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Kiwi Eagle

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class player, defensively holds us together in the middle, but I am not sure we are using him correctly in attack.

He is a strong ball carrier but he has gone away from that this season and has become more of a link man. For me we are much more dangerous if his first thought is run and everything else flows off that, rather than what we have him doing at the moment, which is link first and run second

Tonight is a great example of that, not sure how accurate the stats are at the top of the game thread, but after 75mins, Jake had 53m. He should be a 120m+ man off the back of Taupau and AFB
 
class player, defensively holds us together in the middle, but I am not sure we are using him correctly in attack.

He is a strong ball carrier but he has gone away from that this season and has become more of a link man. For me we are much more dangerous if his first thought is run and everything else flows off that, rather than what we have him doing at the moment, which is link first and run second

Tonight is a great example of that, not sure how accurate the stats are at the top of the game thread, but after 75mins, Jake had 53m. He should be a 120m+ man off the back of Taupau and AFB

With the amount of defence he gets through, at times he has 3 tackles in a row that he has any energy for more metres. Tonight especially the amount of extra defence and lack of ideas wouldn't have helped the situation. But when Tom comes back Jake feeds off him in attack and that will change
 
Just said the same in the 3 2 1 thread. Des has blunted his attacking game big time.
But that is the opposite of what Kiwi is saying. He thinks Jake is ball playing more and running less. I think he takes more hits this year than previous seasons where he ball played on block shapes more frequently.

I don't mind him running more and passing less because I think we went too sideways under Barrett and Jake is straightening things this year.
 
His offload and sneaky ball back on the inside has also gone missing. Not many big plays from him this year apart from big tackles. He needed to step up and run 1st and think pass 2nd. Fainu has also been ineffective last few weeks not giving the punch we need. Tof is also a bigger loss as boyle is a joke
 
But that is the opposite of what Kiwi is saying. He thinks Jake is ball playing more and running less. I think he takes more hits this year than previous seasons where he ball played on block shapes more frequently.

I don't mind him running more and passing less because I think we went too sideways under Barrett and Jake is straightening things this year.
No I think we are saying the same thing - I think he offers better value in attack ball playing at, or through, the line. At the moment he is either just passing it on well before the line or dying with the ball. His role just seems really structured this year.
 
No I think we are saying the same thing - I think he offers better value in attack ball playing at, or through, the line. At the moment he is either just passing it on well before the line or dying with the ball. His role just seems really structured this year.
I don't disagree with your appraisal of Jake's game but I must be misinterpreting what Kiwi is saying. Under Baz, I feel that Jake passed more...Kiwi is saying that he is passing more now (more of a link) but I think he is taking more hit ups this year and passing out the back less.
 
Unfortunately Jake has to double down on tackling when Fainu comes on, as Fanui is lazy as in D.
 
His offload and sneaky ball back on the inside has also gone missing. Not many big plays from him this year apart from big tackles. He needed to step up and run 1st and think pass 2nd. Fainu has also been ineffective last few weeks not giving the punch we need. Tof is also a bigger loss as boyle is a joke
Once younger big bro comes back, he’ll be back in the saddle.
 
Not too sure about this, i agree he should run more but I think with the injuries we've had he has played a crucial role in ball playing and this has taken pressure off our inexperienced / backup halves which has generally worked for us most week. He still ran for 124m tonight, I agree maybe his running game could be a bit stronger but i genuinely just think he has somehow increased his massive workload to include a good passing game as well.
 
Unfortunately Jake has to double down on tackling when Fainu comes on, as Fanui is lazy as in D.

That was certainly the case last night. Fainu was lazy when he was on and for those 30 or so minutes, Jake had to be just about everywhere in the middle to cover for it.

Last night we fell into the trap of trying to play catch up football, in the second half especially. And when teams do that, they forget about the platform in the middle set by the props and lock and are always trying to throw the ball wide hoping for a miracle play. Jake last night was as guilty as anyone of trying to get the ball wide on early tackles. This year, to me, he's been a lot better when he runs first, passes second.

It seems that his defence will always be there, but he should remember that even though he's playing lock, essentially he's the 3rd starting prop. He does have the ball skills, but he's a prop, not the older style lock-5/8 like a Nik Kosef or Glenn Stewart were. If he's going to pass the ball I'd rather he'd do it with an offload that takes 2 or 3 defenders out of the play rather than passing it before he gets to the line.

There is one thing I think we are missing right now. Jake tends to telegraph that he is going to pass when he's running to the line, and many times the defenders will already be heading out to where they think the ball is going to go. The closer to the middle of the field, Jake will take the hit up, but out a bit wider and his first thought is to pass. With Tom in the side, they usually use that to our advantage with Tom running straight back on the inside where the defenders would have been rather than the ball going out wide. We're missing that right now because as good as he has been filling in, Brendan Elliot is not anywhere near the same class as Turbo as a support runner. And there is also the same combination with DCE that he has with his brother, but he's not there to support run right now either.

Without either Turbo or DCE there as support runners, when he's got the ball out wider I would like to see Jake develop a dummy and just run the ball rather than always looking to pass it out wide. Like I said, he tends to telegraph that he's going to pass so the defenders leave him alone knowing that he will pass. Throw a dummy here or there and he's going to catch them out.
 
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He plays for 80 minutes week in week out, makes nearly 40 tackles a game, often runs 150+ metres with the ball, plus usually runs to the line as first receiver. Consistently one of our best on ground and is an Origin no-brainer as a result.

I would be hesitant to change that formula... but if we want him to have more 'impact' like a prop (he does have it), then we could sub him off for 20-30 minutes a game and see how it works.

Everyone else would have to pick up their workload when he is off the field though.
 
He plays for 80 minutes week in week out, makes nearly 40 tackles a game, often runs 150+ metres with the ball, plus usually runs to the line as first receiver. Consistently one of our best on ground and is an Origin no-brainer as a result.

I would be hesitant to change that formula... but if we want him to have more 'impact' like a prop (he does have it), then we could sub him off for 20-30 minutes a game and see how it works.

Everyone else would have to pick up their workload when he is off the field though.

Right now we don't have the luxury to be able to sub Jake off during games. His defence in the middle is vital. I agree it might help recharge his batteries a bit, but we don't have anyone who can really come on and play 20-30 minutes in the middle with anywhere near the same level of defence that Jake has.
 
With the lack of stability in the halves this year I think there has been some adjustment in Jakes play .. but moreso each game has it's own personality and game tactics or plans can change on the run if metres and line breaks are easily gained or conversely hard to get ....

I think Jake is well suited to both roles ... I think which one he adopts is more likely a response to conditions on the field rather than any hard and fast coaching instructions ... Des would keep it quite flexible I think ...

PSS ... and Turbo following him up certainly changes things
 
Just said the same in the 3 2 1 thread. Des has blunted his attacking game big time.
JAke has been playing this way throughout his entire career as a 13. That’s why some people have in the past wanted him back as a prop. Des has not done much with Jake, I don’t know why this is all of a sudden our problem now.

He’ll be more dynamic when trbo and dce are back. The two halfs yesterday didn’t help him out at all last night so he was more predictable than normal and couldn’t run as much as he’d like because he had to do more distribution of the ball than normal
 

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