Back to importance of a Winger

[maxta]

An old favourite Taufua has been surprisingly good in 2019, but I have no doubt on weary legs and almost done.
Garrick has done enough to suggest a long term top spot is his to lose.
I know many only rate a massive spine wins games, but a big play winger in the modern game, can decide a game.
We already have the pack imo.
I call Oates or Rapana would make a massive input, especially on the back of a few youngsters like Schuster ect to add some.

 

[Ryan]

Garrick, and hopefully Hopoate next season in the wings. Centre can be Walker and either Gutherson or Trbojevic. I'd be happy with either. A backline of:

01. Tom Trbojevic
02. Albert Hopoate (Abbas Miski if Hoppa unfit)
03. Clinton Gutherson
04. Dylan Walker
05. Reuben Garrick
06. Kane Elgey
07. Daly Cherry-Evans
08. Marty Taupau
09. Apisai Koroisou
10. Addin Fonua-Blake
11. Corey Waddell
12. Curtis Sironen
13. Jake Trbojevic

14. Manase Fainu
15. Kelepi Tanginoa
16. Taniela Paseka
17. Jack Gosweiski

Meaning guys like: Moses Suli, Brad Parker, Jorge Taufua, Joel Thompson, Trent Hodkinson, Lloyd Perrett, Morgan Boyle are either released or are in Cup.

That team would leave mountains of cap space.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

I love Taufua, he has been huge for us over the years. But it's time. In addition to his body starting to go, he is very much an old school winger and it shows. I hate to sound like certain others on here (@BOZO) but, we need more x-factor/dynamic players in attack.
I know most on here would rather upgrade our centres but we are in desperate need of some strike power on the edges. IMO this should happen first and I'd rather see some youngsters get a shot before throwing out big offers to attract established players.

 

[Woodsie]

An old favourite Taufua has been surprisingly good in 2019, but I have no doubt on weary legs and almost done.
Garrick has done enough to suggest a long term top spot is his to lose.
I know many only rate a massive spine wins games, but a big play winger in the modern game, can decide a game.
We already have the pack imo.
I call Oates or Rapana would make a massive input, especially on the back of a few youngsters like Schuster ect to add some.

Before you pay for a ferrari on the wing ..... better to make sure you have a Porsche inside him to get him some ball ......

We could have had Kenny Irvine on the wing the last 2 years and he would never have seen the ball ...

PSS ... and yes I know that kick returns are important blah blah blah .... but a Jamie Lyon setting up an outsdie player is just gold ...

 

[PONTIAN SEA EAGLE]

Are wingers just getting worse taking the cross field kicks these days.All i want is for ours to be better at it.Communicating with your inside centre would be the go.

 

[Scorpio]

An old favourite Taufua has been surprisingly good in 2019, but I have no doubt on weary legs and almost done.

He is only 27 - it might not be at Manly or in the NRL but I would say he still has at least 4 years left, injuries aside.

 

[Loobs]

He could play forever in Oztag coz you can't kick over shoulder height...

 

[maxta]

Before you pay for a ferrari on the wing ..... better to make sure you have a Porsche inside him to get him some ball ......

We could have had Kenny Irvine on the wing the last 2 years and he would never have seen the ball ...

PSS ... and yes I know that kick returns are important blah blah blah .... but a Jamie Lyon setting up an outsdie player is just gold ...

I have some faith in young Hoppa getting a better share of luck on the injury front and be a long term centre option...either Walker or Gutherson the other spot, could do a good job getting quality ball out - I recall Walker 1 game against Souths basically gifting Uate 4 tries.....

 

[Woodsie]

I recall Walker 1 game against Souths basically gifting Uate 4 tries.....

The fact that you recall it is testament to the rarity of it ..... however I concede he was getting marginally better at setting up an outside man ...

Ever single winger ... (even that useless lump of inertia T-Rex) ..... that played outside Jamie .. either topped the try list or was in the top 5 every year .....

But all is not lost ... I saw Suli pass the ball a couple of weeks ago ..... and the GingaNinja can set up a player if he can get clean ball ... but 9 out of 10 plays last week ended up in the hands of Thommo ....

GETTHEFUKKOUTOFTHEBACKLINETHOMMO .... and give the ball to the centre !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PSSS ... for the numbnuts that keep giving me inappropriate "dummyspit" ratings ..... that is what a real dummy spit looks like for future reference ...

 

[MuzztheEagle]

The fact that you recall it is testament to the rarity of it ..... however I concede he was getting marginally better at setting up an outside man ...

Ever single winger ... (even that useless lump of inertia T-Rex) ..... that played outside Jamie .. either topped the try list or was in the top 5 every year .....

But all is not lost ... I saw Suli pass the ball a couple of weeks ago ..... and the GingaNinja can set up a player if he can get clean ball ... but 9 out of 10 plays last week ended up in the hands of Thommo ....

GETTHEFUKKOUTOFTHEBACKLINETHOMMO .... and give the ball to the centre !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PSSS ... for the numbnuts that keep giving me inappropriate "dummyspit" ratings ..... that is what a real dummy spit looks like for future reference ...

The thing is though; how many Jamie Lyon style centres still exist in today's game? Maybe Latrell, but even he is a different style of centre as he creates opportunity through pure ability rather than reading the play and defense. Croker, probably but it hasn't really helped the Raiders in recent years.
Coaches have become more conservative in their attacking sets and centres now seem to take far less chances than they used to (kicking early or at all, throwing wide passes that can be intercepted, balls back inside etc). Centres have become more of a structured link in attack compared to the dynamic playmaker that they used to be. This might change, but right now it's going to be a tough ask to attract someone as good as Jamie to play in the centres.

 

[maxta]

The fact that you recall it is testament to the rarity of it ..... however I concede he was getting marginally better at setting up an outside man ...

Ever single winger ... (even that useless lump of inertia T-Rex) ..... that played outside Jamie .. either topped the try list or was in the top 5 every year .....

But all is not lost ... I saw Suli pass the ball a couple of weeks ago ..... and the GingaNinja can set up a player if he can get clean ball ... but 9 out of 10 plays last week ended up in the hands of Thommo ....

GETTHEFUKKOUTOFTHEBACKLINETHOMMO .... and give the ball to the centre !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PSSS ... for the numbnuts that keep giving me inappropriate "dummyspit" ratings ..... that is what a real dummy spit looks like for future reference ...

Fair point....I kind of hope to see Walker run those unders lines off a flat pass like the try off Kelly to best Roosters and a couple off DCE in the red zone, making space for himself off the ball to find space...truth is Walkers best asset is to "Run forest Run"....and I certainly don't think we have seen him at his best yet with the benefit of quality inside service....maybe look better in this 2019 lineup than in other seasons??
He is certainly not in the Lyon class in regards to setting up his winger....simply a different class in may ways but dangerous attacker all the same, but only Matt Gidley had the ability to get his winger into space in the same breath as Lyon....and Lyon was the Total package with sprinkles of O'conner/Gidley/Walker wrapped in 1....

 

[Woodsie]

The thing is though; how many Jamie Lyon style centres still exist in today's game? Maybe Latrell, but even he is a different style of centre as he creates opportunity through pure ability rather than reading the play and defense. Croker, probably but it hasn't really helped the Raiders in recent years.
Coaches have become more conservative in their attacking sets and centres now seem to take far less chances than they used to (kicking early or at all, throwing wide passes that can be intercepted, balls back inside etc). Centres have become more of a structured link in attack compared to the dynamic playmaker that they used to be. This might change, but right now it's going to be a tough ask to attract someone as good as Jamie to play in the centres.

Stop talking sense .... I hope you are wrong ... I hope that the creative nature of centres hasn't been lost and replacd with blunt force ....

.. but sadly I think you are correct ...

 

[MuzztheEagle]

Stop talking sense .... I hope you are wrong ... I hope that the creative nature of centres hasn't been lost and replacd with blunt force ....

.. but sadly I think you are correct ...

Yes..the eggheads and statisticians will almost certainly remove all the fun from the game if it continues the way it is. If the game is slow and predicable then so are the strategies that work the best. With the loss of ruck speed (especially teams able to actively slow it down) attacks have become predictable and unplanned creative plays are high risk and discouraged. (Set completion wins games etc).
Look at kick contests - the attacking team now rarely aim to score off a kick, instead they just want to retain possession in a better position, or ideally get the other team to stuff up and give them another set.
Today's teams will have most of their players under strict instructions of what their role involves with only 3 to 5 on the field allowed to act creatively. And it's not just centres, consider how vanilla second rowers are now compared to 20-30 years ago.
But! remove the wrestle and constant slow down, encourage the fast flowing game that we all grew up with and the payoff for creativity will return along with those players.
Edit: some good reading on the topic here:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/aug/16/sports-nerds-analytics-data

 

[Woodsie]

Yes..the eggheads and statisticians will almost certainly remove all the fun from the game if it continues the way it is. If the game is slow and predicable then so are the strategies that work the best. With the loss of ruck speed (especially teams able to actively slow it down) attacks have become predictable and unplanned creative plays are high risk and discouraged. (Set completion wins games etc).
Look at kick contests - the attacking team now rarely aim to score of a kick, instead they just want to retain possession in a better position, or ideally get the other team to stuff up and give them another set.
Today's teams will have most of their players under strict instructions of what their role involves with only 3 to 5 on the field allowed to act creatively. And it's not just centres, consider how vanilla second rowers are now compared to 20-30 years ago.
But! remove the wrestle and constant slow down, encourage the fast flowing game that we all grew up with and the payoff for creativity will return along with those players.

You paint a sad picture for an old fart that grew up with inside/outside centres and deep backlines .... but I cannot fault your observations ....

 

[HoldenV8]

The fact that you recall it is testament to the rarity of it ..... however I concede he was getting marginally better at setting up an outside man ...

Ever single winger ... (even that useless lump of inertia T-Rex) ..... that played outside Jamie .. either topped the try list or was in the top 5 every year .....

But all is not lost ... I saw Suli pass the ball a couple of weeks ago ..... and the GingaNinja can set up a player if he can get clean ball ... but 9 out of 10 plays last week ended up in the hands of Thommo ....

GETTHEFUKKOUTOFTHEBACKLINETHOMMO .... and give the ball to the centre !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

PSSS ... for the numbnuts that keep giving me inappropriate "dummyspit" ratings ..... that is what a real dummy spit looks like for future reference ...

The problem is, because centre a side has been the way to go since the early-mid 90s its made specialist left and right centres, so the days of a proper backline movement at all but over. We'll rarely, and will probably never, see the ball go from DCE to LG to Parker to Suli then to the winger. Somewhere along the line there will always be a back rower in place of what was once the inside centre's job regardless which side of the field its on.

And if that back rower doesn't have a decent offload or is a poor passer.....that can be where any ball goes to die and the centre and winger on that side of the field would catch more colds than balls.

Centre a side is good defensively because you can have a good defensive second rower protecting a weak tackling half and/or centre. But its killed true backline movements. Hell, you don't even see a true backline movement from a scrum any more because most of the backs are the ones packing it in.

 

[MuzztheEagle]

You paint a sad picture for an old fart that grew up with inside/outside centres and deep backlines .... but I cannot fault your observations ....

At least you had 50+ years to enjoy what the game was . I worry that kids today will never know the true value of sport, it will just be another "product" to consume on one of their many screens.
Like I said though; bring back the chaos of the game and the creativity will return....if only we had an administration that was more concerned with the spirit of the game they are responsible for instead of producing the storylines and fairytails it thinks people want.

 

[Woodsie]

The problem is, because centre a side has been the way to go since the early-mid 90s its made specialist left and right centres, so the days of a proper backline movement at all but over. We'll rarely, and probably never, see the ball go from DCE to LG to Parker to Suli then to the winger. Somewhere along the line there will always be a back rower in place of what was once the inside centre's job regardless which side of the field its on.

And if that back rower doesn't have a decent offload or is a poor passer.....that can be where any ball goes to die and the centre and winger on that side of the field would catch more colds than balls.

Centre a side is good defensively because you can have a good defensive second rower protecting a weak tackling half and/or centre. But its killed true backline movements. Hell, you don't even see a true backline movement from a scrum any more because most of the backs are the ones packing it in.

The younger generation have a lot to answer for ....

 

[Woodsie]

At least you had 50+ years to enjoy what the game was . I worry that kids today will never know the true value of sport, it will just be another "product" to consume on one of their many screens.
Like I said though; bring back the chaos of the game and the creativity will return....if only we had an administration that was more concerned with the spirit of the game they are responsible for instead of producing the storylines and fairytails it thinks people want.

Gawd ... you have me in a those were the days mood ..... what concerns me as much is that the media lionise the achievements of grubs and dodgy dealers like Scam and Ingliss .... and players and servants of the game like Steve Menzies are simply forgotten ...

... if we had trading cards ... I beaver would be worth 20 scams ......

 

[MuzztheEagle]

The younger generation have a lot to answer for ....

Ironically, Gus was banging on yesterday (again!) about how wingers should never pass to each other - but for me this actually returns some of the deep backline play that we (you old farts) used to see. It's just that the positions have changed and wingers are now (potentially) more useful.

 

[HoldenV8]

The game has definitely changed. Is it any better? The debate will always go on so long as there are those who remember how things were.

Some things I will admit have changed for the better. But some things definitely have not.