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[Resurrected] DCE... Myth or legend?

hozza

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Mar 11, 2015
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1,285
Not DCE's fault. I saw this same criticism of Cliff Lyons, even my the media, when the Sea Eagles had an inept back line. If you dont have the players around you, supporting you, its easy to look inept. DCE is the only player presently in the back line I would definitely keep. Given a decent 5/8 and backline, he would be a champion again.
The great cliff Lyons and DCE should never ever ever be spoken about in the same sentence.

Even after 16 winny reds in 16 minutes Clifford would run rings around Dce.

And problem is and will continue to be that he takes far far far to much of our cap to buy anyone of note to help us..
 

mickqld

Sea Eagle forever
Joined
Sep 13, 2004
Messages
10,123
1st tackle of the game. DCE takes the ball from kickoff and steps back toward the sideline on a wet surface. Into touch, pressure straight away , set restarts, set restarts, try Warriors and game momentum lost right there. This is the captain, the most highly paid player in the game. I'm sorry but he is an over priced myth that will continue to lead us to mediocrity.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
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Aug 6, 2012
Messages
6,215
The great cliff Lyons and DCE should never ever ever be spoken about in the same sentence.

Even after 16 winny reds in 16 minutes Clifford would run rings around Dce.

And problem is and will continue to be that he takes far far far to much of our cap to buy anyone of note to help us..

Disagree totally, sorry. DCE is an outstanding half, who is struggling with an inept back line. I do remember Lyons being castigated at one stage, even by the media, because he was struggling with a back line that had no oomph in the early 1990s. Perhaps you don't recall but I remember it well and was angered by it knowing it wasn't Lyons' fault, but didn't stop the media and fans attacking him. There were even calls for his head.

Like any half, they need players outside them or even forwards that take advantage of their skills. In a good side as shown in 2011, he was a champion player. Trouble is since 2015 he has had a very average back line to set up, especially as Stewart, Matai and Lyon had had their day. Only Tom T added support and DCE had a great combination with Tom when Tom was on the field. Easy to forget those days.
 

hozza

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Mar 11, 2015
Messages
1,285
Disagree totally, sorry. DCE is an outstanding half, who is struggling with an inept back line. I do remember Lyons being castigated at one stage, even by the media, because he was struggling with a back line that had no oomph in the early 1990s. Perhaps you don't recall but I remember it well and was angered by it knowing it wasn't Lyons' fault, but didn't stop the media and fans attacking him. There were even calls for his head.

Like any half, they need players outside them or even forwards that take advantage of their skills. In a good side as shown in 2011, he is a champion player. Trouble is since 2015 he has had a very average back line to set up, especially as Stewart, Matai and Lyon had had their day. Only Tom T added support and DCE had a great combination with Tom when Tom was on the field. Easy to forget those days.
Sorry completely disagree.
Sure Cliff had a lean run but not even close to Dce. And once Cliffy was on we had 3 or 4 yrs of domination. And big big big difference was Cliff did not take all our money. Dce does ( not necessarily his fault).

And in 2011 like you yourself have said he did well... why? Because he was a cog in a champion side- Lyon, Matai, Stewart bros ect. They all took unders to become a champion side.

And since it’s became ‘his’ side....fuking nada, zero, nothing, zilch. I’d literally take any other half to free us up from his ridiculous contract. In 2015 I said we wouldn’t win another premiership with him as half, as documented on here. Nothing has changed..
 

Cioran

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Jun 2, 2018
Messages
886
I don’t expect Cherry to win games single handedly. What I want from a half back on his coin is that he scheme and plan and make the team and the other players on the field (ours not theirs) appreciably better. Cherry just doesn’t do that. He runs around playing his own game as best he can while around him the team flounders.

A good half would look at Olakau’atu and think. “That blokes big and fast, how about I position myself to get the ball where I can run that big bloke at their small defenders”. It’s the kind of discussion Cherry never seems to have with himself. Instead he runs upright along the sideline in the pouring rain and gets bundled over the sideline when someone with the brains of a goldfish would have gone to ground.
 

Chip and Chase

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I guess the planets didn't align tonight either ?? Wasn't going to be a great night based on that first touch of the game. Tried hard, made some good tackles, and spoke well. Usual story. Hopefully the mojo will return, but it's getting close to being too late for 2020 now. 3 more years.
 

hozza

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Joined
Mar 11, 2015
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1,285
I guess the planets didn't align tonight either ?? Wasn't going to be a great night based on that first touch of the game. Tried hard, made some good tackles, and spoke well. Usual story. Hopefully the mojo will return, but it's getting close to being too late for 2020 now. 3 more years.
3 more years..
 

The Who

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Jun 29, 2010
Messages
12,288
Our kicking game is woeful, arguably the worst in the comp. Certainly our stats of one try from kicks in 13 matches bears this out.
Cust wasn't any better tonight.
Yet, there is a kid awaiting his chance who is a wizard with kicks, offloads and deft passes. Christ, his name is The Shoe! He is our only hope of kick starting our season. Play him at 5/8. Put Cust on the reserves bench instead of Froggy.
What have we got to lose?
 

sean john

Manly Til I Die
Joined
May 25, 2015
Messages
3,160
Our kicking game is woeful, arguably the worst in the comp. Certainly our stats of one try from kicks in 13 matches bears this out.
Cust wasn't any better tonight.
Yet, there is a kid awaiting his chance who is a wizard with kicks, offloads and deft passes. Christ, his name is The Shoe! He is our only hope of kick starting our season. Play him at 5/8. Put Cust on the reserves bench instead of Froggy.
What have we got to lose?
I can never understand why DCE grubbers the ball across field 20 out from the line????? It's a nothing play. Applies no pressure.Put it up in the corner.. we could score of it, drive the player back into the in goal, pin the opposition in the corner start of set.
 

Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Joined
Aug 6, 2012
Messages
6,215
Sorry completely disagree.
Sure Cliff had a lean run but not even close to Dce. And once Cliffy was on we had 3 or 4 yrs of domination. And big big big difference was Cliff did not take all our money. Dce does ( not necessarily his fault).

And in 2011 like you yourself have said he did well... why? Because he was a cog in a champion side- Lyon, Matai, Stewart bros ect. They all took unders to become a champion side.

And since it’s became ‘his’ side....fuking nada, zero, nothing, zilch. I’d literally take any other half to free us up from his ridiculous contract. In 2015 I said we wouldn’t win another premiership with him as half, as documented on here. Nothing has changed..

Cliff had good years because he had good players around him. Cliff was a magic player, no doubt, but without the players around him who benefitted from his brilliance such as Shearer, O'Connor, Hasler, Innes. Hill, Hopoate, Danny Gartner, Kosef, Toovey and of course Menzies, he would not have been the player we loved so much. Lyons had the advantage of being able to set up a great set of champion players.

Who has DCE had since 2015. The answer Tom Trbojevic and he's been injured so often. There's been no one else of substance. Maybe Walker for a time. But its been a pretty lean period for Manly back lines and even Lyons would have struggled to make an impact. Unrealistic for DCE to play a one man band.

Great players usually need top class players around them to take advantage of their skills. Thurston had Bowen, Sing, Morgan Willie Tonga. Johns had Gidley, MacDougall. Kennedy, Buderus, Sergeant , Haragon, Albert. Cronk had Folau,, Matt King, Cam Smith, Slater, Munster, Ingliss at various stage in his career at Melbourne and Keary, Tedesco at Sydney City etc. Great players have great supports. What has DCE got with Turbo out?

You've got to be realistic. One play maker, is one player to shut down for the opposition. If there is no one else threatening, of course you are not going to see the best from your principal play maker. That's why Lyons struggled in the early 90s and I assure you he was given a pasting just like DCE back then. I remember it and was annoyed with it.
 

hozza

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Mar 11, 2015
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Cliff had good years because he had good players around him. Cliff was a magic player, no doubt, but without the players around him who benefitted from his brilliance such as Shearer, O'Connor, Hasler, Innes. Hill, Hopoate, Danny Gartner, Kosef, Toovey and of course Menzies, he would not have been the player we loved so much. Lyons had the advantage of being able to set up a great set of champion players.

Who has DCE had since 2015. The answer Tom Trbojevic and he's been injured so often. There's been no one else of substance. Maybe Walker for a time. But its been a pretty lean period for Manly back lines and even Lyons would have struggled to make an impact. Unrealistic for DCE to play a one man band.

Great players usually need top class players around them to take advantage of their skills. Thurston had Bowen, Sing, Morgan Willie Tonga. Johns had Gidley, MacDougall. Kennedy, Buderus, Sergeant , Haragon, Albert. Cronk had Folau,, Matt King, Cam Smith, Slater, Munster, Ingliss at various stage in his career at Melbourne and Keary, Tedesco at Sydney City etc. Great players have great supports. What has DCE got with Turbo out?

You've got to be realistic. One play maker, is one player to shut down for the opposition. If there is no one else threatening, of course you are not going to see the best from your principal play maker. That's why Lyons struggled in the early 90s and I assure you he was given a pasting just like DCE back then. I remember it and was annoyed with it.
Going round in circles I think Bear, I agree he needs good players around him. Unfortunately due to the fact he takes over 10% of our cap we simply can’t afford to purchase those players needed.
And definitely disagree he is the same class a Cliff.
Appreciate the constructive argument though and 100% hope he leads us to premiership glory...
I just don’t think he will. I’d be very very very happy man if he did, and happily buy beers all night for you if that was to happen....
 

HK_Eagle

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Joined
Aug 7, 2011
Messages
4,043
Disagree totally, sorry. DCE is an outstanding half, who is struggling with an inept back line. I do remember Lyons being castigated at one stage, even by the media, because he was struggling with a back line that had no oomph in the early 1990s. Perhaps you don't recall but I remember it well and was angered by it knowing it wasn't Lyons' fault, but didn't stop the media and fans attacking him. There were even calls for his head.

Like any half, they need players outside them or even forwards that take advantage of their skills. In a good side as shown in 2011, he was a champion player. Trouble is since 2015 he has had a very average back line to set up, especially as Stewart, Matai and Lyon had had their day. Only Tom T added support and DCE had a great combination with Tom when Tom was on the field. Easy to forget those days.
And that inept backline pushed his foot out of touch how?
 

sheridanstand78

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Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
4,917
DCE is under fire as we do not have consistent contributions from our 6 and 9 and he takes the heat every game.

Tonight a lot of his kicks were rushed and we as a unit do not look like getting repeat sets or let alone scoring from a kick.

The Penrith game highlighted the need to see halves putting in kicks that are a challenge for the back 3 and not just turn over possession.

DCE needs help and really he needs some coaching to manage games as that is the one thing that is consistently missing from his game to take him to that next level!
 

HK_Eagle

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Aug 7, 2011
Messages
4,043
DCE is under fire as we do not have consistent contributions from our 6 and 9 and he takes the heat every game.

Tonight a lot of his kicks were rushed and we as a unit do not look like getting repeat sets or let alone scoring from a kick.

The Penrith game highlighted the need to see halves putting in kicks that are a challenge for the back 3 and not just turn over possession.

DCE needs help and really he needs some coaching to manage games as that is the one thing that is consistently missing from his game to take him to that next level!
Yep... the guy who commands millions needs help.... not he guys on peanuts putting in, but the so-called million dollar talent we invested in for this very need.
 

jbb/james

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Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,118
Sorry completely disagree.
Sure Cliff had a lean run but not even close to Dce. And once Cliffy was on we had 3 or 4 yrs of domination. And big big big difference was Cliff did not take all our money. Dce does ( not necessarily his fault).

And in 2011 like you yourself have said he did well... why? Because he was a cog in a champion side- Lyon, Matai, Stewart bros ect. They all took unders to become a champion side.

And since it’s became ‘his’ side....fuking nada, zero, nothing, zilch. I’d literally take any other half to free us up from his ridiculous contract. In 2015 I said we wouldn’t win another premiership with him as half, as documented on here. Nothing has changed..

Cliffy had some off moments, but if you want to say anything about cliff lyons
He played with des and tooves and they are champions but both had not much kicking or ball playing. They become great partly becuase cliffy had it all going on and they could do what they did.
 

jbb/james

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Joined
Jun 19, 2010
Messages
3,118
I don’t expect Cherry to win games single handedly. What I want from a half back on his coin is that he scheme and plan and make the team and the other players on the field (ours not theirs) appreciably better. Cherry just doesn’t do that. He runs around playing his own game as best he can while around him the team flounders.

A good half would look at Olakau’atu and think. “That blokes big and fast, how about I position myself to get the ball where I can run that big bloke at their small defenders”. It’s the kind of discussion Cherry never seems to have with himself. Instead he runs upright along the sideline in the pouring rain and gets bundled over the sideline when someone with the brains of a goldfish would have gone to ground.
If you play centre or wing outside cherry you are essentially playing union.
Stand out there freezing all day until some scrap comes along beacuse some bean head inside you got caught and unloads in traffic, and you get to toe it through
 

Dion Johnson

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Jun 8, 2019
Messages
528
I don’t expect Cherry to win games single handedly. What I want from a half back on his coin is that he scheme and plan and make the team and the other players on the field (ours not theirs) appreciably better. Cherry just doesn’t do that. He runs around playing his own game as best he can while around him the team flounders.

A good half would look at Olakau’atu and think. “That blokes big and fast, how about I position myself to get the ball where I can run that big bloke at their small defenders”. It’s the kind of discussion Cherry never seems to have with himself. Instead he runs upright along the sideline in the pouring rain and gets bundled over the sideline when someone with the brains of a goldfish would have gone to ground.
I am not sure if it’s clicking with DCE and Suli, the hole runs are rare. We seen one tonight when Suli scored however most time it’s a face ball with defenders on him.

Could be Suli not running into the hole often enough but he needs early ball to be effective.

DCE needs to get his kicking game back to where it was last season, it’s not going to well of late.

DCE does need help in the backline, Cust will improve. It’s the fullback at the moment having no variety in his game, can’t kick, can’t pass and struggles reading the play. Lots of added proton DCE with the cattle that’s around him.

He could take a pay cut though, bring him even with Turbo.
 

sean john

Manly Til I Die
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May 25, 2015
Messages
3,160
Someone does need to have a chat with him about his pay.. he is the captain, the leader, if he was serious about the team moving forward he should consider it as it will help the balance of the squad and his chances of a premiership. Furthermore, he would be setting an example for other players at the club showing sacrifice and loyalty to the team is needed to be successful as a unit. Players will follow and want to be here for less. If he doesn't then simply don't resign him come extension time nor give him a job at the club post retirement.. the club will owe him nothing. The club has given him plenty and in my eyes if he can't compromise then why should they? I think jake should consider it too.. 950k is way too much!!! Even 150k off would help alot. At 800k not even players like Haas, fisher Harris, finucane, Murray, radley, matterson, kikau are anywhere near that.. they would be lucky to hit the 650k mark!! That's saying something. 800k is still plenty for jake and probably still a bit high. Same with cherry 1 mil is still alot if he took 300k off that would be 450k spare. Would add alot to the team
 
Last edited:

JackDaytona

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2020
Messages
99
dce is great player when he has a good team but he no gonna carry a team on his own all yous gotta get over that he play good when team play good
 

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