Huge Young Pack - Can they Dominate?

[maxta]

These Youngsters could well be Manly's cornerstone for the next 7-8 years....
AFB, Meehan, Lane, Perrett are genuine Giants and the games biggest heart and potential Superstar forward sits with young Jake to lead them....
Really hoping they all step up, Jake is a NO brainer & WILL get it done...AFB in his first season proved he has the goods, Perrett has the tools but plenty to prove & improve, Meehan in the the same box, but could well be the biggest X factor player on Manly's books & Lane - showed at the Dogs he is a great edge runner, who will terrorise opposition....especially in that Red Zone where we have trouble posting points.
Suddenly there appears some depth - big bodies who could well set up DCE, Green to exploit the attacking skills of Turbo, Walker & Uate out wide...add Tafua - I think he has more to give.
YES its a young group here but add Kapow's energy & Myles.....well ....something (experience?) & we have potential that can hopefully rise in 2017 & years to come....
I will add, Hastings at 21 could also prove a great Hooker with massive tenacity - missing around that ruck from dummy half for a while.

 

[robbiea]

I think they can dominate ,and Lussick may be the forward to lead them...

 

[maxta]

I think they can dominate ,and Lussick may be the forward to lead them...

Good call....Lussick was the standout Tough nut in 2016 - often first out the line for a shot....

 

[The Who]

A huge pack hasn't worked for the Dogs. Look at some of our best recent forwards - Glen Stewart, Dropnough and Beaver... None of them giants but all of them excellent footballers with great skill and heart.
It takes more than size to be a success.

 

[tookey]

As the saying goes it isn't the size of the dog in the fight it it the size of the fight in the dog.

T-rex is a classic example of someone who should dominate NRL but he doesn't have the heart to do so

 

[midsteyne]

theres big and then there is huge,i reckon big is better than huge,also young and hard with everything to prove.
B.Fulton starting to weave his old magic

 

[maxta]

A huge pack hasn't worked for the Dogs. Look at some of our best recent forwards - Glen Stewart, Dropnough and Beaver... None of them giants but all of them excellent footballers with great skill and heart.
It takes more than size to be a success.

Agreed - but the fact is that very Dog pack beat us up recently with exactly that - SIZE....as did many others in 2016 where we were basically bullied & bent over......I think with the Buhrer/Green/Leary attempt to win with speed was a Fail & Starlo/Burgess were soft.....Dogs had Zero variation to the Size element, whereas we have Kapow & Lane who will bend the line....& Explosive young Pups like AFB & Meehan unlike the OLD Dogs pack....add both Hastings & Api who add far more spark than Licha from dummy half, who never lived up to the hype and our mix and variation adds far more options than the Dogs Props playing like halves out the back all day.

 

[sheridanstand78]

It's a pack with potential. My concern is our defence. Last 2 years we have been consistently smashed around the ruck and we have lost quality defenders in Ballin and Buhrer. This must improve if we are to challenge for the 8.

 

[Clay]

Will find out in round 1

 

[Go manly]

It will be up to Trent now !!
No one else

The cattle are there
Outdated footy field, poor draw inner club fighting , past decisions all mean jack

It is his job to create the environment , including game plan where everyone knows not only what their own role is to succeed but know what their team mates role is in the team

If, and it doesn't happen often, but if our players can identify and are willing to help out when the next man is struggling , congratulate and want other team members to succeed , and appreciate the opportunity to play for a proud and great club in a game that they enjoy then we can dominate and intimidate like some of our previous champion packs

Lots will disagree and I am ok with that but
I think the plodder will play a huge role in preparing the young guns on when to step it up and when to settle it down
...and with all young strong people trying to prove themselves there is a tendency to try to go at it alone every now and then and red line

The sharks last year, cowboys,stinking rotten rabbits all had some young strong enthusiastic pigs but also had a some one who could settle and calm things down

I know we have had super star backs for years but can't get past that we have just been so fortunate to have had dynamic energetic hard rugby league forwards that have always had a unofficial experienced leader that would just be there

The last couple of years these leaders have been in the backs

This WILL be jake very soon and he will be there for us and nsw and oz for a long time but I think will just feed and benefit off plodders experience during the next year

And I also think this has been made clear to plodder and our players by the Trent &. Bozos of the world

Long post but last day of holiday before having to put a pair of shoes and short on after 15 days barefoot

 

[Kevinward777]

As the saying goes it isn't the size of the dog in the fight it it the size of the fight in the dog.

T-rex is a classic example of someone who should dominate NRL but he doesn't have the heart to do so

I'm down in a valley at the moment, great fishing but no reception. Had to duck up to the shops for some supplies and couldn't help myself. Needed some positivity and thought I'd seek out @tookey. Your posts are always so positive and uplifting.

 

[court83]

having a big pack should be helpful if they all stand up.... up to the play makers and backs to capitalise...
thats where the dogs went wrong, big up front and offer nothing else after that, compare them to the raiders, another team with a huge pack, but excellent play makers and backs that took advantage and absolutely carved up the competition...
i do think it will take a year or 2 for our young guys to perform as well as we'de like them too tho

 

[nightster]

A huge pack hasn't worked for the Dogs. Look at some of our best recent forwards - Glen Stewart, Dropnough and Beaver... None of them giants but all of them excellent footballers with great skill and heart.
It takes more than size to be a success.

Buhrer

 

[nightster]

Sironen in the centres?

 

[Disco]

Agreed - but the fact is that very Dog pack beat us up recently with exactly that - SIZE....as did many others in 2016 where we were basically bullied & bent over......I think with the Buhrer/Green/Leary attempt to win with speed was a Fail & Starlo/Burgess were soft.....Dogs had Zero variation to the Size element, whereas we have Kapow & Lane who will bend the line....& Explosive young Pups like AFB & Meehan unlike the OLD Dogs pack....add both Hastings & Api who add far more spark than Licha from dummy half, who never lived up to the hype and our mix and variation adds far more options than the Dogs Props playing like halves out the back all day.

We were 8th in average metres made, don't get me wrong, we weren't dominant but we weren't often bullied and bent over (that was 2015). For mine our forwards were not the problem in in 16 it was out backs and halves

In fact if you break it down further to avg metres made per run, you get us coming out at 9.11m per run whilst the Cowboys were 8.65m and the much loved Bulldogs 9m

You also highlight Buhrer as a *speed player* yet he averaged 110m per game which was 4th of all our forwards behind Marty (142.7), Darcy (125.3) and Jake (116.7) and ahead of talent like Frizell, Shannon Boyd Campbell Gillard, Josh Jackson, Proctor, Lewis, Douglas, Packer, Wicks, Paasi, Mclean, Geurra, Shillington, Hannett, Mannah, Lilyman

I know I am being a bit pedantic but two things I think get overstated are that our forwards were poor last year and size in the forwards is the be all and end all

 

[Disco]

So to further harp on, if we break the players down to average metres per run in 2016

Buhrer - 10.25m
JWH - 9.96m
S Boyd - 9.75m
Kasiano - 9.22m
S Burgess - 8.82m

Now stats can blur the lines but size is not the be all and end all

 

[Woodsie]

So to further harp on, if we break the players down to average metres per run in 2016

Buhrer - 10.25m
JWH - 9.96m
S Boyd - 9.75m
Kasiano - 9.22m
S Burgess - 8.82m

Now stats can blur the lines but size is not the be all and end all

Agree totally Disco, but it is not just dealing with one big run from one big man that tells. One of the values of size overlooked, is the accumulated effect of tackling big men constantly for 80mins, often requiring an extra man coming into assist, all of which wears down opponents.

The only regular forwards we have lost from last year are Buhrer, Vave and Starling.

We have replaced them with Lawrence, Lane, Perrett, Sironen, Meehan and Winterstein with Bainbridge and all the Blacktown signings in the wings.

All up I would say that the new size has not diminished any mobility and with the exception of Buhrer an upgrade of the 2016 pack

 

[Hgbcds]

We were 8th in average metres made, don't get me wrong, we weren't dominant but we weren't often bullied and bent over (that was 2015). For mine our forwards were not the problem in in 16 it was out backs and halves

In fact if you break it down further to avg metres made per run, you get us coming out at 9.11m per run whilst the Cowboys were 8.65m and the much loved Bulldogs 9m

You also highlight Buhrer as a *speed player* yet he averaged 110m per game which was 4th of all our forwards behind Marty (142.7), Darcy (125.3) and Jake (116.7) and ahead of talent like Frizell, Shannon Boyd Campbell Gillard, Josh Jackson, Proctor, Lewis, Douglas, Packer, Wicks, Paasi, Mclean, Geurra, Shillington, Hannett, Mannah, Lilyman

I know I am being a bit pedantic but two things I think get overstated are that our forwards were poor last year and size in the forwards is the be all and end all

buhrer didn't play to many games where as the ones you compete him to played most.dont think that's a good stat.but agree size isn't everything. And buhrer is a tackling machine, skillfull, and breaks the line a couple of times a game. Dodgy knees is why they have let him go has to be.

 

[Loobs]

It's a pack with potential. My concern is our defence. Last 2 years we have been consistently smashed around the ruck and we have lost quality defenders in Ballin and Buhrer. This must improve if we are to challenge for the 8.

We had a bunch of fat ****s and old guys in there. Mason took 15 minutes to get off the ground. Vave couldn't move sideways.

 

[maxta]

We were 8th in average metres made, don't get me wrong, we weren't dominant but we weren't often bullied and bent over (that was 2015). For mine our forwards were not the problem in in 16 it was out backs and halves

In fact if you break it down further to avg metres made per run, you get us coming out at 9.11m per run whilst the Cowboys were 8.65m and the much loved Bulldogs 9m

You also highlight Buhrer as a *speed player* yet he averaged 110m per game which was 4th of all our forwards behind Marty (142.7), Darcy (125.3) and Jake (116.7) and ahead of talent like Frizell, Shannon Boyd Campbell Gillard, Josh Jackson, Proctor, Lewis, Douglas, Packer, Wicks, Paasi, Mclean, Geurra, Shillington, Hannett, Mannah, Lilyman

I know I am being a bit pedantic but two things I think get overstated are that our forwards were poor last year and size in the forwards is the be all and end all

Going on stats is fair enough, but Stats are often misleading.
In actual fact we had the 4th best ball control rate in the NRL which is a stat over 26 rounds that helped very little.
Stats don't give a feel for the real game....just a few reasons imo -
Say Thurston kicks 21 from 25 from the sideline at 84% and Api kicks 25 from in front for 100% - Api is not the better kicker....as example also, I think Buhrers running stats were built up massive with the St George and Newcastle games, as he missed many of the Physical games - again leading to a false average gain....I personally liked Buhrer but seen him often ragdolled and steamrolled against the Bigger, Physical packs.
Agree the spine last year was all over shop but I retain though the ball control was high, rarely bent the line and won the play ball area and apart from some Lussick/Jake/Kapow moments....lost the physical battles that the stats don't show but the body language does.
Sorry to add Disco - Buhrer IS a speed/Agile backrower - not your Robust Physical type - the metres were not barnstorming line benders, more breaks on the edge or behind the ruck with quick feet....against the lower teams.