[Resurrected] Big news over here: (Manu Vatuvei)

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The reality is that meth/ ice is horrible, at first it's great but soon the impact is perceived different by the brain as it changes. Most people who do it regularly don't have a positive look on it but the body likes consistency and the want for more when you flatten out grows. The manufacturer is who should be getting the longer sentence, untill the 2000's there was only three factories work wide producing Ephedrine. We could have stopped it then.
In the 90's I worked in pubs where there was a lot of Heroin and it was far less a threat than meth.
 
Here's a scenario for you...

You're in a restaurant with your partner and the waiter comes over with the wine and asks if you'd like a drop?

You're in a restaurant with your partner and the waiter comes over with a glass pipe and asks if you'd like a hit?

It's not a like for like comparison when implying that alcohol is just another drug like meth. Sure, people get ****ed up on alcohol, lives a ruined, etc. but alcohol has the potential to be consumed responsibly. Meth on the other hand...lol
 
Are you are speaking from personal experience?
I am exposed to meth addicts in my line of work. I've seen people have psychotic episodes on one hit. I've never seen anyone suffer psychosis from one stubby.

I should be clear though, I am empathetic to people that turn to drugs to fix their problems...some just flat out enjoy them but I respect that life is challenging for many people and they self-medicate. I don't believe that someone is a bad person because they take drugs. However, the destruction is avoidable and people helping make drugs accessible should face scrutiny for doing so.

There was interesting case in Griffith in the 80s where a local politician tried to stop Mafia-led distribution of marijuana (a lot of parents in the area were concerned with their children being exposed to the drug at the time and rallied their local member to do something about it). He reported a plantation to police in Sydney and it was subsequently raided and burned. The politician was murdered less than a week after the plantation was seized. He had kids...he had a wife...he was trying to do the right thing...that's a bigger tragedy than a life sentence for Manu Vatuvei...

I'm not sure what all your devils advocate is all about...just come out and say what you wanna say...
 
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You mean Donald Mackay presumably, missing presumed murdered in 1977. Gee it looks like organised crime is invoilved in the drug trade, is that a shock?
I'm not sure why you are putting me up as devils advocate? No mystery to what I said, which was that it was jumping to conclusions to say Vatuvai should get automatic life regardless of what he actually did or the circumstances. Someone (Dan?) referred I think to punishment fitting the crime, that is all I was referring to as well.
The other point I made is that harsh sentences have been happening for decades and clearly have not stopped or curtailed the drug trade which continues to grow.
 
And in asking about whether you were speaking from personal experience I too have come across numerous cases of people through my work - who have used methylamphetamines for years while holding down steady jobs and never falling foul of the law. Consuming responsibly? Maybe. Clearly it is addictive and a dangerous substance but demonising illegal drugs is a very old line that goes back to reefer madness in the 1930s, through to heroin and nowadays ice. Like alcohol and prescription medications they are all dangerous especially if not quality controlled and if not used responsibly.
 
So does anyone think the owners of OxyContin will get life?

The maker of OxyContin painkillers has reached an $8.3bn (£6.3bn) settlement and agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges to resolve a probe of its role in fuelling America's opioid crisis.
Purdue Pharma will admit to enabling the supply of drugs "without legitimate medical purpose".
The deal with US Department of Justice resolves some of the most serious claims against the firm.
But it still faces thousands of cases brought by states and families.
 
So does anyone think the owners of OxyContin will get life?

The maker of OxyContin painkillers has reached an $8.3bn (£6.3bn) settlement and agreed to plead guilty to criminal charges to resolve a probe of its role in fuelling America's opioid crisis.
Purdue Pharma will admit to enabling the supply of drugs "without legitimate medical purpose".
The deal with US Department of Justice resolves some of the most serious claims against the firm.
But it still faces thousands of cases brought by states and families.
That’s pathetic! The people responsible for the breach should be held personally responsible. The addicts pay OxyContin then OxyContin pay the USdepartment in the form of fines! Everyone is happy except of course all the lives ruined!
 
You mean Donald Mackay presumably, missing presumed murdered in 1977. Gee it looks like organised crime is invoilved in the drug trade, is that a shock?
I'm not sure why you are putting me up as devils advocate?
Never claimed it was a shock...just pointing out that it's easy to view importation of drugs as nothing more than that; importation...but that would be ignoring the collateral damage that is caused, which is why life might just actually befit the charge. That was my point all along.

As for devil's advocate...some of your questions are loaded...let's not pretend they're not. But that's OK. It's an interesting discussion. I was just saying, come out with your opinion, rather than fish for mine. It feels like you're trying to catch me out rather than have a discussion.
 
The other point I made is that harsh sentences have been happening for decades and clearly have not stopped or curtailed the drug trade which continues to grow.
Have harsh penalties for murder, curtailed murder? You put one murderer behind bars and there's another waiting in the wings. Does that mean they shouldn't be dealt harsh penalties?
You put one importer in jail and there is another waiting in the wings; does that mean we shouldn't bother dishing out harsh penalties?
 
I defy anybody to show me some data that meth is a bigger strain on society than alcohol.
Lost productivity due to sick days ($$$)
Hospitalisation due to injury from alcohol related violence ( visit any ER on a sat night)
Police resources used for assaults, DUI, accidents, DV, etc
Court time
Insurance claims
Over 45% of pedestrians who die have high level of alcohol!
Misadventures while buzzed.
Damage to children from homes where alcohol is an issue.

The best lie was that pot was a gateway drug. Lol if Doritos was a drug than yes.
Truth is alcohol is the gateway drug to most people. The whole "Drink Responsibly" thing is a joke because the first thing alcohol does is lower your responsibility. And they know it.
What's the cost of alcohol consumed by expecting mothers on their infants?

No wonder the alcohol sector need to donate heavily to our politicians.
 
I defy anybody to show me some data that meth is a bigger strain on society than alcohol.
Lost productivity due to sick days ($$$)
Hospitalisation due to injury from alcohol related violence ( visit any ER on a sat night)
Police resources used for assaults, DUI, accidents, DV, etc
Court time
Insurance claims
Over 45% of pedestrians who die have high level of alcohol!
Misadventures while buzzed.
Damage to children from homes where alcohol is an issue.

The best lie was that pot was a gateway drug. Lol if Doritos was a drug than yes.
Truth is alcohol is the gateway drug to most people. The whole "Drink Responsibly" thing is a joke because the first thing alcohol does is lower your responsibility. And they know it.
What's the cost of alcohol consumed by expecting mothers on their infants?

No wonder the alcohol sector need to donate heavily to our politicians.
You make some good points...

I'm sure there would be strong evidence to support what you're saying. I want to make clear that I am simply expressing an opinion that drug pushes get what they deserve if they wind up behind bars for lengthy periods. Yes, I did draw comparisons between alcohol and meth at a restaurant but I agree with what you are pointing out here, that alcohol destroys lives and families in its own ways as well, which is indisputable.
 
some of your questions are loaded...let's not pretend they're not. But that's OK. It's an interesting discussion. I was just saying, come out with your opinion, rather than fish for mine.
Um … loaded with what? Lol, I did express my opinion! In my first few comments in this thread (posts 114, 117, 119, 122 above). I’m not sure why you think I’m avoiding giving my opinion, if anything I probably give my opinion around here too often(!)

Anyhow I agree with you it’s an interesting discussion. Also, Vatuvai isn’t the only NRL player caught up in this squalid business, looks like Jamil Hoppa was charged with a similar importation offence here in Australia (but may end up the beneficiary of some fortuitous technicality).
 
Um … loaded with what? Lol, I did express my opinion! In my first few comments in this thread (posts 114, 117, 119, 122 above). I’m not sure why you think I’m avoiding giving my opinion, if anything I probably give my opinion around here too often(!)

Anyhow I agree with you it’s an interesting discussion. Also, Vatuvai isn’t the only NRL player caught up in this squalid business, looks like Jamil Hoppa was charged with a similar importation offence here in Australia (but may end up the beneficiary of some fortuitous technicality).
Really? What is the nature of this technicality?

I thought they pretty much had him bang to rights?
 
Really? What is the nature of this technicality?

I thought they pretty much had him bang to rights?
I think the technicality is along the lines of his lawyer saying something like - he can’t get done for drug possession/supply because the cops swapped out the Coke for a substitute.
What he was found with was not drugs your honour.
Reminds me of the old Cheech and Chong skit - my client merely found those drugs and was on his way to hand them in at the time of his arrest.
 

Ex-NRL superstar Manu Vatuvei has been sentenced to three years and seven months in jail for importing drugs, marking a stunning fall from grace.

The former Kiwi international and Warriors winger was charged with importing methamphetamine into New Zealand as part of an “unsophisticated” drug ring.

Vatuvei’s brother Lopini Mafi has been sentenced to seven years and two months for his role in heading the operation.

The brothers appeared at south Auckland’s Manukau District Court on Wednesday where Judge Jonathan Moses said their behaviour needed to be denounced.

“Your final legacy in the community does not need to be defined from what happened today,” Moses said.

Vatuvei played 226 games for the Warriors and 29 Tests and at the peak of his powers was a household name in rugby league circles both sides of the ditch.
 

Former Warriors player Manu Vatuvei, who was jailed for importing methamphetamine, will return to his old club's wellbeing department once he's released from prison on parole.

Vatuvei was once the pride of New Zealand rugby league, playing 226 games for the Warriors, 29 Tests for the Kiwis and two more for Mate Ma'a Tonga.

Last March, he was sentenced to three years and seven months imprisonment after admitting his part in an "unsophisticated" drug ring alongside his brother Lopini Mafi. The pair imported just over two kilograms of methamphetamine.

On Wednesday, Vatuvei appeared in front of the parole board for the first time. He will be released from prison on May 31 on standard and special conditions until October 2025.

At his sentencing, Judge Jonathan Moses accepted Vatuvei became involved in the drug ring after a sequence of unfortunate life events. Those included his marriage break up and forced retirement from professional sport.

He encouraged Vatuvei to not let his legacy be defined by the offending.

On Wednesday, lawyer Vivienne Feyen told the parole board Vatuvei's life cascaded due to numerous losses.

"Those losses left him with a life that was emptied of what he cherished," his lawyer said.

Vatuvei stopped using drugs the day he was charged, Feyen submitted.

Vatuvei's incarceration was an important turning point in his life as it had provided him time to step back from the pressures, move out of the spotlight and take time to think about himself, Feyen said.

He has taken significant steps in building a framework of protective factors to move forward with strong family support, she said.

The parole board heard the Warriors were keen for Vatuvei to mentor prospective players.

"He has an insight into the pressures from the media and the personal life struggles and pitfalls," Feyen said.

Warriors chief executive Cameron George confirmed Vatuvei would be returning to the club's wellbeing department in a casual/part-time capacity.

The position will be unpaid.

George said neither he nor the club condoned Vatuvei's offending.

"However as he and we move forward, the Warriors certainly want to be a part of his rehabilitation and further than that, hopefully use his story and his lessons to help teach and guide young men down the right path," George said.

"Yes he's done wrong and made mistakes, he's paid for that. Our position now is being a part of his rehabilitation and hopefully his story can have a positive impact some of our young aspiring athletes."

The parole board decided Vatuvei's special conditions included not to consume, possess or use drugs or alcohol, to reside at an approved address, not to communicate or associate with any gang members and not to associate with his brother unless prior approval from probations.

He will be seen by the board again in November for a progress hearing.

Vatuvei retired from professional rugby league in 2017, after a career spanning more than 13 years.

He went on to participate in a number of charity drives, including a Fight for Life boxing match.

He won Dancing With the Stars in 2019, then embarked on a new career in real estate.
 

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