Josh Aloiai, and membership discussions.

[Ryan]

Already bringing bad headlines to our door step and he hasn’t even signed with us yet.

I have a bad feeling about this bloke.

Hey mate, this kind of thing isn't the player per say (I wouldn't be blaming him), he'd be getting advice and driven by his management.

The point of difference, is that Des, Crusher and co. were dumb enough to buy AFB's rhetoric, and The Tigers want due and appropriate compensation like a normal professional operation would.

This is Tyrone Smith.

 

[Supreme Leader]

Surely if he's sacked the contract is finished.
Although maybe the NRL could refuse to register a new deal with us. Not sure if there is any precedent for this situation?
Players in the past have only been sacked for bringing the game into disrepute, eg Todd Carney, Barba. Bit of a stretch to say wanting to play for Manly is bringing the game into disrepute!

If he said he wanted to play for us wouldn't they medically retire him on compassionate grounds under concussion rules?

 

[Simonmyers11]

To be honest, Tigers are turning this into a shi&t storm. Their management is the worst in the NRL. The bloke doesn't want to be there, why dont they just release him like every other club seems to do. And why is it ok for them to poach players like Laurie from Penrith who was contracted until end of 2021. Ridiculous! They would rather pay his full salary and make him stay at home then release him to another club and free up their own cap. Dumb arses

 

[The better Robbo]

Hey mate, this kind of thing isn't the player per say (I wouldn't be blaming him), he'd be getting advice and driven by his management.

The point of difference, is that Des, Crusher and co. were dumb enough to buy AFB's rhetoric, and The Tigers want due and appropriate compensation like a normal professional operation would.

This is Tyrone Smith.

I would say Manly and Warriors handled the AFB situation a lot better than Tigers management
For a boss to come out and say he can mow lawns for his money is hardly professional management.

 

[Woodsie]

I would say Manly and Warriors handled the AFB situation a lot better than Tigers management

Why, because when he asked for a release we simply said yes .. off you go ... have a good trip ? The only reason that could happen is if we weren't that upset about it ...

Let's see what our reaction would be if Tommy comes to training next week and says he has met a girl that lives in Newcastle and he wants an immediate release to go there ....

Or if Schuster comes to training and says he wants out now because Easts have offered him more money ...

Or Jake says he won't be back ... he has always dreamed of playing for Parramatta ...

When both parties agree .. or compensation is available .. it can be a mutually beneficial situation .. but I see no reason why a club must bend over and play nice without the benefit of a reach around when a player simply decides to break a contract and walk out ...

 

[Ryan]

I would say Manly and Warriors handled the AFB situation a lot better than Tigers management
For a boss to come out and say he can mow lawns for his money is hardly professional management.

Honestly, Manly handled it pathetically. To lose possibly one of the worlds best, younger, elite forwards, and to receive nothing but nominal monetary compensation (not included in cap compensation) is ridiculous (and i'd be making a LOL @ Manly thread in their forums if I was one of their fans).

At least wrangle Ken Maumalo out of them. Something.

Des has let go players like Kelly, Thompson, Fonua-Blake all under contract, and received absolute doughnuts in return (yet people around the league world question Manly's depth). Terrible recruitment. Least Barrett used to be able to attract players unlike Des. Hear Barrett also just landed JAC (for 2022), on top of Cotric, Flanagan, Hetherington & others. Guarantee Koroisou lands there as well.

At least Des re-signs a bloke potentially going to jail and can't play for another 18 odd months, that helps I guess

 

[Kevinward777]

To be honest, Tigers are turning this into a shi&t storm. Their management is the worst in the NRL. The bloke doesn't want to be there, why dont they just release him like every other club seems to do. And why is it ok for them to poach players like Laurie from Penrith who was contracted until end of 2021. Ridiculous! They would rather pay his full salary and make him stay at home then release him to another club and free up their own cap. Dumb arses

Hilarious isn't it.

 

[Kevinward777]

Why, because when he asked for a release we simply said yes .. off you go ... have a good trip ? The only reason that could happen is if we weren't that upset about it ...

Let's see what our reaction would be if Tommy comes to training next week and says he has met a girl that lives in Newcastle and he wants an immediate release to go there ....

Or if Schuster comes to training and says he wants out now because Easts have offered him more money ...

Or Jake says he won't be back ... he has always dreamed of playing for Parramatta ...

When both parties agree .. or compensation is available .. it can be a mutually beneficial situation .. but I see no reason why a club must bend over and play nice without the benefit of a reach around when a player simply decides to break a contract and walk out ...

Unfortunately, I find myself agreeing whole heartedly with this post. Went to hit the winner trophy but thought better of it.

 

[The better Robbo]

Why, because when he asked for a release we simply said yes .. off you go ... have a good trip ? The only reason that could happen is if we weren't that upset about it ...

Let's see what our reaction would be if Tommy comes to training next week and says he has met a girl that lives in Newcastle and he wants an immediate release to go there ....

Or if Schuster comes to training and says he wants out now because Easts have offered him more money ...

Or Jake says he won't be back ... he has always dreamed of playing for Parramatta ...

When both parties agree .. or compensation is available .. it can be a mutually beneficial situation .. but I see no reason why a club must bend over and play nice without the benefit of a reach around when a player simply decides to break a contract and walk out ...

You answered your own question. I have no doubt Manly were happy to free up the cap space from AFB and I'm sure by the time we finalise our squad most will see that it was extremely beneficial. Tigers boss was extremely unprofessional to come out and say he can mow lawns. These comments are not needed and should any comment should stay in house! When is the last time a player was forced to stay at a club when he wanted out? I'm all for Tigers standing firm and its this exact reason I think they should bring in the rule where if you are under contract, you can't break that contract to go to another club for more money! It would stop all this crap that keeps happening. And remember that you can re sign for more money at your current club if you have a "break out season" and your value goes up.

 

[47MVEagle]

I honestly dont see the point of forcing a player who doesnt want to be there to stay.

I know it makes a mockery of the concept of a binding contract, but if a situation is so toxic that a player wants out, forcing them to stay can only result in negative outcomes:

1. The club wont get the best out of the player.
2. The club still has to pay the player while he's there.
3. The player could cause dissent & rifts within the playing & coaching staff, further undermining the team.

I dont think Manly have been weak in letting AFB go as easily as it appeared to be to us - I'm sure there was far more to it than we are aware of & I think Manly handled it really well. It was over & done with in a week, no more has been said about it in the media & it freed up ~$800k in our salary cap.

Meanwhile over at Tigertown, forcing Aloiai to stay has resulted in 2-3 weeks of negative headlines for the club & a protracted drama that will no doubt be affecting other players & staff there, not to mention highlighting the club's hypocrisy in going after other currently contracted players.

 

[Woodsie]

You answered your own question. I have no doubt Manly were happy to free up the cap space from AFB and I'm sure by the time we finalise our squad most will see that it was extremely beneficial. Tigers boss was extremely unprofessional to come out and say he can mow lawns. These comments are not needed and should any comment should stay in house! When is the last time a player was forced to stay at a club when he wanted out? I'm all for Tigers standing firm and its this exact reason I think they should bring in the rule where if you are under contract, you can't break that contract to go to another club for more money! It would stop all this crap that keeps happening. And remember that you can re sign for more money at your current club if you have a "break out season" and your value goes up.

Agree about the comment about mowing lawns being unprofessional .. it was a bitchy response to Aloaoaiiaooai's comment that he would never play for Tigers again ... it was meant to imply that he would still be contracted at Tigers next year even wasn't going to play .. he could mow the lawns ..

I applaud Tigers (in principle) for making a stand ... to me the onus is on the player and the club that wants him to come up with a deal that Tigers will settle for ...

 

[simon64]

Why, because when he asked for a release we simply said yes .. off you go ... have a good trip ? The only reason that could happen is if we weren't that upset about it ...

Let's see what our reaction would be if Tommy comes to training next week and says he has met a girl that lives in Newcastle and he wants an immediate release to go there ....

Or if Schuster comes to training and says he wants out now because Easts have offered him more money ...

Or Jake says he won't be back ... he has always dreamed of playing for Parramatta ...

When both parties agree .. or compensation is available .. it can be a mutually beneficial situation .. but I see no reason why a club must bend over and play nice without the benefit of a reach around when a player simply decides to break a contract and walk out ...

Hey.....don't even joke about sh!t like this Woodsie. Oh....my heart. Call an ambulance quick.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

No body would be restraining his trade ... he could still ply his trade as a professional footballer and play in EPL, the QLD cup, the NSW Cup and RU, Japanese Rugby or Lingerie Football .. but just not the NRL ..

He has contracted to provide his services for next year ... if he deliberately fails to do so ... any action would be to stop him providing them elsewhere for the period of time contracted ... I am no legal expert, but I would say a players contract would have some fairly good punitive clauses for players that willfully break a contract .. otherwise he would already be at Manly ....

If a club wanted to get rid of a player on $400k a year early... they would have to pay the player the full $400k out ... Are you suggesting that the same contract would allow a player can just walk out on his contract with absolutely no repercussions ??

I am not contract law specialist but if it was that easy to stop a player walking out - wouldn't clubs have tried it before. I just can't see the NRL having anything in the contracts which state that if you don't honour a contract you can't play for anyone else. Then there is the line of "honour" - what is to honour or whatever the words might be in a contract? I just can't see it being that easy to stop a player moving... because if it was clubs would have used that a million times before now. Clubs can move players on and not uphold the contract requirements and decide to shift someone - I can't possible see that a contract would let the clubs do that but a player is outlawed from the NRL if he does it. Sorry just can't see that at all.

 

[Red Pill]

I am not contract law specialist but if it was that easy to stop a player walking out - wouldn't clubs have tried it before. I just can't see the NRL having anything in the contracts which state that if you don't honour a contract you can't play for anyone else. Then there is the line of "honour" - what is to honour or whatever the words might be in a contract? I just can't see it being that easy to stop a player moving... because if it was clubs would have used that a million times before now. Clubs can move players on and not uphold the contract requirements and decide to shift someone - I can't possible see that a contract would let the clubs do that but a player is outlawed from the NRL if he does it. Sorry just can't see that at all.

I think clubs would have remedy to deter players from abandoning their contracts. One is sacking ( termination for breach) as the tigers have threatened and if enacted upon the NRL likely deregistering the player. ( unable to sign with another club for a period time) All contracts should have termination clauses.
In the case of Josh he wants out really because the tigers have offered him as it seems less money for an extension than what he believes he is worth. Manly seemingly have offered him more! He has the perception the tigers are offering him an extension under the market rate ( based upon what another team is willing to offer) With a players career span around 8-10 years on average it is in their interest to ensure that are at least getting the market rate for their services. I think Josh feels just as betrayed by the Tigers ( below market offer) as the tigers do about about his attempts to break his current contract. If the Tiger’s offer an him extension at the perceived market rate this issue would have never occurred. In a technical sense however I do believe regardless of this that Josh should honour his contract. I don’t believe however the Tigers issue with him however is really a case of upholding principles as they claim.

 

[eagleron]

Why, because when he asked for a release we simply said yes .. off you go ... have a good trip ? The only reason that could happen is if we weren't that upset about it ...

Let's see what our reaction would be if Tommy comes to training next week and says he has met a girl that lives in Newcastle and he wants an immediate release to go there ....

Or if Schuster comes to training and says he wants out now because Easts have offered him more money ...

Or Jake says he won't be back ... he has always dreamed of playing for Parramatta ...

When both parties agree .. or compensation is available .. it can be a mutually beneficial situation .. but I see no reason why a club must bend over and play nice without the benefit of a reach around when a player simply decides to break a contract and walk out ...

But has anyone ever dreamed of playing for Parramatta? Bit of a stretch

 

[Tragic Eagle]

The tigers are already talking to alternative props. Their problem is that they are trying to off load Packer and Reynolds and can’t but that’s a product of their own recruitment choices. The Tigers stance is dumb. Either offer him an upgrade or let him go. Until the NRL reel this in clubs, players and managers will keep negotiating with contracted players a year early.

 

[globaleagle]

Surely if he's sacked the contract is finished.
Although maybe the NRL could refuse to register a new deal with us. Not sure if there is any precedent for this situation?
Players in the past have only been sacked for bringing the game into disrepute, eg Todd Carney, Barba. Bit of a stretch to say wanting to play for Manly is bringing the game into disrepute!

I wish I asked that during our blake green saga.

Barrett said at the time green was saying he wasn't going to turn up to training, etc, so they let him go (if true).

there was no talk about the nrl not renewing another contract if he was sacked?

Too may variables I guess.

Green - manly said go
Aloiai - tiger saying stay.

Both players said/say they don't wanna be at their respective clubs

waffle waffle

 

[sheridanstand78]

For old timers like myself, I struggle when I see players breaking contracts to leave for other clubs and showing no loyalty to anyone but themselves.

It is the era we are in and I think if a player approached the management about being unhappy or wanting to move on, I think its fair if the club says in return, if you want to leave it needs to be before we have an adequate replacement for you, that to me is fair. I am no fan of the Drizzle but I like their stance over Addo Carr.

For me it comes down to guys who want to play for the club, keep them at all costs and move on as fast as possible those who do not want to be here.

The AFB situation was dealt with very fast. I would like to think that the club put their foot down about his demands and behaviour during the 2020 season. As long as we are not footing any of his salary and that we can get an adequate replacement it will be OK.

Aloiai had got himself into a pickle at the Tigers and again the players demands to leave and gives the Tigpies no time to get in a replacement.

I would really like to see a transfer window to open from the weekend after the season ends till the end of January and that players can be traded or swap clubs as it will give time for clubs to line up replacements. We had the predicament in 2015 trying to keep DCE and Foran.

 

[Brisbane Tragic]

I think clubs would have remedy to deter players from abandoning their contracts. One is sacking ( termination for breach) as the tigers have threatened and if enacted upon the NRL likely deregistering the player. ( unable to sign with another club for a period time) All contracts should have termination clauses.
In the case of Josh he wants out really because the tigers have offered him as it seems less money for an extension than what he believes he is worth. Manly seemingly have offered him more! He has the perception the tigers are offering him an extension under the market rate ( based upon what another team is willing to offer) With a players career span around 8-10 years on average it is in their interest to ensure that are at least getting the market rate for their services. I think Josh feels just as betrayed by the Tigers ( below market offer) as the tigers do about about his attempts to break his current contract. If the Tiger’s offer an him extension at the perceived market rate this issue would have never occurred. In a technical sense however I do believe regardless of this that Josh should honour his contract. I don’t believe however the Tigers issue with him however is really a case of upholding principles as they claim.

Soo it is ok for clubs to shift players they don't want but not for players to seek releases???? I must be missing something. My honest position is that neither player or club should be able to break a contract but...... clubs always can put a player in an untenable position by putting them in reserve grade so they are forced to leave or just saying we refuse to pick you... how is that different to Aloiai saying I refuse to play? And I don't want to hear this BS that as long as there is an agreement between club and player about the move and that as long as the club is compensated. In the main the number of players being unhappy with being offloaded exceeds the mutually agreed departures. Either we have contracts that apply equally to both clubs and players or we dont - seems simple to me. Clubs can't scream like the Wests Tigers are but then are keen to get rid of players they don't want like Reynolds or are keen to try and buy a player from another club and have them break a contract. The biggest load of double standards ever!

 

[Deleted member 26876]

Anyone saying Siro should be let go is nuts he has been great for us. Just needs to learn how to pass. Garner is nowhere near better than Sironen

I just don’t think he really has a big physical impact in attack. Sure he’s good for morale but he tends to be pretty quiet and inconsistent unless it regards inside angled runs and tigers games (where we’ve been losing anyway). More injuries now again and I think he’s a sinking ship.

Time to move on and up.Garner is young, so is Olakautau and personally I’d prefer both (even Jetski as he has a great tryscoring combo with dce and is more consistently involved).

Very harsh I know but he is just Trent Barrett average for mine, and inconsistent. If he stays he needs to learn to pass again.