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[Resurrected] DCE... Myth or legend?

Bearfax

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Well DCE has missed the second most amount of tackles in the team this season, so Joey is on the money. His partner in crime on that right edge, Siro, has missed the third most.

But how many tackles does he make. Such stats should be based on percentage not number. I havent seen how many tackles DCE is making this year, but in the past I have noticed he out tackles almost every other first grade half. He used to do twice the number of Cronk.
 

Simonmyers11

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Well DCE has missed the second most amount of tackles in the team this season, so Joey is on the money. His partner in crime on that right edge, Siro, has missed the third most.
Doesn't tell the story, the misses I see DCE make are the second one in, in cover, might grab and fall off and comes again and covers the defender up - not a glaring one on one miss the attacker goes straight thru.

On our own goal line he has come up with some absolute rippers one on one - like holding up Kikau over the line by himself, then running down their winger and saving another try. He does a **** load of ball and all tackles against opposition back rowers.

The missed tackles i cannot stand are the ones when a player just completely miss reads the play and lets an attacker stroll past him, or when a player sprints up and grabs thin air that leads to a try - they are cardinal!
 

Chip and Chase

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But how many tackles does he make. Such stats should be based on percentage not number. I havent seen how many tackles DCE is making this year, but in the past I have noticed he out tackles almost every other first grade half. He used to do twice the number of Cronk.
He has 197 tackles @ 85% tackle efficiency. Compared to most other right side halves in the comp. He's not appreciably more efficient nor has a higher workload than most of these guys in top 8. In fact he seems to be getting a lot less traffic than a few of them

Cleary 183 @ 82%
Hughes 202 @ 85%
Moses 159 @ 81% (10 games)
Flanagan 294 @ 86%
Williams 266 @ 89%
Pearce 296 @ 82%
Reynolds 194 @ 86%
Johnson 193 @ 83%
 

Bearfax

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He has 197 tackles @ 85% tackle efficiency. Compared to most other right side halves in the comp. He's not appreciably more efficient nor has a higher workload than most of these guys in top 8. In fact he seems to be getting a lot less traffic than a few of them

Cleary 183 @ 82%
Hughes 202 @ 85%
Moses 159 @ 81% (10 games)
Flanagan 294 @ 86%
Williams 266 @ 89%
Pearce 296 @ 82%
Reynolds 194 @ 86%
Johnson 193 @ 83%

Thanks for the info, if its accurate. The point I did make was 'in the past' and was comparing with Cronk. I dont have access to the tackles now but I recall DCE being well near the top of defensive half backs. Seems though that even if he is back in the pack, he's doing as good a job percentage wise as all the rest. So why bag him for poor defence. I read four with poorer averages, one equal, and two only a percent above. Only one has a significantly higher percentage
 

BOZO

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Lets put things in perspective and compare legends with legends shall we ....
Jonathan Thurston missed a few tackles as well and like DCE he is still a Legend
The 007 DCE legend Lives on .....
cherry-evansd-try-180711-sd-05.jpg
 

Chip and Chase

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Thanks for the info, if its accurate. The point I did make was 'in the past' and was comparing with Cronk. I dont have access to the tackles now but I recall DCE being well near the top of defensive half backs. Seems though that even if he is back in the pack, he's doing as good a job percentage wise as all the rest. So why bag him for poor defence. I read four with poorer averages, one equal, and two only a percent above. Only one has a significantly higher percentage
It's as accurate as the Fox Sports NRL stats site allows it to be. Although I just checked on the NRL site and it says he has made 209 tackles at 87% - so a bit of a discrepancy. I wasn't bagging him for poor defence, I was just pointing out that Joey's comment has some basis in truth given he has missed the second most tackles in the team. His defence is no worse than any other half I agree, but the stats list was just trying to point out that comparing him to Cooper Cronk isn't representative of the tackling workload of most normal halfbacks in the NRL. I've always thought his defence was pretty good as a rule, especially his one on one efforts
 

SeaEagleRock8

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I'm surprised Johns would have a go at him for his defence, as opposed to for his game management.
DCE is such a skilled player at times its easy to take for granted the good plays he does.
But someone has to take responsibility for the on-field team structure and demeanour and a few times that has been lacking and we've looked downright inept.
Our home game vs Knights (my only Brookie game this year!) was an example, we looked stronger then them but incapable of any cohesive attacking play.
 

Bearfax

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It's as accurate as the Fox Sports NRL stats site allows it to be. Although I just checked on the NRL site and it says he has made 209 tackles at 87% - so a bit of a discrepancy. I wasn't bagging him for poor defence, I was just pointing out that Joey's comment has some basis in truth given he has missed the second most tackles in the team. His defence is no worse than any other half I agree, but the stats list was just trying to point out that comparing him to Cooper Cronk isn't representative of the tackling workload of most normal halfbacks in the NRL. I've always thought his defence was pretty good as a rule, especially his one on one efforts

Chippie I accept the stats given are more or less close enough, though the second stat you're giving suggests he's ahead of most. But I recall , I think it was two years ago, going through the tackle counts they used to supply of respective half backs, not just Cronk, and DCE was by far the highest tackler of the halves at that time, averaging something like 23 a game. Of course what I was reading may have been inaccurate as maybe the stats shown by the NRL because often its unclear who should get the tackle and I would suggest they are often not terribly accurate in counts. I have seen some stats that are seriously divergent from stats from other sources, so who do we believe. I can seriously only speak anecdotally, which is of course partial, but it seems to me he does a lot of the defensive work for the team. I dont recall Andrew Johns being a particularly reliable defender as it was always his skill in attack people spoke of
 

Scorpio

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He has 197 tackles @ 85% tackle efficiency. Compared to most other right side halves in the comp. He's not appreciably more efficient nor has a higher workload than most of these guys in top 8. In fact he seems to be getting a lot less traffic than a few of them

Cleary 183 @ 82%
Hughes 202 @ 85%
Moses 159 @ 81% (10 games)
Flanagan 294 @ 86%
Williams 266 @ 89%
Pearce 296 @ 82%
Reynolds 194 @ 86%
Johnson 193 @ 83%
That probably doesn't take into account a third man flop which is counted as a tackle... I would bet that DCE has a lot less of those than most others on this list.
 

40 years an eagle

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That probably doesn't take into account a third man flop which is counted as a tackle... I would bet that DCE has a lot less of those than most others on this list.
Only 1 player is credited with each tackle buddy, not 2, 3, 4 or 5.
 

Simonmyers11

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This game shows you how important just running hard and fast is.

Look at Melbourne, they don't even have their two main ball players in Smith and Munster, yet jacks and Hughes look like world beaters because Melbournes forwards are just steam rolling roosters. Brushing off tackles, quick play the balls, off loads.

Keary cannot get into the game.

I wonder how DCE would go in the Melbourne side with their well drilled side and great outside backs and forwards.
 

susan

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Only 1 player is credited with each tackle buddy, not 2, 3, 4 or 5.
That’s actually not the case. The number of team tackles is totally different to the combined individual tackles at the end of a game.
The stats men have to make a subjective opinion as to whether a player contributed to the tackle. In most cases two players and on rare occasions three players are credited with the same tackle.In the modern game where gang tackles are the norm.

This is the reason you get different individual tackle counts on different sites while the total team tackles are always the same. Each statistician has to make that subjective judgement for every tackle as to who contributed.when doing individual counts.
 
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Scorpio

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Only 1 player is credited with each tackle buddy, not 2, 3, 4 or 5.
So if 1 player makes initial contact (say the halfback) and 2 players join in to complete the job... who gets credited with the tackle? That's what those numbers don't really say.

Regardless, having seen DCE take down second rowers and props 1-on-1 this season, I have trouble believing there are better defensive halves in the competition.
 

40 years an eagle

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That’s actually not the case. The number of team tackles is totally different to the combined individual tackles at the end of a game.
The stats men have to make a subjective opinion as to whether a player contributed to the tackle. In most cases two players and on rare occasions three players are credited with the same tackle.In the modern game where gang tackles are the norm.

This is the reason you get different individual tackle counts on different sites while the total team tackles are always the same. Each statistician has to make that subjective judgement for every tackle as to who contributed.when doing individual counts.
Thanks for that, I stand corrected. Is a 3rd man flopper EVER credited with a tackle.
 

40 years an eagle

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So if 1 player makes initial contact (say the halfback) and 2 players join in to complete the job... who gets credited with the tackle? That's what those numbers don't really say.

Regardless, having seen DCE take down second rowers and props 1-on-1 this season, I have trouble believing there are better defensive halves in the competition.
I thought the dominant tackler is credited with the tackle, that's the way it used to be. I have never checked team tackle numbers to published individual numbers but surely 3rd man flops don't count.
 

susan

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I thought the dominant tackler is credited with the tackle, that's the way it used to be. I have never checked team tackle numbers to published individual numbers but surely 3rd man flops don't count.
No they don’t count. Should be a penalty if refereed properly.The stats guys count individuals who make a significant contribution to a tsckle. Flops should never be counted.

It’s subjective hence the differing tsckle counts on different sites. The team tackles have to be the same on all the sites if done properly as it’s simply a matter of counting tackles in the sets of each team. Eg a perfect game with 30 complete sets and no kicking is 180 tackles.
Individual tackles would be many more.


I’ve been involved in footy for a long time and that’s how it’s been done for as long as I can remember.
 
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susan

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This game shows you how important just running hard and fast is.

Look at Melbourne, they don't even have their two main ball players in Smith and Munster, yet jacks and Hughes look like world beaters because Melbournes forwards are just steam rolling roosters. Brushing off tackles, quick play the balls, off loads.

Keary cannot get into the game.

I wonder how DCE would go in the Melbourne side with their well drilled side and great outside backs and forwards.
The speed and fluency of their backline ball movement is unbelieveable. Every attacking kick also looks like a prospective try. We are just light years away from them in this new game even with Tommy. Nine tries for our three quarters all year.
Speed and kicks to wingers is in a different league. We have a lot of adapting to do.
 
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