2025 recruitment & retention

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BOZO

Journey Man
Tipping Member
Unfortunately you have missed my point and gone on your own tangent Bozo - it's called the
"straw man fallacy"
My top coaches would be Bellamy and Bennett and right now I have Cleary hot on their heels and Seibold is significantly behind these Champion coaches imo, but not as bad as some make out....in fact, I feel he done a reasonable job in 2024, though would agree we went out with a whimper.
I 100% stand by my post above that with the current Manly roster and injuries ect, that if Cleary, Bellamy and Bennett coached Manly this season, even these Top coaches are not that magical and majestic, that they would have won the Premiership.
I am not sure about the straw man fallacy feathered friend
In your previous post you had Seibold on parr with Cleary saying that Cleary would have gotten the same results if he had the same roster as Seibold

Contradiction ...
This post you say that you have Cleary on the Hot heals of the top coaches in Bellamy and Bennet and you now say that Seibold is Significantly behind these Champion coaches
Hot on the heals Cleary and Seibold Significantly behind the Champion coaches is far from Parr

For you To discard Clearys' Extraordinary ability of 4 straight premiership wins in a row In a Salary cap Handy cap era and not put him up with the Champion coaches is absurd

Cleary has broken records and has made History in one of the Biggest achievements in the History of the game and that monumental achievement is not on Parr with any one !!!

Cleary keeps losing key players year after year and keeps innovating and wins premierships and we lose just one Turbo through injury and our wheels or shall I say feathers fall of

@Mark from Brisbane said Cleary has the Roster .
I say he has the Roster that keeps being Reduced by other clubs
But the fact is . It is not what you have but what you do with it
And Great coached that are not on Parr with average coaches like Seibold Keep Producing the Goods
Cleary has turned a Salary cap Handy cap Roster losing key players like Api and still win Premiership with the likes of Kenny .Champion coaches have the ability to do this

We will agree to disagree
Have a Great weekend my feathered friend Maxta :)
 

maxta

First Grader
Premium Member
I am not sure about the straw man fallacy feathered friend
In your previous post you had Seibold on parr with Cleary saying that Cleary would have gotten the same results if he had the same roster as Seibold

Contradiction ...
This post you say that you have Cleary on the Hot heals of the top coaches in Bellamy and Bennet and you now say that Seibold is Significantly behind these Champion coaches
Hot on the heals Cleary and Seibold Significantly behind the Champion coaches is far from Parr

For you To discard Clearys' Extraordinary ability of 4 straight premiership wins in a row In a Salary cap Handy cap era and not put him up with the Champion coaches is absurd

Cleary has broken records and has made History in one of the Biggest achievements in the History of the game and that monumental achievement is not on Parr with any one !!!

Cleary keeps losing key players year after year and keeps innovating and wins premierships and we lose just one Turbo through injury and our wheels or shall I say feathers fall of

@Mark from Brisbane said Cleary has the Roster .
I say he has the Roster that keeps being Reduced by other clubs
But the fact is . It is not what you have but what you do with it
And Great coached that are not on Parr with average coaches like Seibold Keep Producing the Goods
Cleary has turned a Salary cap Handy cap Roster losing key players like Api and still win Premiership with the likes of Kenny .Champion coaches have the ability to do this

We will agree to disagree
Have a Great weekend my feathered friend Maxta :)
This is now "Twister" meets the "straw man" 😅

You said it all and answered my point
As before Best coaches in order - imo

Bellamy
Bennett
Cleary

Would Manly have won the comp with any of them = No

Are they better than Seibold = Yes

If your arguement was the other Cleary who is on the field and not in the grandstands, I would sit up and say, could definitely have given Manly a real sight to contend with the best

So the point your still missing is, I feel you put more importance on HOW MUCH impact the coach has thinking COACHES win the NRL

I feel it's the -
club setup from general manager to cleaner
Trainers
Coaching staff
Off field discipline
Comradery
Junior base coming through
Training Facilities
Most importantly - the cattle - the players on the field who make results happen
And of course "the coaches" who are part of the puzzle also

Have a good weekend Bozo 💯🔥
 

Mark from Brisbane

“ Boomer still Booming”
Premium Member
Tipping Member
This is now "Twister" meets the "straw man" 😅

You said it all and answered my point
As before Best coaches in order - imo

Bellamy
Bennett
Cleary

Would Manly have won the comp with any of them = No

Are they better than Seibold = Yes

If your arguement was the other Cleary who is on the field and not in the grandstands, I would sit up and say, could definitely have given Manly a real sight to contend with the best

So the point your still missing is, I feel you put more importance on HOW MUCH impact the coach has thinking COACHES win the NRL

I feel it's the -
club setup from general manager to cleaner
Trainers
Coaching staff
Off field discipline
Comradery
Junior base coming through
Training Facilities
Most importantly - the cattle - the players on the field who make results happen
And of course "the coaches" who are part of the puzzle also

Have a good weekend Bozo 💯🔥
@maxta

You are 110% correct , it’s the whole set up from top to bottom , the coaches might get all the credit but just like in the field it’s a team effort.

As Ive mentioned before during my time contracting to the Brisbane Bronco’s I had the privilege to tour the Storm facilities and learn about their system ( not in huge depth of course but it was still about 2 hours ).

The meticulous nature of every single aspect is what drives that clubs success and let me assure you it doesn’t ALL come from the coach as suggested by @BOZO

That club pay for the very best people in every line item , so if it’s nutrition ( as an example ) there’s a team led by someone who is an expert , they all have KPI’s and are constantly seeking improvements.

In the training areas they have experts in every imaginable field , strength , conditioning , power , speed they don’t just have 1 or 2 guys doing this there’s probably 10-12 ( just this one area).

News Ltd underpin that operation , and being a one club , one city scenario ( even in AFL land ) there’s tons & tons of money for everything.

@BOZO ( and I’m not having a shot at him) is mistaken if he thinks their success is solely to do with Craig Bellamy, however , just like the rest of their system Bellyache is a driven man, he’s been a part of developing the system no doubt.

But it’s far from one person and we will find that out when Bellamy retires as they’ll continue to be super successful regardless .
By all means applaud Bennett , Bellamy , Cleary , all superb coaches but please acknowledge the systems they are working in. A great example of this is the Dolphins , as good as Wayne might be they haven’t been as successful have they ????

My argument in this off season is the top 3 clubs are all there for good reasons , but the coaching is just one part of it.

Storm ( as above )
Roosters ( Uncle Nick & his billionaire mates )
Panthers ( leagues club & that enormous drawing area of players ).

There’s the next echelon of clubs below this , Brisbane ( the richest of the lot, all they need to do is **** off the old boys ) , South’s ( Crowe & Holmes a Court ) & maybe the Sharks as they’ve developed that land and are now rolling in cash.

A good coach is vital , but yes even Seibold would do well at the Drizzle due to their incredible systems.
 
@maxta

You are 110% correct , it’s the whole set up from top to bottom , the coaches might get all the credit but just like in the field it’s a team effort.......
This article about the Panthers says it all


They have a system in place that all have brought in to - and a huge nursery to work with in an area that is League centric. The system starts in the juniors so when they eventually bring someone through it is not foreign to the new player. Credit to Gould he put the framework in place and the club has stuck to it
 

Ohgeez

Reserve Grader
Buzz:

SHOOSH

Which rising youngster is about to be sacked from his club? His top 30 deal is set to be ripped up because of off-field issues.

SHOOSH

Which player straight out refused to even entertain signing with a club who were keen on him because of an issue with a former teammate? He had no intention of linking back up with his ex-teammate.
 

SeaEagleRock8

Sea Eagle Lach
Premium Member
Tipping Member
Buzz:

SHOOSH

Which rising youngster is about to be sacked from his club? His top 30 deal is set to be ripped up because of off-field issues.

SHOOSH

Which player straight out refused to even entertain signing with a club who were keen on him because of an issue with a former teammate? He had no intention of linking back up with his ex-teammate.
The fact that in neither case is the player referred to as "star player" or "budding star" means even if the stories are true it's probably players I've never heard of!
 

jbb/james

First Grader
Premium Member
Tipping Member
For a team that was labelled cocky early in there successful run the panfers have been a model of consistentcy . The reason why dynasties are rare are partly because of salary cap and because its very difficult to keep teams interested and motivated once they win again and again. Not just games but titles

Not in to ranking coaches but he has done a fine job
 

Ohgeez

Reserve Grader
Not sure if it was mentioned but Kai Pearce-Paul has told Newcastle he will be testing the market in November. Didn’t have a great season but to be fair wasn’t getting great service with their half’s changing basically every week. Big unit with a lot of upside hopefully we have a crack for 2026
 

LeonardCohen

Bencher
Not sure if it was mentioned but Kai Pearce-Paul has told Newcastle he will be testing the market in November. Didn’t have a great season but to be fair wasn’t getting great service with their half’s changing basically every week. Big unit with a lot of upside hopefully we have a crack for 2026
Think you’ll find he is very sought after and will not come cheap. He’s another Dom Young. A young guy with obvious talent and ready to leave the mediocrity of of Newcastle for Uncle Nick’s brown bag.
 

Ryan

Journey Man
Our focus should be Hooker (and we already have that answer in Simpkin), and mobile, explosive, hole running forwards. Jazz Tevaga exacerbates our already glaring problem with lack of pace (particularly in defense). We have too many arm grabbers, and that's because they lack in lateral movement & line speed.

We are okay having say 2 of the six starting forwards being the slower power types (say Paseka & Olakau'atu). But around them we need pace. Bullemor is good - Jake, Burbo, Lodge, Croker, Tevaga, Sipley, Aloiai not so much. They are all the same. It's why team like The Chooks when they are on will tear us a new arsehole.

BUT, I honestly don't think we are changing / moving too much. So I also think it'll be more of the same.
 

Sheikheagle

First Grader
Tipping Member
Our focus should be Hooker (and we already have that answer in Simpkin), and mobile, explosive, hole running forwards. Jazz Tevaga exacerbates our already glaring problem with lack of pace (particularly in defense). We have too many arm grabbers, and that's because they lack in lateral movement & line speed.

We are okay having say 2 of the six starting forwards being the slower power types (say Paseka & Olakau'atu). But around them we need pace. Bullemor is good - Jake, Burbo, Lodge, Croker, Tevaga, Sipley, Aloiai not so much. They are all the same. It's why team like The Chooks when they are on will tear us a new arsehole.

BUT, I honestly don't think we are changing / moving too much. So I also think it'll be more of the same.

I agree. Lets hope we are wrong. 🤞
 

double hoops

First Grader
Our focus should be Hooker (and we already have that answer in Simpkin), and mobile, explosive, hole running forwards. Jazz Tevaga exacerbates our already glaring problem with lack of pace (particularly in defense). We have too many arm grabbers, and that's because they lack in lateral movement & line speed.

We are okay having say 2 of the six starting forwards being the slower power types (say Paseka & Olakau'atu). But around them we need pace. Bullemor is good - Jake, Burbo, Lodge, Croker, Tevaga, Sipley, Aloiai not so much. They are all the same. It's why team like The Chooks when they are on will tear us a new arsehole.

BUT, I honestly don't think we are changing / moving too much. So I also think it'll be more of the same.
Another 2 or 3 mobile types in the squad and squad mix is about right. Playing 3 Big middles. 3 mobile middles. Gives a launching Pad either style.

If Manly off loaded a couple more big middles, you could bet the NRL will change the rules again the next day.

We need the cattle to play both styles. And have that depth anyway.
 
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Bearfax

Grizzly old fart
Our focus should be Hooker (and we already have that answer in Simpkin), and mobile, explosive, hole running forwards. Jazz Tevaga exacerbates our already glaring problem with lack of pace (particularly in defense). We have too many arm grabbers, and that's because they lack in lateral movement & line speed.

We are okay having say 2 of the six starting forwards being the slower power types (say Paseka & Olakau'atu). But around them we need pace. Bullemor is good - Jake, Burbo, Lodge, Croker, Tevaga, Sipley, Aloiai not so much. They are all the same. It's why team like The Chooks when they are on will tear us a new arsehole.

BUT, I honestly don't think we are changing / moving too much. So I also think it'll be more of the same.


I think you'll find Burbo is quite quick, otherwise he would not be used consistently as a centre. He's not in the Turbo, Saab, Koula, Garrick, Talau... or for that matter DCE speed level. But I suspect he'd outpace almost every forward bar Bullimor. Said it before I've seen him several times run around players to score tries. You dont do that if you're slow. Certainly faster than Paseka, Olakau'atu, Jake, Brown, , Lodge, Sipley etc.
 

SeaEagleSI1

Reserve Grader

Stewbojevic

Reserve Grader
Matterson is such a wasted spot in the 30! I can’t see him playing NRL
 
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