Wolfman's no Try

[bob dylan]

Hindmarsh blatenly knocked on in front of his posts.

This was the worst decision of the night.

 

[Dan]

yes that was a shocker

 

[Boozo]

What pisses me off, and not just in this game is the tendency of the ref to call a knock on regardless of the direction the ball is lost in. Last night one knock on clearly went backwards and was regathered, and should be play on.

Lost ball does not always mean knock on, but these days as soon as there is a lack of control the refs call knock on.

On the forward pass rule, there are certain players in the NRL are allowed to throw as many as they like, they even get them labeled as 'great cut out passes' by the media again and again, Thurstan, Hayne, Carney, Marshal, Gasnier, Slater, Inglis. It seems like there is an ignore rule for these guys. And the reason is that the linesman has no reason to call it.

If they call it and get it wrong, unlike a ref they can and will be sacked when the big name player complains. If they call it and get it right they get no credit, and if they don't call it and it was a forward pass no one seems to hold them responsible anyway.

This rant is not specific to last night, but certainly there were a few in the game, personally I thought the reffing was horrid, both ways.

For instance how could the wolfman try not be benifit of the doubt? It was definition BOD, the only reason it wasn't was the defending player was Hayne.

If I had a dollar for every forward pass that Cameron Smith has thrown from dummy half then I'd be a very rich man.

 

[susan]

fonz

im glad you put the rule in black and white.where the ball ends up has nothing to do with it.it is simple-if it comes from the hands flat or backwards it is ok.It has nothing to with Hayne moving or stopping or anything else-from the hands is the only point taht matters.Haynes pass was ok and drew no reaction from our players which is a clear sign it was ok.

Also I cant agree more with the post about knock ons.We play by touch football rules now.if you drop it it is a knock on.It is absolute garbage.When it happens in a tackle they dont care at all which way it goes,they just order a scrum.It is the biggest black mark on the game.The no try at the cowboys game was the a case of a referee actually applying the rule just like all the other idiots do but because it was on replay for a try he got carved up.He applied the rule the way they all apply it in the run of play each and every week.Why doesnt Harrigan issue an edict on this as opposed to a tippy toe over the line for a dropkick.

 

[Chip and Chase]

The pass was forward out of the hands. Momentum had nothing to do with it.

 

[Rex]

fonz

im glad you put the rule in black and white.where the ball ends up has nothing to do with it.it is simple-if it comes from the hands flat or backwards it is ok.It has nothing to with Hayne moving or stopping or anything else-from the hands is the only point taht matters.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying susan. You're saying if a player stops and passes the ball backwards out of the hands and it floats forward, then that is not a forward pass.

What I'm trying to understand is how a stationery player passes the ball backwards out of the hands and causes it to go forward. A sudden gust of wind? Players breathing heavily? Curvature of time-space? Or was Isaac Newton wrong?

 

[wombatgc]

fonz

im glad you put the rule in black and white.where the ball ends up has nothing to do with it.it is simple-if it comes from the hands flat or backwards it is ok.It has nothing to with Hayne moving or stopping or anything else-from the hands is the only point taht matters.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying susan. You're saying if a player stops and passes the ball backwards out of the hands and it floats forward, then that is not a forward pass.

What I'm trying to understand is how a stationery player passes the ball backwards out of the hands and causes it to go forward. A sudden gust of wind? Players breathing heavily? Curvature of time-space? Or was Isaac Newton wrong?

the old banana pass will do the trick. Patty Morgan used to throw them in the fifties, dozen a game.

 

[Rex]

Banana pass would do it. Theoretically. True. Except the ball thrown normally would tend to hook, not slice. And neither of Hayne's passes had a curve either way over their distance.

Hayne's first pass was thrown at least 11 metres out and was caught no more than 9 metres from the line. Does anyone deny that? That's over 2 metres towards Manly's line.

And his second pass was thrown at least 15 metres out and was caught 11 metres out. Does anyone deny that? That's over 4 metres towards Manly's line.

Check it out on the video highlights on NRL.com

 

[codewana]

Surely the movement of the ball should be governed relative to the ground and not the player?

 

[TokyoEagle]

Surely the movement of the ball should be governed relative to the ground and not the player?

Why ? The ball comes out of the players hands, not off the ground. The player is running forward so momentum must be taken into account.

IMO the 2nd Hayne pass was definitely forward, i called it at the time. The 1st i thought was forward but gave them the benefit of the doubt. It was a huge defensive blunder by the Wolfman and the commentator got it right, Luke Burt will not score many tries as soft as that 1.

 

[codewana]

Surely the movement of the ball should be governed relative to the ground and not the player?

Why ? The ball comes out of the players hands, not off the ground. The player is running forward so momentum must be taken into account.

Need to find my physics textbook about this... I just don't think the player's momentum would affect the ball's trajectory.

---

Nor should I be thinking about this - I have a thermodynamics Final in 8 hours :|

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

IMO the 2nd Hayne pass was definitely forward, i called it at the time. The 1st i thought was forward but gave them the benefit of the doubt. It was a huge defensive blunder by the Wolfman and the commentator got it right, Luke Burt will not score many tries as soft as that 1.

Wolf has been hammered over that one but I thought he had little choice as Lyon had gone in (maybe not trusting DCE to handle his man?)

---

Need to find my physics textbook about this... I just don't think the player's momentum would affect the ball's trajectory.

Next time you are speeding along the freeway try tossing an old TV set out the window and see what happens.
(Immediately prior to causing a nasty accident you should notice the TV rolling forward.)

 

[susan]

whether it was forward or not can be debated ad nauseum.Our players didnt blow up so it was probably ok.But the main point fonz and I are saying is that the rule says that as long as the ball leaves the hands flat or backwards it is ok,regardless where the ball ends up.It is a pretty simple rule but the idiots in pink don't seem to apply it very well.

 

[DSM5]

Seaeaglerock8. I tried your experiment re tossing my old TV out the window of my speeding car. The TV definitely left my hand in a backward motion but continued to spiral back until it hit the ground. I was ahead of the impact so I didn't see it smash itself forward. Needless to say the pass from Hayne was forward. Imo it left the hand in a forward manner and continued to go forward. I saw it at the time and thought I screamed into your ear about it. The lines on the ground proved the fact. I'd agree with a prior poster who said that deeds committed by a select few players seem to be adjudged differently to that of other mere mortals on the field by referees.

 

[Stevo]

fonz

im glad you put the rule in black and white.where the ball ends up has nothing to do with it.it is simple-if it comes from the hands flat or backwards it is ok.It has nothing to with Hayne moving or stopping or anything else-from the hands is the only point taht matters.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying susan. You're saying if a player stops and passes the ball backwards out of the hands and it floats forward, then that is not a forward pass.

What I'm trying to understand is how a stationery player passes the ball backwards out of the hands and causes it to go forward. A sudden gust of wind? Players breathing heavily? Curvature of time-space? Or was Isaac Newton wrong?

Have a look at the replays. Hayne was not stationary whilst throwing either ball as others have stated to prove their point. Amateur arguement.

Surely the movement of the ball should be governed relative to the ground and not the player?

It's the rule mate. Sorry. As SER8 said, throw an apple out of your car window. Does it float forwards even though you've thrown it backwards codewana?

 

[Dan]

fonz

im glad you put the rule in black and white.where the ball ends up has nothing to do with it.it is simple-if it comes from the hands flat or backwards it is ok.It has nothing to with Hayne moving or stopping or anything else-from the hands is the only point taht matters.

I'm trying to understand what you're saying susan. You're saying if a player stops and passes the ball backwards out of the hands and it floats forward, then that is not a forward pass.

What I'm trying to understand is how a stationery player passes the ball backwards out of the hands and causes it to go forward. A sudden gust of wind? Players breathing heavily? Curvature of time-space? Or was Isaac Newton wrong?

Have a look at the replays. Hayne was not stationary whilst throwing either ball as others have stated to prove their point. Amateur arguement.

Surely the movement of the ball should be governed relative to the ground and not the player?

It's the rule mate. Sorry. As SER8 said, throw an apple out of your car window. Does it float forwards even though you've thrown it backwards codewana?

I am no physics professor but actually I believe the apple actually falls straight down.

I remember seeing an experiment on this.
But anyway I agree none of those passes were forward. Why this is even a debate I don't know, surely we have better things to do?

 

[Stevo]

Seaeaglerock8. I tried your experiment re tossing my old TV out the window of my speeding car. The TV definitely left my hand in a backward motion but continued to spiral back until it hit the ground. I was ahead of the impact so I didn't see it smash itself forward. Needless to say the pass from Hayne was forward. Imo it left the hand in a forward manner and continued to go forward. I saw it at the time and thought I screamed into your ear about it. The lines on the ground proved the fact. I'd agree with a prior poster who said that deeds committed by a select few players seem to be adjudged differently to that of other mere mortals on the field by referees.

Actually, in relation to the car it travels backwards. In relation to the ground it travels forwards.

 

[Dan]

it should fall in a straight line outside the car, the only things changing it would be the movement of air.

When you drop a coin inside a car, because of the Coriolis effect it seems to fall straight down to you, but if you looked at it from outside the car it would fall in a curved line.

Once outside the car it no longer is caught up in the velocity of the car and would fall in a vertical line.

It is really not a good comparison for a football pass simply because the Coriolis effect does not come into play give the ball and the player are not part of an enclosed environment.

To suggest that the momentum of the player would move the ball forward is actually pseudo science.

However it is in the rules so we can just pretend its true for now.

It really doesn't matter, because I looked at the passes again and it doesn't go forward by any real distinguishable degree anyway

 

[Stevo]

Yeah but the ball or coin isn't dropped is it? It is propelled in a certain direction relative to the source of propulsion and travels in a different direction relative to the ground.

 

[Dan]

yes so forward or backwards. If you throw it backward it goes backward, if you throw it forward it goes forward.

I dont make the rules, mother nature does.