Roobin Garrick sucks

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LeonardCohen

Bencher
What impresses me about Garrick, is his professionalism. He usually tends to make the right decisions and seems to have a calm manner in dealing with issues on the field. I know sometimes he seems to be a little shaky in defense, but as Bozo has rightly pointed out, his defense stats suggest he's one of the better centre defenders. Talau's defense is only 72%, Turbo 70% young Hopa at this stage 67% and Koula 81%. So Garrick's 86.6% looks pretty decent. Mind you wingers and full backs always rate low in tackle efficiency given their frequent exposure to open field runners. However Bozo's point is quite valid and again points out the elements of my regular sermon that perception is never as accurate as stats. If someone is identified as having a fault, you will tend to look for it, thus reinforcing the belief. Stats often suggest otherwise.

Mind you I prefer Garrick on the wing and Talau at centre but that is more personal preference more based on the complete game of the respective players.
Perception is often more accurate than stats. Your sermon is misguided. Are you prepared to say that basically the entire RL community has their eyes painted on in thinking that State of Origin centre Crichton is an inferior defensive centre to Ruben Garrick, based on tackle efficiency statistics? Answer yes or no without a riddle please.
 

HK_Eagle

First Grader
Premium Member
What impresses me about Garrick, is his professionalism. He usually tends to make the right decisions and seems to have a calm manner in dealing with issues on the field. I know sometimes he seems to be a little shaky in defense, but as Bozo has rightly pointed out, his defense stats suggest he's one of the better centre defenders. Talau's defense is only 72%, Turbo 70% young Hopa at this stage 67% and Koula 81%. So Garrick's 86.6% looks pretty decent. Mind you wingers and full backs always rate low in tackle efficiency given their frequent exposure to open field runners. However Bozo's point is quite valid and again points out the elements of my regular sermon that perception is never as accurate as stats. If someone is identified as having a fault, you will tend to look for it, thus reinforcing the belief. Stats often suggest otherwise.

Mind you I prefer Garrick on the wing and Talau at centre but that is more personal preference more based on the complete game of the respective players.
Garrick’s telling defensive stat looked great as he dropped off To’o for two of his tries.
 

Disco

First Grader
Premium Member
Garrick’s telling defensive stat looked great as he dropped off To’o for two of his tries.

Are you talking the first and second tries?

To be honest I think it is simplistic and harsh to attribute those last ditch efforts when To'o is in space for the reason the tries were scored.

To'o scores minimum 9 out of 10 in those situations.

The damage is done earlier.

If you look at the first try (image below), you can see DCE has been pulled in by the edge backrower. This creates a 3 on 2 and it is effectively game over.

Garrick and Saab have to come in and Garrick actually does well to then pivot and get to To'o however To'o is to good in space a couple of metres out.

Its lazy to blame Garrick or Saab there IMO.
 

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Disco

First Grader
Premium Member
Second try (image below) there is certainly some blame to go to Garrick but he was a contributor not the sole issue.

Garrick allows his centre to get on his outside because DCE allows his edge to get on his outside. This space leads to Saab to decide to come in. It's a chain reaction.

Now, Garrick was good odds to get his centre with Hoppa in support so ultimately Saab should have trusted his inside man. But split second decision.

All 3 contribute.

Again there is a last ditch attempt by Garrick and Lehi but again the damage is already done.
 

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MW66

Reserve Grader
What is not clear to me is why is Talau (who has been very good) playing on the wing when he is a centre and why is Garrick (who is an excellent winger) playing in the centre.

You hear reports that Garrick "has a contract clause stating he must play centre". I am not sure if this is true and I dont want to do Garrick a disservice if it is not. However look at the Dragons. Lomax wants to play centre but Flanagan says "your a winger mate". Lomax is leaving as a result but a standard has been set. Suli has been interviewed and admitted he came back unfit for pre-season training. Flanagan said " shape up or ship out". Suli looks fit and hungry for success.

The Manly Way can only go so far. The Dragons are setting standards - similar to what the Bulldogs are doing. Both clubs were well down on predictions for 2014 season, you can argue top squad is inferior to Eagles and yet both are above us on the table.
 

Disco

First Grader
Premium Member
Third try (image below) again shows DCE being sucked in by his edge and leaving a 3 on 2.

And again this forces Garrick and Saab to jam.

I'm not sure if DCE not have Haumole was a factor but in my view all three trys start there.
 

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HK_Eagle

First Grader
Premium Member
Are you talking the first and second tries?

To be honest I think it is simplistic and harsh to attribute those last ditch efforts when To'o is in space for the reason the tries were scored.

To'o scores minimum 9 out of 10 in those situations.

The damage is done earlier.

If you look at the first try (image below), you can see DCE has been pulled in by the edge backrower. This creates a 3 on 2 and it is effectively game over.

Garrick and Saab have to come in and Garrick actually does well to then pivot and get to To'o however To'o is to good in space a couple of metres out.

Its lazy to blame Garrick or Saab there IMO.
Completely agree, he is not the sole problem in our defence. That right side has been problematic for years and I believe DCE has to carry quite a bit of the blame with his tendency to rush up and in, dragging outside defenders with him.

However, Garrick had a clear shot at To’o for that first try with time and space to reach him. His technique was not good enough against a good hard runner, and he fell off the tackle. He even had time while coming across to cover to momentarily check his momentum before going into the tackle. He had every right to make that tackle, IMO.
 

LeonardCohen

Bencher
Third try (image below) again shows DCE being sucked in by his edge and leaving a 3 on 2.

And again this forces Garrick and Saab to jam.

I'm not sure if DCE not have Haumole was a factor but in my view all three trys start there.
I think you’re correct in the notion that Garrick is not solely to blame and that the right edge has been suspect for years, but it isn’t really DCE’s fault either.

Most teams attack best from left to right…look at Johnston’s 190 tries, Sivo’s 90 in 100 games. Radradra was the same. Kikau is destroying teams down the same edge, Walsh and Ponga do their best work out the back of shape down the same side. The list goes on.

If an edge cops more traffic, and it’s effective traffic, naturally it looks like a problem. I’m not suggesting we don’t have work to do, just explaining why it’s the ‘problem edge’.

Then you’ve got the tries from the weekend. The first of which sees Aloiai, Hopoate, Lawton and Jake T all interested in one dummy half, and Haumole turning his shoulders in to protect the JFH unders line. That’s five players worried about two Panthers (I guess three, considering Luai is out the back). Haumole peels off and has eyes for Luai. At this point, DCE turns in and looks to take Sorensen who runs to DCE’s outside shoulder, which is an obstruction, only that Daly wraps his arms, indicating a defensive decision, nullifying any chance of a ‘no try’.

The Panthers ran the play with serious depth, preventing Garrick and Saab from hitting in to shut it down.

So why did it happen? Partly to do with the Sorensen obstruction (if Daly is smarter there, it gets called back but he wrapped his arms and it cost us). The other is the fatigue and subsequent lack of push from Olakau’atu to get up hard and stay connected with Chez (trusting that Lawton and Aloiai would handle JFH). He put Daly in a compromising position, where he had to worry about the show-and-go from Luai, the short ball to the lead runner and the peel off to chase Laurie out. I don’t think Chez is ‘sucked in’ by the lead runner, he is coached to hold and peel off when the ball goes out the back.

Handle to opposition pack better to stay fresh in defence and you mitigate the threat of effective shifts from quality opposition. Which speaks to the next try that does not happen if Laurie is not allowed to run 15 metres in behind the ruck and generate a rapid play-the-ball that basically means Daly, Garrick, and Saab are all still trying to get back onside as six Panthers line up to run the next play. It was a six on three with Brown managing to just get back inside as Luai caught the ball.
 
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Disco

First Grader
Premium Member
I think you’re correct in the notion that Garrick is not solely to blame and that the right edge has been suspect for years, but it isn’t really DCE’s fault either.

Most teams attack best from left to right…look at Johnston’s 190 tries, Sivo’s 90 in 100 games. Radradra was the same. Kikau is destroying teams down the same edge, Walsh and Ponga do their best work out the back of shape down the same side. The list goes on.

If an edge cops more traffic, and it’s effective traffic, naturally it looks like a problem. I’m not suggesting we don’t have work to do, just explaining why it’s the ‘problem edge’.

Then you’ve got the tries from the weekend. The first of which sees Aloiai, Hopoate, Lawton and Jake T all interested in one dummy half, and Haumole turning his shoulders in to protect the JFH unders line. That’s five players worried about two Panthers (I guess three, considering Luai is out the back). Haumole peels off and has eyes for Luai. At this point, DCE turns in and looks to take Sorensen who runs to DCE’s outside shoulder, which is an obstruction, only that Daly wraps his arms, indicating a defensive decision, nullifying any chance of a ‘no try’.

The Panthers ran the play with serious depth, preventing Garrick and Saab from hitting in to shut it down.

So why did it happen? Partly to do with the Sorensen obstruction (if Daly is smarter there, it gets called back but he wrapped his arms and it cost us). The other is the fatigue and subsequent lack of push from Olakau’atu to get up hard and stay connected with Chez (trusting that Lawton and Aloiai would handle JFH). He put Daly in a compromising position, where he had to worry about the show-and-go from Luai, the short ball to the lead runner and the peel off to chase Laurie out. I don’t think Chez is ‘sucked in’ by the lead runner, he is coached to hold and peel off when the ball goes out the back.

Handle to opposition pack better to stay fresh in defence and you mitigate the threat of effective shifts from quality opposition.
See, this is how I like to discuss footy on here.

Too many petulant 'so and so is ***' and 'x player is soft' nonsense and not enough reasoned arguements.

You are right, a lot of our issues on the edges stem from our failure to win the ruck.
 

lsz

First Grader
Staff member
Was just about to say that you can not look at the problems in our team without going back to the issues we have in the ruck both with the ball and without. It is easy to blame the fellas where the try is being scored and overlook the people that let them charge up the field with ease
 

LeonardCohen

Bencher
See, this is how I like to discuss footy on here.

Too many petulant 'so and so is ***' and 'x player is soft' nonsense and not enough reasoned arguements.

You are right, a lot of our issues on the edges stem from our failure to win the ruck.
Yep and the next To’o try is an even better example. It was a six on three because Laurie danced straight through our middles, in behind the ruck, generated a quick play-the-ball and the poor right edge was back-pedalling to get inside as Luai charged forward with options inside and out.
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Was just about to say that you can not look at the problems in our team without going back to the issues we have in the ruck both with the ball and without. It is easy to blame the fellas where the try is being scored and overlook the people that let them charge up the field with ease
^^^^^
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
 

danny-boy

Reserve Grader
For ****s sake Garrick has been named in the centres again.

Someone call Dr. Strange and ask him if he sees any reality where Manly makes the 8 with Garrick at centre.
 

HoldenV8

Journey Man
I personally think Garricks defence at centre is coming along. Its certainly better than it was at the start of the season.

I'm really torn because we have a centre who is killing it on the wing but should be in the centres ... while both of our centres are IMO better suited to the wing.
 

Darknstormy

Reserve Grader
Garrick is a classic whinging winger not a whinging centre he needs to be where he whinges the best..to much hopping not enough whinging atm
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Poor Garrick and stats

Yes we often lose the ruck and yes the impact is far reaching. The reasons why we lose the ruck are varied and is a all of team problem. Very few in our team look to win it. Jake gets crucified for trying to slow it down by fans and refs and the frog who has a lot on dominant tackles has been missing but our ruck has been leaky for ages, most of our issues are the same as 5 years ago

But Rushing up is about leading the defensive line, not staggering it and flying solo Unless you make a tackle , not just abort the process once the attack swans past, but a great stat would be how many times this season that staggered line has cost us.its huge.

Rushing up Is a good tactic used all over the field in many positions but rushing up and coming home with air is all about a poor read. A read under pressure but a poor read if it starts 3 on 3.

The rush up has become habitual rather than reading the play and acting accordingly and is more about trying to turn the attack back inside than taking the man thus the early leave

Winning the ruck would help no end but these plays still have be executed correctly or slide in defence. Its not the only choice, but it is the easiest.

Is it working for us. Not many memories of it working anyway

Our attack slides no end, why not defence in this situation

Just on ruck speed DCE doesnt get tackled much but his play the ball speed looks like me getting out of bed in the morning, after falling asleep wearing skinny jeans

Standards are set by leaders, and our coaches have been soft

Accepting mediocrity without consequence has cost us for years. Footy is for the ruthless. We are the nice guys, but with Nathan Brown LOL @ manly
 

Heckenberg

Reserve Grader
If this is true, then more fool the club for agreeing to a clause like that.

I still don't understand why blokes wouldn't want to play on the wing in today's NRL.

Wingers are a vitally important part of the modern game, and get game involvement just about every set.
Maybe that’s the reason. Easier to slack off at centre.
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Was just about to say that you can not look at the problems in our team without going back to the issues we have in the ruck both with the ball and without. It is easy to blame the fellas where the try is being scored and overlook the people that let them charge up the field with ease
Absolutely , I dont actually think manly would be anywhere near the top on any of the 1% plays of which there are many. We are a heads up footy team that looks to enjoy breezy saturdays at the beach and long walks in the park with the kavoodles

I think Manly still works and trains hard , they just havnt grasped the NRL . The club is a fair way behind, despite some competitive results

They have been in most contests but still seem a long way off
 
There's the nucleus of a really good footy team there, no one should have thought Manly would win the comp this year, but watching Garrick who is easily in the top ten-fifteen wingers, and does a great job at fullback all at sea is so frustrating. DCE reads the attack a lot quicker than his outside man most times and reacts to it often leaving them to catch up and pulling the line out of shape, he doesn't seem to have this when he's in the Qld team, intensity/better players inside and outside maybe?

Sironen was probably the best foil he had when he was at the club but the good teams know there's always a chance down that corridor.
 

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