Bateman

[double hoops]

Sounds like he was just trying to negotiate a higher salary at the Raiders and it didn't pan out. The Tigers was a falling out with Benji because he was holding senior players accountable whilst coddling young players and Bateman didn't appreciate it.

If he's treated well here he will thrive, in my opinion.

In some ways Bateman was trying to be the coach. His high standards of what the kids shouldn't do wrong. In that Souths game at least Bateman was guilty of the same poor errors at crunch times. If ya Gunna talk the talk, you got to expect to show how it's done. And that's in any footy team premiership or spooners.

 

[Disco]

Remember the days when Crusher was in full swing (not the latter years), we'd snag a young Brent Kite from the Dragons, or managed to snag the league's best centre in Lyon? We just "added" players like Rodney and Bell. We acquired Matt Orford despite many clubs wanting him.

It is natural to look back fondly and only remember the hits but between 2004 and 2012 we also recruited the likes of.

Nick Bradley Qalilawa, Paul Stephenson, Ian Donnelly, Kane Cleal, Nathan Tutt, Ashley Alberts, Mitch Creay, Kylie Leuluai, Sione Finefuiaki, Shane Neuman, Andrew Suniula, matt Cross, Chris Bailey Terrence SeuSeu and Nick Skinner.

And this is not to talk down any of these players moreso to point out that in any squad you will balance top line players with squad players and punts.

 

[ManlyTragic]

He has burnt his bridges at two NRL clubs. Will Manly be the third?

Where there is smoke …..

 

[manlyfan76]

He has burnt his bridges at two NRL clubs. Will Manly be the third?

The Spit?

 

[Dion Johnson]

Remember the days when Crusher was in full swing (not the latter years), we'd snag a young Brent Kite from the Dragons, or managed to snag the league's best centre in Lyon? We just "added" players like Rodney and Bell. We acquired Matt Orford despite many clubs wanting him

This was when the salary cap was well managed I think, the gap between the highest and lowest paid player in the squad woul not be what it is in the current squad. There would be close to a 1 million dollar gap in salaries.

The players also were aware of how ongoing success was going to be achieved and took unders to be part of that, I don’t knock any player for getting as much remuneration as they can, though the mindset of that squad is something for future players and the current squad to think about.

No doubt there are several over paid players in the current squad and tough decisions need to be made by shopping a couple of those players about to get a couple of good forwards for the club to be a premiership contender again.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

The players also were aware of how ongoing success was going to be achieved and took unders to be part of tha

You reckon Manly lured Matt Orford from Storm for unders? Storm fought hard to keep him and were furious to lose him.
The 'unders' stuff only started happening when they had already been champs and a top team for several years and some of their contracts started coming up for renewal.
Little bit of romanticising goes on about that era, methinks.

 

[Dion Johnson]

You reckon Manly lured Matt Orford from Storm for unders? Storm fought hard to keep him and were furious to lose him.
The 'unders' stuff only started happening when they had already been champs and a top team for several years and some of their contracts started coming up for renewal.
Little bit of romanticising goes on about that era, methinks.

I agree with the OX, my point being that the personnel already in the squad were on unders to accommodate those higher tier players to the club, once established at the club he may have taken unders to stay like many did.

It was more of the mindset these players had that can be learned by other players, there is more to it then money sometimes, the northern beaches or Townsville as an example.

 

[KNUCKLES]

I agree with the OX, my point being that the personnel already in the squad were on unders to accommodate those higher tier players to the club, once established at the club he may have taken unders to stay like many did.

It was more of the mindset these players had that can be learned by other players, there is more to it then money sometimes, the northern beaches or Townsville as an example.

Couldn't agree more. We need to bring this type of culture back. This mentality. The Team mentality. Type of player prepared to make sacrifices for something greater than themselves. Build a legacy

 

[double hoops]

And under Seibs Turbo goes to the NRL trying seeking to hand back half his pay. He Might actually want to win the comp next year too.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I agree with the OX, my point being that the personnel already in the squad were on unders to accommodate those higher tier players to the club, once established at the club he may have taken unders to stay like many did.

Orford only signed one deal at Manly, a 4 year deal, then he left.

No-one knows for sure what else was going on. Be good if someone writes a book one day and spills the beans, I'd buy a copy!

 

[Tragic Eagle]

The NRL undermine what players can do for their clubs at the end of a longer contract and the twilight of their career by not permitting clubs to register contracts for lesser amounts when it suits them. Ironically they let Haynes go from his $900,000 plus contract at the Titans to a $500 contract at the Eels a few years back after they would not let Glen Stewart resign with us at a lesser amount. It's curious as to why the NRL do this when they assert the purpose of the salary cap is not to even out the comp but to protect teams from going under. Let's see the NRL response to the Bronco's request re Ezra Mam's contract. Will they be hypocrites again.

 

[LeonardCohen]

Sounds like he was just trying to negotiate a higher salary at the Raiders and it didn't pan out. The Tigers was a falling out with Benji because he was holding senior players accountable whilst coddling young players and Bateman didn't appreciate it.

If he's treated well here he will thrive, in my opinion.

If you watch those Tigers games last year I think it’s fair that Benji was holding the senior players accountable. The rookies were slaying the opposition and the senior players were meant to guide the team and manage the game. I remember that game in Gosford; Bateman was ordinary and tried a couple of Hail Mary plays that turned possession over at crucial moments in the game. Guys like Papalii were shadows of their former selves and if the senior players had stood tall last year, they could have avoided the spoon.

I hope we land Bateman but I think there’s more to story than he was treated poorly. His individual performances, effort and energy were pretty poor and that’s on him sadly.

 

[eaglebuzz]

If you watch those Tigers games last year I think it’s fair that Benji was holding the senior players accountable. The rookies were slaying the opposition and the senior players were meant to guide the team and manage the game. I remember that game in Gosford; Bateman was ordinary and tried a couple of Hail Mary plays that turned possession over at crucial moments in the game. Guys like Papalii were shadows of their former selves and if the senior players had stood tall last year, they could have avoided the spoon.

I hope we land Bateman but I think there’s more to story than he was treated poorly. His individual performances, effort and energy were pretty poor and that’s on him sadly.

Probably a sign of where his head was at at that time. I can't imagine many players would have played their best football at the Tigers.

 

[Will on the hill]

Probably a sign of where his head was at at that time. I can't imagine many players would have played their best football at the Tigers.

You only have to look at Isaiah Papali'i for evidence how playing in that Tigers team effected backrowers form. When he moved over from Parra he went from the highest try scoring forward and top 5 Backrower in the comp to a plodder overnight. I bet he is gonna do the reverse when he joins Penrith next year.

If we get the Canberra version of Bateman it has potential to be an absolute bargain.

 

[Stuey Davis’s Socks]

Includes some snippets re Bateman towards the back end of the article:

Three players to front board, another can’t train: Why Benji’s got Tigers right where he wants them​

Benji Marshall is bringing in tough love, with emphasis on the tough, as he prepares for the 2025 season.
By Michael Chammas
NOVEMBER 20, 2024

Laying down the law … Benji MarshallCREDIT: GETTY/MARIJA ERCEGOVAC

Benji Marshall’s got them walking on eggshells in Tiger town. And it’s exactly where he wants them.
After playing Mr Nice Guy in his first preseason in charge at the Tigers, the coach has flipped the script in a bid to drive a set of standards he hopes will help turn the tide at the struggling club.

Next month three players - Latu Fainu, Solomona Faataape and Solomone Saukuru - will front the Wests Tigers board after being hit with breach notices relating to their performances to start preseason.
The breaches relate to two sets of criteria the trio failed to meet. The first; an expectation around weight and skin folds that they failed to comply with upon returning to training after two months of holidays.
The second related to their fitness levels and an inability to get close to the time assigned to them for a 1.6 kilometre run.
Two other players also failed to meet the standards. Impressive young fullback Heath Mason, who made his NRL debut in 2024, surprisingly didn’t hit the mark during his time trial and was subsequently issued a warning. His lack of conditioning wasn’t deemed serious enough to warrant a breach.

The other player who was issued a warning for failing to meet the time trial expectations placed on him was Brandon Tumeth.

When news of the Tigers’ stern action against the players began to leak out just over a week ago, it put all the senior players, who were yet to return to preseason training due to extended leave entitlements under the collective bargaining agreement, on notice. They responded accordingly on Tuesday with their test results.

Royce Hunt at Tigers training.CREDIT: WESTS TIGERS

But the stern actions of the coach a fortnight ago even prompted new recruit Royce Hunt to volunteer to begin training three weeks before he was scheduled to arrive at the club to give himself time to improve his condition ahead of his time trial and testing in the coming weeks. It would’ve been music to Marshall’s ears.

A notable absentee at training, however, is boom prop Sione Fainu. The 12-game rookie doesn’t have a contract for 2025.

It’s a less than ideal situation given the financial investment in his brothers Latu and Samuela - the Tigers’ recipient of their player of the year award for 2024.

Some clubs wouldn’t want to upset the family, but Tigers CEO Shane Richardson is making a point of not allowing the club to be held to ransom by agents, or players, for that matter. That even goes for Faataape - the client of the chief executive’s son, Brent, now awaiting his date with the always topical Tigers board.

Richardson also flexed his muscle a few months ago when he refused to baulk at a request from the agent of teenage schoolboy sensation Onitoni Large who wanted a clause in his client’s contract that would allow him to walk away from the Tigers if they re-signed fellow young play-maker, Lachlan Galvin.

It’s a fair request given the Tigers also have Jarome Luai on the books for another five years and Latu Fainu tied up on a long-term deal. Richardson, however, let Large walk to Manly with nothing but a guarantee from the Galvin family that they would sit down in the new year to begin discussions about a potential extension beyond the end of his deal that expires after the 2026 season.

Lachlan Galvin looks to pass during last season’s match against Parramatta.CREDIT: GETTY IMAGES

Time will tell if that what was the right football decision, especially given how much Canterbury general manager Phil Gould has been singing Galvin’s praises in recent months.

But the Tigers hierarchy feel that they need to show they aren’t going to be pushed around, and messaging off the field is as important as the one’s being relayed on it.

Sione Fainu was under the impression that he was going to get the next available top 30 spot in the roster when it eventually cleared up. With Jayden Sullivan, John Batemanand Brent Naden unwilling - or unable - to find new homes, that vacancy only cleared up recently following the termination of Jordan Miller’s contract for failing to uphold expected standards.

One of those breaches related to him turning up late to training despite assisting police with a domestic violence enquiry unrelated to him. It’s why he’s sought legal advice from former chairman Lee Hagipantelis.

But instead of promoting Fainu to a top 30 deal, the Tigers signed former Roosters prop Terrell May on a three-year contract worth $2 million on Monday.

That same day Sione’s agent Mario Tartak visited Concord seeking a please-explain. Richardson reiterated that the spot was never guaranteed to his client. In fact, the message the Tigers originally relayed was that they were always planning on signing another prop forward before Sione.

They went after Canberra’s Corey Horsburgh and Brisbane’s Kobe Hetherington before negotiations with both players fell through. May was merely filling the spot that had already been assigned to someone else.

Now Sione faces the likelihood of a $1200-a-week train-and-trial contract, pending NRL approval, until something budges at the Tigers.

The Dragons are still exploring the possibility of luring Adam Doueihi to the club as a halves option, but St George Illawarra are also in discussions with South Sydney’s Lachlan Ilias and Cronulla’s Daniel Atkinson.

Richardson knows that most clubs, at this time of year, are still holding out hope for a top-line player to hit the open market.

It’s the kind of unforseen situation that the Tigers themselves benefited from just this week when they secured the services of May on a three-year deal.

There will come a time, however, when some teams will need to fill roster spots or find replacements for players injured in preseason training or trials.

The Tigers are hopeful - once the big dominoes like Ben Hunt and Ryan Papenhuyzen fall - teams might be more willing to look at the lower end of their roster spots. If not, they’ll have to dip into their pockets.

The case surrounding Bateman is fascinating. The Tigers - big on messaging and all - went to the Rugby League Players’ Association a few weeks ago to find out what date the Englishman was due back at training after his stint in the Super League with Warrington.

John Bateman on the bench.CREDIT: NRL PHOTOS

The RLPA crunched the numbers and conceded that the Tigers were within their rights to order Bateman back to training on the final day of training on a Saturday before the two-week Christmas break. So they did.

Given the animosity between Bateman and his agent Isaac Moses towards the Tigers at the moment, they took it exactly as it was meant; a reminder that he was unwanted after falling out with the coach over perceived unfair treatment.

He isn’t the only player to have fallen out with Marshall in 2024. Naden found himself on the outer after refusing to shake the coach’s hand after their match at Magic Round. Marshall voiced his displeasure at Naden’s sin-binning at half-time.

Naden thought the coach overstepped the mark and made it personal, taking exception to the way he was spoken to by the coach. It’s the same gripe Bateman had with Marshall after a loss to South Sydney later in the year, as well as a belief that the younger players weren’t being held to the same account as the senior ones. The start of preseason speaks to a shift in that mentality.

For now, Bateman is scheduled back at training in the new year. Moses was able to get Warrington to provide documentation that Bateman in fact underwent a series of medical examinations and corporate appearances in the week after the Wolves’ final game that meant he wasn’t due back at training for another week and secured his absence from training until the new year. The RLPA changed its position.

Players at Wests Tigers training on Tuesday.CREDIT: WESTS TIGERS

Given the Tigers’ desire to release a number of players, it has created a perception that their recent decision to issue breaches and warnings for preseason performances was more a reflection of their desire to create roster spots than a culture building exercise.

The Tigers strongly refute those assertions. They want players who are willing to put in the extras.

Marshall’s coaching style has already met resistance. His second year at the helm is in the make-or-break territory after the club slumped to their third consecutive wooden spoon last season.

The roster is largely his, having the final say on all recruitment matters since he was anointed Tim Sheens’ successor. Some of those decisions are already coming back to bite him, so he’s changing the way he does things. Avoiding claims of mixed messaging is also paramount to his success.

Michael Maguire went down this path before. Marshall was there as a player and saw first hand how his former teammates resisted Maguire’s approach to change. It led to the now-Broncos coach’s demise in what was a train-wreck of a four-year campaign at the joint venture club.
The difference for Marshall, however, is that he might just have the players who are willing to change.

Topic | Benji Marshall | The Sydney Morning Herald

Michael Chammas is a sports reporter with The Sydney Morning HeraldConnect via Twitter or email

 

[Disco]

I wouldnt be against picking up Miller in addition to Bateman.

 

[Ryan]

Offer Sione Fainu $2 grand a week, rather than the $1.2k league minimum. He looked pretty darned good last season in a struggling team. Prop. Young (23). He'll have a point to prove coming home, too. 2 tries in 12 games as a prop is pretty sweet. Averaged 110 metres (could be more with more on field time). In the new mould (bustling).

 

[Ryan]

Offer Sione Fainu $2 grand a week, rather than the $1.2k league minimum. He looked pretty darned good last season in a struggling team. Prop. Young (23). He'll have a point to prove coming home, too. 2 tries in 12 games as a prop is pretty sweet. Averaged 110 metres (could be more with more on field time). In the new mould (bustling).

08. Taniela Paseka
09. Jake Simpkin
10. Ethan Bullemor
11. Haumole Olakau'atu
12. John Bateman
13. Caleb Navale

14. Jake Arthur
15. Sione Fainu
16. Josh Aloiai
17. Nathan Brown

Depth forwards: Jazz Tevaga, Jake Trbojevic, Toff Sipley, Ben Trbojevic, Siua Taukei'aho, Corey Waddell, Lachlan Croker

NSW Cup Forward pack:

08. Toff Sipley
09. Lachlan Croker
10. Siua Taukei'aho
11. Jazz Tevaga
12. Ben Trbojevic
13. Jake Trbojevic

14. Gordon Chan Kum Tong
15. Corey Waddell
16. Aitasi James
17. Dean Matterson

I get people will disagree here, but we NEED to move forward as a club (like Melbourne did) after washing out Slater, Cronk and Smith. We need to morph. Become way quicker. For 10 years now, we've averaged 10th. If ANY of those depth players (besides Waddell) get into our top 17, we are slowing down.

This shows we could have two STRONG teams that set up a winning culture.

 

[CRPSI eagle]

08. Taniela Paseka
09. Jake Simpkin
10. Ethan Bullemor
11. Haumole Olakau'atu
12. John Bateman
13. Caleb Navale

14. Jake Arthur
15. Sione Fainu
16. Josh Aloiai
17. Nathan Brown

Depth forwards: Jazz Tevaga, Jake Trbojevic, Toff Sipley, Ben Trbojevic, Siua Taukei'aho, Corey Waddell, Lachlan Croker

NSW Cup Forward pack:

08. Toff Sipley
09. Lachlan Croker
10. Siua Taukei'aho
11. Jazz Tevaga
12. Ben Trbojevic
13. Jake Trbojevic

14. Gordon Chan Kum Tong
15. Corey Waddell
16. Aitasi James
17. Dean Matterson

I get people will disagree here, but we NEED to move forward as a club (like Melbourne did) after washing out Slater, Cronk and Smith. We need to morph. Become way quicker. For 10 years now, we've averaged 10th. If ANY of those depth players (besides Waddell) get into our top 17, we are slowing down.

This shows we could have two STRONG teams that set up a winning culture.

I like the squads.
Competition 👍

 

[silvereagle]

08. Taniela Paseka
09. Jake Simpkin
10. Ethan Bullemor
11. Haumole Olakau'atu
12. John Bateman
13. Caleb Navale

14. Jake Arthur
15. Sione Fainu
16. Josh Aloiai
17. Nathan Brown

Depth forwards: Jazz Tevaga, Jake Trbojevic, Toff Sipley, Ben Trbojevic, Siua Taukei'aho, Corey Waddell, Lachlan Croker

NSW Cup Forward pack:

08. Toff Sipley
09. Lachlan Croker
10. Siua Taukei'aho
11. Jazz Tevaga
12. Ben Trbojevic
13. Jake Trbojevic

14. Gordon Chan Kum Tong
15. Corey Waddell
16. Aitasi James
17. Dean Matterson

I get people will disagree here, but we NEED to move forward as a club (like Melbourne did) after washing out Slater, Cronk and Smith. We need to morph. Become way quicker. For 10 years now, we've averaged 10th. If ANY of those depth players (besides Waddell) get into our top 17, we are slowing down.

This shows we could have two STRONG teams that set up a winning culture.

I like your thinking and direction here @Ryan. I doubt however we will ever see Jake an Lachlan as reserves. I am still big on loyalty and allegiance (yes I know) so I would not be interested in ANY of the Fainus back at the club. I wont elaborate any further.