Jake - Mr In-Between?

Sea Eagle forever
Tipping Comp 2021
Definitely not a hooker. We desperately need Mase back in that role. Jake is fine. Our issue is our defensive resilience against the top teams. When we lose the possession battle by dropping the ball, going over the sideline and get pumelled with repeat sets you just know we are going to crumble. Fix that and we'll beat them all. They need to spend the summer on defensive drills till they puke.
 
Reserve Grader
Definitely not a hooker. We desperately need Mase back in that role. Jake is fine. Our issue is our defensive resilience against the top teams. When we lose the possession battle by dropping the ball, going over the sideline and get pumelled with repeat sets you just know we are going to crumble. Fix that and we'll beat them all. They need to spend the summer on defensive drills till they puke.

Your are right Mick about our defensive lapses against the bigger sides. I think that will certainly be fixed for next year especially with this years experience for some of our younger guys. In addition however, I thought we also got badly dominated in the forwards when we had the ball. That's where we lost ground, lost possession and made mistakes. We could not make ground in the forwards and hence our backs were stiffled. No free flowing attack. This was especially evident when Walker would come on and Jake would go to prop. This is where it felt like we were playing with only one middle forward....not three. I am not how / where this will get fixed for next year.
 
Apologies for taking 5 minutes out of your obviously very busy life style. Suggest you be a little more selective in future with what you read on this forum. Posts tend to be more fictional and entertaining rather than factual. Not sure if you caught up with the news recently, but we got bundled out of the semi's in spectacular fashion. So apart from leaving Jake in the same position and same role, I am interested to to understand what you would do differently next year that would give us a better result?
Not sure I have any the answers especially given Des failed this year and he is far far more knowledgeable than any of us. But sorry I will call out crazy talk when I read suggestions that are well... crazy. Jake being a hooker is crazy... Schuster a Centre - more craziness... Parker a backrower - more tom foolery etc etc. Seriously despite the doomsdayers on here I honestly don't think there is much to change. I think the improvement comes from within in the main. Haumole to be more dominant and come from the long run, Paseka to grow some more into a quality week in week out talent not just every now and again, Harper to overcome whatever injury he had in the last bit of the year, some heavy work on the defensive structures on that right side defence given DCE seems to cause some issues by racing up out of the line, Schuster to be bought in a bit closer at times to play the football ala Glenn Stewart and to be more involved like he was up till half way through the year when it seemed the game plan changed and his ball playing role changed and virtually stopped, Walker to maybe be considered to go back out to the Centres for more strike... depending on if his lateral defence is ok being out wide again and if we can replace him with another great super sub to play his role, Bullemore to add some pace and quick play the balls, maybe Davey brings that hard nosed footballers footballer to the pack if his knee is right and we haven't missed his boat with him being 30 - we need another tradesman in the pack to support Jake even if they come on from the bench so if not Davey - maybe someone else from another club, we add a classy young centre to the squad from outside the club, injuries to be kind to us - they were pretty damn good to us this year and we need that again next year. But yes... sorry - if crap is well crap then I will say it how it is - and that it is crap. Now with Jake being suddenly turned into a hooker - people seem to think you can just swap positions really easily. In the main it doesn't happen and very few players can just swap positions significantly like that and be successful. History tells us all that. Anyway - despite the we got bundled out in spectacular fashion comment I look at the game very differently. If the Garrick try is a try - Turbo doesn't drop it, the Keppie pass to DCE sticks, DCE grubbers for SAAB instead of falling into touch and the ball bounces a bit differently on those two tries and Parker is in the Centres and Keppie not off injured I strongly suggest the game is a very very different outcome and we wouldn't be having this discussion. And most of those things were like a millimeter either way - a different outcome. Our ability to be more resilient through adversity also needs to change - that in the main is all mental plus the need for that other tradesman forward I mentioned. But we need to keep our attack at all costs - just be slightly more disciplined. Contrary to popular belief we aint too far away! Normally I don't bother responding to people goading me to respond. But I had two minutes to spare in my busy life.
 
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Reserve Grader
Jake is perplexing. Manly through-and-through, a team leader, defensive workhorse... but lacks the impact forward packs need in the modern game. I wonder if the same would be true of Glenn Stewart now? But Glenn played in sides with the relentless Anthony Watmough and in our premiership sides some no-frills hit-it-up and tackle second rower. Our second row has other attributes but neither Schuster or Ola are best used in those roles. As an aside to complete the brothers' comparison, I thought and still think Tom doesn't have the instincts or speed of brain and hands that Brett had, which made him do freakish things, but Tom has grown into his power and size to match his speed probably making him eventually the better fullback, not yet though. Jake the Rake isn't the worst idea but I would still like some fleet-of-foot menace at dummy half and that's only Fainu in our squad - maybe Lawton a bit if he gets fitter. What to do with Jake I still don't quite know
 
Sea Eagle Lach
Staff member
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
I love Jake, and I think hes a very good lock. But if he wants to go from a very good lock to the premier lock in the game he needs to fix his diet and his fitness. I think that he carries a gut around, slowing him down significantly and labours badly towards the back end of games. Probably the least fit of all other locks in the top teams in the competition (Yeo, Murray, Finucane, Radley etc). If he fixes his fitness he will become quicker on his feet, more explosive in defence and when hitting up and maintain his quality throughout.
I would be very surprised if Jake isn't one of the fittest in our squad. True he doesn't have the svelte physique of a cam Murray but I've assumed the extra weight and 'padding' is a result of deliberate tailoring by our strength & condition people to help him absorb the big impacts - which he is usually dishing out and/or receiving.

We've had a few in the Don Singe era who look like they could be skinnier but, with one or two exceptions (Big George?) I doubt it's an accident. Glenn Stewart is one example, I think they went to some lengths to try to increase his weight and it took a couple of years before he was deemed robust enough to be effective for his role in NRL. Also Jamie Buhrer?
 
Jake is perplexing. Manly through-and-through, a team leader, defensive workhorse... but lacks the impact forward packs need in the modern game. I wonder if the same would be true of Glenn Stewart now? But Glenn played in sides with the relentless Anthony Watmough and in our premiership sides some no-frills hit-it-up and tackle second rower. Our second row has other attributes but neither Schuster or Ola are best used in those roles. As an aside to complete the brothers' comparison, I thought and still think Tom doesn't have the instincts or speed of brain and hands that Brett had, which made him do freakish things, but Tom has grown into his power and size to match his speed probably making him eventually the better fullback, not yet though. Jake the Rake isn't the worst idea but I would still like some fleet-of-foot menace at dummy half and that's only Fainu in our squad - maybe Lawton a bit if he gets fitter. What to do with Jake I still don't quite know
Jake will be used exactly the same way as he has been this season. Once walker comes on he will goto prop and still ball play in the middle. Walker was starting to kill it in the 13 so i dont see that changing unless vlandysball goes away and we go back to actual footy
 
The poster formerly known as Simmo66.
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
Not sure I have any the answers especially given Des failed this year and he is far far more knowledgeable than any of us. But sorry I will call out crazy talk when I read suggestions that are well... crazy. Jake being a hooker is crazy... Schuster a Centre - more craziness... Parker a backrower - more tom foolery etc etc. Seriously despite the doomsdayers on here I honestly don't think there is much to change. I think the improvement comes from within in the main. Haumole to be more dominant and come from the long run, Paseka to grow some more into a quality week in week out talent not just every now and again, Harper to overcome whatever injury he had in the last bit of the year, some heavy work on the defensive structures on that right side defence given DCE seems to cause some issues by racing up out of the line, Schuster to be bought in a bit closer at times to play the football ala Glenn Stewart and to be more involved like he was up till half way through the year when it seemed the game plan changed and his ball playing role changed and virtually stopped, Walker to maybe be considered to go back out to the Centres for more strike... depending on if his lateral defence is ok being out wide again and if we can replace him with another great super sub to play his role, Bullemore to add some pace and quick play the balls, maybe Davey brings that hard nosed footballers footballer to the pack if his knee is right and we haven't missed his boat with him being 30 - we need another tradesman in the pack to support Jake even if they come on from the bench so if not Davey - maybe someone else from another club, we add a classy young centre to the squad from outside the club, injuries to be kind to us - they were pretty damn good to us this year and we need that again next year. But yes... sorry - if crap is well crap then I will say it how it is - and that it is crap. Now with Jake being suddenly turned into a hooker - people seem to think you can just swap positions really easily. In the main it doesn't happen and very few players can just swap positions significantly like that and be successful. History tells us all that. Anyway - despite the we got bundled out in spectacular fashion comment I look at the game very differently. If the Garrick try is a try - Turbo doesn't drop it, the Keppie pass to DCE sticks, DCE grubbers for SAAB instead of falling into touch and the ball bounces a bit differently on those two tries and Parker is in the Centres and Keppie not off injured I strongly suggest the game is a very very different outcome and we wouldn't be having this discussion. And most of those things were like a illimeter either way - a different outcome. Our ability to be more resilient through adversity also needs to change - that in the main is all mental plus the need for that other tradesman forward I mentioned. But we need to keep our attack at all costs - just be slightly more disciplined. Contrary to popular belief we aint too far away! Normally I don't bother responding to people goading me to respond. But I had two minutes to spare in my busy life.
It depends on your definition of crazy talk I guess. Projecting a different result to a game based on a series of "what ifs" and hypotheticals, definitely meets the definition though. The game happened as it did and that's all there is to it. Its fantasyland stuff i.e crazy talk to come up with a different outcome to the game based on things that didn't actually happen. Sorry dude but I am definitely calling out that section of your post as crazy talk. I agree with "most" everything else from "I honestly don't think there is much to change", the hypothetical stuff is utter crap.
Sarcastic GIF
 
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Reserve Grader
Jake will be used exactly the same way as he has been this season. Once walker comes on he will goto prop and still ball play in the middle. Walker was starting to kill it in the 13 so i dont see that changing unless vlandysball goes away and we go back to actual footy
That probably is what will happen but as many have noted that did not go very well against the real heavyweights. In my view if Walker stays he should play the position that almost inexplicably he hasn't since being picked as the Dally M player in that role - centre. The other centre role is between Parker and Harper or that quick kid coming up (Toula?)
 
That probably is what will happen but as many have noted that did not go very well against the real heavyweights. In my view if Walker stays he should play the position that almost inexplicably he hasn't since being picked as the Dally M player in that role - centre. The other centre role is between Parker and Harper or that quick kid coming up (Toula?)
I always thought walker was our best center but has been shifted around the entire team. Fullback playing as a half a 5/8th now a forward and had a few stints at center when in game injures struck. I doubt he will go back there BUT des did have him training outside of Foran in the off season. So who knows what the mad scientist is conjuring up in his underground laboratory 😛
 
It depends on your definition of crazy talk I guess. Projecting a different result to a game based on a series of "what ifs" and hypotheticals, definitely meets the definition though. The game happened as it did and that's all there is to it. Its fantasyland stuff i.e crazy talk to come up with a different outcome to the game based on things that didn't actually happen. Sorry dude but I am definitely calling out that section of your post as crazy talk. I agree with "most" everything else from "I honestly don't think there is much to change", the hypothetical stuff is utter crap.
Sarcastic GIF
Man I dont really care what you call out lol lol lol. The day I am concerned about what you or someone said is the day I have dementia.
 
The poster formerly known as Simmo66.
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
Man I dont really care what you call out lol lol lol. The day I am concerned about what you or someone said is the day I have dementia.
Just throwing the words of your previous post back at you. But perhaps you had already forgotten what you wrote in that ........ ;)
"But yes... sorry - if crap is well crap then I will say it how it is - and that it is crap." Brisbane Tragic
 
Just throwing the words of your previous post back at you. But perhaps you had already forgotten what you wrote in that ........ ;)
"But yes... sorry - if crap is well crap then I will say it how it is - and that it is crap." Brisbane Tragic
You aint getting it mate - talk to the hand... your opinion to me is as valuable as a pebble in a gold mine.
 
Bencher
If our props do their job, Jake can do his.

He's a beast defensively, which while often mentioned is still very under-appreciated IMO.

Remember how porous we were through the middle in our second game vs Canberra this season? Jake was rested that game & it quickly became very noticeable.

He's not the tallest of locks but he's a very solid fella - I see him every now & then at my local Woollies & his back & shoulders are huge - not your classic V-shape but just big, lumpy & solid.

He's an absolute workhorse & I don't think he does much wrong considering the amount of work he gets through.
 
The poster formerly known as Simmo66.
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
You aint getting it mate - talk to the hand... your opinion to me is as valuable as a pebble in a gold mine.
Clearly mate you've been educated beyond your intellect. You do you. Google Porphyry deposit. Hope this helps.
 
Reserve Grader
Not sure I have any the answers especially given Des failed this year and he is far far more knowledgeable than any of us. But sorry I will call out crazy talk when I read suggestions that are well... crazy. Jake being a hooker is crazy... Schuster a Centre - more craziness... Parker a backrower - more tom foolery etc etc. Seriously despite the doomsdayers on here I honestly don't think there is much to change. I think the improvement comes from within in the main. Haumole to be more dominant and come from the long run, Paseka to grow some more into a quality week in week out talent not just every now and again, Harper to overcome whatever injury he had in the last bit of the year, some heavy work on the defensive structures on that right side defence given DCE seems to cause some issues by racing up out of the line, Schuster to be bought in a bit closer at times to play the football ala Glenn Stewart and to be more involved like he was up till half way through the year when it seemed the game plan changed and his ball playing role changed and virtually stopped, Walker to maybe be considered to go back out to the Centres for more strike... depending on if his lateral defence is ok being out wide again and if we can replace him with another great super sub to play his role, Bullemore to add some pace and quick play the balls, maybe Davey brings that hard nosed footballers footballer to the pack if his knee is right and we haven't missed his boat with him being 30 - we need another tradesman in the pack to support Jake even if they come on from the bench so if not Davey - maybe someone else from another club, we add a classy young centre to the squad from outside the club, injuries to be kind to us - they were pretty damn good to us this year and we need that again next year. But yes... sorry - if crap is well crap then I will say it how it is - and that it is crap. Now with Jake being suddenly turned into a hooker - people seem to think you can just swap positions really easily. In the main it doesn't happen and very few players can just swap positions significantly like that and be successful. History tells us all that. Anyway - despite the we got bundled out in spectacular fashion comment I look at the game very differently. If the Garrick try is a try - Turbo doesn't drop it, the Keppie pass to DCE sticks, DCE grubbers for SAAB instead of falling into touch and the ball bounces a bit differently on those two tries and Parker is in the Centres and Keppie not off injured I strongly suggest the game is a very very different outcome and we wouldn't be having this discussion. And most of those things were like a millimeter either way - a different outcome. Our ability to be more resilient through adversity also needs to change - that in the main is all mental plus the need for that other tradesman forward I mentioned. But we need to keep our attack at all costs - just be slightly more disciplined. Contrary to popular belief we aint too far away! Normally I don't bother responding to people goading me to respond. But I had two minutes to spare in my busy life.

I appreciate the response. Reckon it took more than 2 minutes but well said. I agree with you that if all of those other possibilities had happened we may have won both games. Fact is they did'nt and we got smashed. The question is if we take the same games same time next year and same players, do we get a different result? My feeling is we get the same results unfortunately. Key to that is that we appear to operate with one less "true" middle forward than the opposition and when we interchange with Walker, we appear to operate with TWO less middle forwards. Just my view and hope I am wrong for next year. If the case, we will continue to get dominated when we have the ball.
 
I appreciate the response. Reckon it took more than 2 minutes but well said. I agree with you that if all of those other possibilities had happened we may have won both games. Fact is they did'nt and we got smashed. The question is if we take the same games same time next year and same players, do we get a different result? My feeling is we get the same results unfortunately. Key to that is that we appear to operate with one less "true" middle forward than the opposition and when we interchange with Walker, we appear to operate with TWO less middle forwards. Just my view and hope I am wrong for next year. If the case, we will continue to get dominated when we have the ball.
Agreed our resilience under pressure is not great. We lose confidence we are a real confidence team. That is a culture thing and something that wont be fixed over night. Another die in the trenches type like Jake... maybe Davey is a key though to help change attitudes. If Dale Finucane came here if we had salary cap space we are close to guaranteed to play in a GF if injuries are relatively kind. We really are close and we need that kind of player to pop up from somewhere. Maybe it is Sione Fainu or Tuitavake - maybe they are all heart type players - we can only hope. We also need better defence on the right and a strike centre - again that is Walker... but..... People can ignore the fact that those couple of things change in the semi and I am certain we win. They didn't and we got beat decently but again that is how close we are - a few bounces of the ball - a pass sticks, Suli doesn't run a terrible line and gets out of the way, Turbo hangs on..... all really really .1% things which cost us. That is point 1 not one percent - I truly believe we are close. Anyway - our improvement will come from within there is no doubt our young players will improve next year - Harper, Schu, Haumole, Keppie, Paseka, Saab. That is almost half the side that can probably improve by maybe 5% each... and that in a team contending is massive. We need to be patient and trust in Des. I am absolutely certain that there will be changes to our roster before kick off next year and we will pick up a couple of surprise new players. Des just wont sit pat... I am certain of that.
 
Jake needs a rest!
We won every game that Jake had a break in this year 8/8 times
Jake played 80mins in each of our losses this year. 9 losses
I did some research. Here is a list of locks and the games that they played over 70mins this season
Lock Number of games where they played more than 70min
Jake 20
Dale Finucane 3
Cameron Murry 5
Isaah Yeo 10
Nathan Brown 3
Tino Fa'asuamaleaui 1
Jake is my favorite player, but he gets through a mountain of work and then gives away holding the man down penalties when fatigued. It would be nice to balance our pack with another worker(Ethan Bullemore)or give the props e.g. Paseka a few of his mins
 
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KT 623
Premium Member
Tipping Comp 2021
I’d love Jake to take up Scott Adams role as Mr.Inbetween. In the show on Fox, they have Matt Nable and Ian Roberts making various appearances. It is a long stretch to see Jake running around double tapping villains. But you never know, it could be the quiet sibling role he was meant to play.
 

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