2025 recruitment & retention

[Phobia]

As a few have said, not really an apt comparison between the 2008 team and 2024. I think a comparison against the 2005 team that finished 8th is more accurate, being at probably the same level as Manly in 2024 in terms of squad development.

(From the evolution of Manly thread)

2005
1. Brett STEWART
2. Chris HICKS
3. Terry HILL
4. Paul STEPHENSON
5. Scott DONALD
6. Michael WITT
7. Michael MONAGHAN ©
8. Brent KITE
9. Chad RANDALL
10. Jason KING
11. Anthony WATMOUGH
12. Steve MENZIES
13. Ben KENNEDY

14. Shayne DUNLEY
15. Sam HARRIS
16. Luke WILLIAMSON
17. Kylie LEULUAI

I'm not putting in my opinion on the whole team, as I wasn't watching footy back then, but although our forwards may be worse today, we were not winning a comp with Witt and Monaghan. DCE and Brooks is a combo that could win a comp. SEN rated it the second best halves combo behind Munster / Hughes going into 2025. Assembling a good halves combination today is a lot harder than putting together a strong forward pack.

 

[Ryan]

Yes we appear to have too many ageing forwards, I agree with that. But I think the plan is to extract the best we can out of this bunch and develop players like Patolo and Navale to come in as they age out. I'd love to sign a marquee prop or second rower but until Jake and DCE retire we don't have the cash

I really hope Siebold give the younger brigade (like those you mentioned) a good go next season. Oh, and add Jake Simpkin to that.

 

[Disco]

No way Yazz is playing edge...

 

[Ryan]

Thought it would be interesting to compare with our 2008 forward pack...

2025
08. Taniela Paseka (28 years old) - 7
09. Lachlan Croker (29 years old) - 6
10. Josh Aloiai (30 years old) - 6
11. Haumole Olakau'atu (27yo) - 9
12. Jazz Tevaga (30 years old) - 7
13. Jake Trbojevic (31 years old) - 8
14. Ben Trbojevic (24yo) - 6
15. Ethan Bullemor (25yo) - 7
16. Michael Chee Kam (33yo) - 6
17. Nathan Brown (32yo) - 7

2008
8 Brent Kite (27yo) - 9
9 Matt Ballin (24yo) - 8
10 Josh Perry (27yo) - 7
11 Anthony Watmough (25yo) - 9
12 Glen Hall (27yo) - 6
13 Glenn Stewart (24yo) - 9
14 Heath L'Estrange (23yo) - 6
15 Mark Bryant (27yo) - 6
16 Jason King (27yo) - 7
17 Steve Menzies (35yo) - 9

Total age - current pack is 23 years older...! (Average 2.3 years older per player)

I also assigned each player a totally subjective rating (based on my opinion of how each player rated against players in their position in their era)... whilst 2008 pack only rates 7 points better (imo obviously), that pack had 4 players I rated as a 9 (game breakers)... current pack has just 1...

Ratings are all based on my opinion (and recollection), and I know the scoring will not correspond with others' ratings (particularly Jake lol), but I found it an interesting exercise which really gave me a wake-up call regarding where our squad is at...

Really good assessment mate, and remember, Beaver was an enigma - literally played on in the U.K after for...hmmm...3-4 years was it, and got player of the year possibly? Don't quote me.

But I really think it comes down to balance and a mix with the current squad. We could go through periods, all of say Brown, Jake, Burbo, Tevaga, Croker might be on the field at the same time. That's why our defensive line never tends to move forward and pressure the ball carriers. We give the opposition lots of time and room (very little kick pressure ever either). Ruck speed as a team one of the slowest in the NRL.

But as @eaglebuzz said, we could mix in the likes of Simpkin, Navale, Talau in the forwards etc etc etc, we have the means, it's just if Siebold wants to go in that direction.

 

[Ryan]

No way Yazz is playing edge...

If he's not playing Hooker mate, he's a backrower (else that's where he's been playing in his career), hasn't he?

 

[double hoops]

I just think our list is cherry ripe for a young lad with a bit of speed to have a break out.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

If he's not playing Hooker mate, he's a backrower (else that's where he's been playing in his career), hasn't he?

Mostly played from the bench. Has a handful of games at starting prop, lock, and couple at hooker. Never been a second rower.
Manly list him as 'lock' (although we know those descriptions mean zilch.)

 

[Nike]

If he's not playing Hooker mate, he's a backrower (else that's where he's been playing in his career), hasn't he?

He was a lock turned hooker, then later moved to the backrow. I never watched him that closely but from what I remember he's got great defense despite being good for the occasional brain snap and having feet for hands.

Part of me hopes he's being brought in to fix up our right edge but reality says Haumole will be running off DCE for at least another year.

 

[The Wheel]

This is a great quote I reckon

 

[Disco]

Just on this side comparison thing which I'm reluctant to wade into as A) this thread is about recruiment and retention but more so B) its a bit of a flawed argument IMO....but I'm a sucker for punishment so a few points.

1. Yes, our current team doesnt beat the 08 team. That team was exceptional! 60 plus Manly teams dont beat it. I get the argument that we should always be striving to be the best version of themselves but every team bar the Panthers and Dolphins can cherry pick a side from their past to negatively stack up against.

The Tigers arent as good as the 05 team, the Roosters not a smidge on their 2018 team, The Storm nowhere near their cheating teams.

Its a redundant argument.

2. Stacking players strictly by the number on their back to prove talent of the squad is.....I dunno, a stretch.
Like Gift was a lock but basically was parked on the right edge where Olakau'atu plays. Hall is a middle as is Jake. Your better argument in my view is picking a combined 17.

08 would still win it as per point 1, they were a great team but I think it would ring a bit truer.

3. In terms to the age comparison, bit of a moot point until we know what our team looks like. You can throw Yazz and Chee Kam in but it could be Patolo and Navale who play more this season.

On a whole though, yes, we are veteran heavy.

4.We often look back with kinder eyes. Players like Hall, Bryant and Le Strange are premiership winners and I've a lot of love for them. However the fact that were in a winning team I think sometimes leads as to over estimate.
None were stars. Bryant for example is not Paseka.
Even our wingers, Wolfy was a great character, had a few good years but individually does not stand head a shoulders above a Garrick (on the wing) for example.
This is almost sacrilege.....but even Robbo can be a little over fondly remembered. Ever reliable, consistent and dependable winger but on his skill set alone not a standout.

Anyhow, I'm rambling for no reason.

Yes 08 team a better team and you probably pick 10-13 of them in a combined 17

 

[Disco]

If he's not playing Hooker mate, he's a backrower (else that's where he's been playing in his career), hasn't he?

In his 138 games he has started zero on the edge.

He has started lock, hooker and prop and the rest are off the bench.

He has not the speed, lateral movement or hands/passing to play on the edge.

If he is in the 17 I'd say bench to cover middle and emergency hooker cover.

 

[Disco]

For those interested, Yazz has started

79 Bench
35 Lock
14 Hooker
10 Prop

Custom Match List - RLP

List of matches played by Jazz Tevaga in Australia/NZ for the Warriors.

www.rugbyleagueproject.org

 

[Ryan]

For those interested, Yazz has started

79 Bench
35 Lock
14 Hooker
10 Prop

Custom Match List - RLP

List of matches played by Jazz Tevaga in Australia/NZ for the Warriors.

www.rugbyleagueproject.org

I did not know that ! Because honestly, I'm happy with him at prop, and future YARTS will be adjusted accordingly hehe 🙂

 

[frank stokes]

Just on this side comparison thing which I'm reluctant to wade into as A) this thread is about recruiment and retention but more so B) its a bit of a flawed argument IMO....but I'm a sucker for punishment so a few points.

1. Yes, our current team doesnt beat the 08 team. That team was exceptional! 60 plus Manly teams dont beat it. I get the argument that we should always be striving to be the best version of themselves but every team bar the Panthers and Dolphins can cherry pick a side from their past to negatively stack up against.

The Tigers arent as good as the 05 team, the Roosters not a smidge on their 2018 team, The Storm nowhere near their cheating teams.

Its a redundant argument.

2. Stacking players strictly by the number on their back to prove talent of the squad is.....I dunno, a stretch.
Like Gift was a lock but basically was parked on the right edge where Olakau'atu plays. Hall is a middle as is Jake. Your better argument in my view is picking a combined 17.

08 would still win it as per point 1, they were a great team but I think it would ring a bit truer.

3. In terms to the age comparison, bit of a moot point until we know what our team looks like. You can throw Yazz and Chee Kam in but it could be Patolo and Navale who play more this season.

On a whole though, yes, we are veteran heavy.

4.We often look back with kinder eyes. Players like Hall, Bryant and Le Strange are premiership winners and I've a lot of love for them. However the fact that were in a winning team I think sometimes leads as to over estimate.
None were stars. Bryant for example is not Paseka.
Even our wingers, Wolfy was a great character, had a few good years but individually does not stand head a shoulders above a Garrick (on the wing) for example.
This is almost sacrilege.....but even Robbo can be a little over fondly remembered. Ever reliable, consistent and dependable winger but on his skill set alone not a standout.

Anyhow, I'm rambling for no reason.

Yes 08 team a better team and you probably pick 10-13 of them in a combined 17

Do not disagree with any of that tbf...

I actually started out doing that comparison thinking that I could demonstrate that the 08 pack had a similar mix of "stars" and "toilers" (as I was well aware of the Hall, LeStrange, Bryant type players)... but I just ended up realising that it was a much younger pack and far more "star" heavy...

I know this current side is not in the 08 league and I know we are "backs heavy" when it comes to our "stars" atm... problem is that forwards are pretty bloody important - especially in finals...

I hope you are right and Burbo, Navale and Patolo have massive years and cement their spots... oh, and Tent "finally realises how big he is" and leads the charge...

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Do not disagree with any of that tbf...

I actually started out doing that comparison thinking that I could demonstrate that the 08 pack had a similar mix of "stars" and "toilers" (as I was well aware of the Hall, LeStrange, Bryant type players)... but I just ended up realising that it was a much younger pack and far more "star" heavy...

I know this current side is not in the 08 league and I know we are "backs heavy" when it comes to our "stars" atm... problem is that forwards are pretty bloody important - especially in finals...

I hope you are right and Burbo, Navale and Patolo have massive years and cement their spots... oh, and Tent "finally realises how big he is" and leads the charge...

Your last paragraph might actually define the 2025 season

 

[double hoops]

Your last paragraph might actually define the 2025 season

I see it the same. Without a young bloke or two having a break out year. I just don't see that energy that youth brings pushing those old blokes places.

It's still between the ears that concerns me with our forwards the most.

I actually think Jazz will be good for us, in short burst he brings energy and most of all he goes to contest.

The win against the dogs where they just hung in hung in might help the psychie.

But Jake needs to have his give a penalty licence taken away. His timing is crap, he's way to weak between the ears and there is only one way this group toughens up.

Defend it, Back it.

 

[Tragic Eagle]

We need mobility and speed in our back three forwards. Big O can't do it himself. We need a number 9 that gets to the play the ball quickly and provides crisp service and has speed to dart out from time to time and put defences in two minds. That would enable us to roll over the advantage line. At the moment we are generally attacking set defensive lines and have no second phase attacking opportunities.

 

[BOZO]

This is a great quote I reckon

View attachment 28849

Great quote Indeed Feathered friend
" We had a good team on paper . Unfortunately the game was played on grass "
Brian Clough

At Manly Mediocrity is not in our Vocabulary
At Manly we expect Nothing but the Best .
Being the Best is all about getting the Best out of your Men and Overachieving
Over to you Anthony Seibold

 

[Dion Johnson]

For me the band aid solutions at nine need to ripped off, Croker can do a job but is not the way forward along with Jake or Tevega, they can pass the ball and defend and that don’t cut it as a nine.

The team is screaming out for an effective attacking number nine who can play a pivotal role in orchestrating the team's offensive strategies.

We have Croker who is primarily focused on defense and distributing the ball from dummy halve, today's number nines are dynamic playmakers who can exploit defensive weaknesses. They possess exceptional ball-handling skills, enabling them to execute quick passes and set up plays that can destabilise the opposition's defensive line.

The best number nines posses the ability to read the game and make split-second decisions which is crucial, as they often dictate the pace and direction of the attack.

An attacking number nine must be adept at spotting opportunities to run from dummy half, creating space and drawing in defenders, which can lead to breaks or overlaps for their teammates.

An effective attacking number nine contributes significantly to the team's overall offensive structure by providing support and linking play between the forwards and backs. Their mobility and agility allow them to be involved in multiple phases of play, ensuring continuity and fluidity in attack.

The best the team looked in 2024 was with Simpkin at nine and Gordy on the pine, the recruitment of Zaidas Muagututia suggests the club are looking at implementing a modern number nine, hoping these three lads can be very effective in 2025.

 

[BOZO]

We have Croker who is primarily focused on defense and distributing the ball from dummy halve, today's number nines are dynamic playmakers who can exploit defensive weaknesses. They possess exceptional ball-handling skills, enabling them to execute quick passes and set up plays that can destabilise the opposition's defensive line.

We also have had two coaches in Des and Seibold who's Primarily focus was to build their game plan around Croker

We also know that we all make our bed and lie in it