No other forward came close. The Shoes tackling percentage is around 93.5% efficiency at 28 tackles per match, one the the highest in the team. Olak's defence stats are averaging 21 tackles per match at 91.3% efficiency. Positionally Schuster also tends to tackle wider, covers more ground. Thing is big hits stand out but the general grunt work often is missed.
Josh does occasionally drop of tackles with more of a following tendency sometime , Just saying at an edge[ or edge role ] prefer more direct on or front on defence , not necessarily big hits . Thought that Olakatu - atu was essentially an 80 minute player , can 't recall him only playing 50 - 60 minutes at any stage when he was in the back row last season .
 
Clubs need to succession plan. He learned to defend in the back row in 2021. He showed he still has plenty to learn with composure. But he needs to make those learnings at 6 in 2022 for mine.
 
Josh does occasionally drop of tackles with more of a following tendency sometime , Just saying at an edge[ or edge role ] prefer more direct on or front on defence , not necessarily big hits . Thought that Olakatu - atu was essentially an 80 minute player , can 't recall him only playing 50 - 60 minutes at any stage when he was in the back row last season .


Checked back and in the last half of the season and you are right, Olak did play 80 minutes for many of the games and was not off the field long in others. Mind you Schuster plays consistently the 80. Actually enhances Schuster's defence then given he averages 28 and Olak 21 and he has a superior efficiency rate. Obviously you don't see Olak falling off tackles but he must if his efficiency rate is inferior.
 

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