Why the salary cap doesn't work

[The Who]

I’m a fan of there being a salary cap – but not in its present form. Currently:
1. A club can spend anything it wants on coaches, staff, recruitment officers, trainers extras. Only players’ salaries are capped.
2. A club can totally neglect their juniors or grass roots development, without any ramifications

Easts are the example.

Last season they came last in first grade and last (or close to it) in Under 21s. They have virtually no junior teams, and thus, no locals in their top grade this season.

What happens? They pay whatever they like for a ‘good’ coach, the most successful recruiter in the business, and I’m assuming a plethora of support staff. They seem to then be able to pay over-the-odds for players (The Hyphenator is an example), be in the market for everyone else who becomes available, and suddenly:

They are top four in first grade and Under 20s in one season!

This shows the weakness of the cap: You can buy a premiership. There is no incentive to cultivate your juniors and develop your sport.

Easts should finish last or close to it every season because all they do is poach from other clubs, without any penalty. No other club does it to the same degree (apart from Melbourne).

There must be salary cap dispensations for locals and long-serving players.

And while I’m on a roll:
Broncos have an enormous advantage because they are the only club in a huge capital city. They have a monopoly on sponsorship, crowds, TV and other media coverage, players etc.

No wonder they always make the finals.

There needs to be another club in Brisbane and, imo, another one somewhere in Queensland – possibly the Sunshine Coast.

Queensland has proved that they have the talent to fill several more teams.

 

[Guest]

And while I’m on a roll:
Broncos have an enormous advantage because they are the only club in a huge capital city. They have a monopoly on sponsorship, crowds, TV and other media coverage, players etc.

No wonder they always make the finals.

There needs to be another club in Brisbane and, imo, another one somewhere in Queensland – possibly the Sunshine Coast.

Queensland has proved that they have the talent to fill several more teams.

well  whats canberras excuse  then 1 team city also...

 

[ayjay007]

[quote author=Barry Hyland link=topic=184332.msg279058#msg279058 date=1280195374]

And while I’m on a roll:
Broncos have an enormous advantage because they are the only club in a huge capital city. They have a monopoly on sponsorship, crowds, TV and other media coverage, players etc.

No wonder they always make the finals.

There needs to be another club in Brisbane and, imo, another one somewhere in Queensland – possibly the Sunshine Coast.

Queensland has proved that they have the talent to fill several more teams.

well  whats canberras excuse  then 1 team city also...
[/quote]

Canberra population about 345 thousand.Brisbane population 2 million.
(source-wikipedia)So I think you get the idea why Brisbane would get a second team well before Canberra.

 

[Mark from Brisbane]

Onya Barry (and welcome)...well thought out and pretty spot on

 

[DSM5]

Barry wants to swamp Brisbane with a couple of other teams therefore bringing the Broncos back to the herd.  Doesn't work like that.  The problem with the money divide is there are to many teams in Sydney.  Send the Tigers or Souths to the cc, Rorters to Perth and the Sharks to Adelaide.  That would free up some sponsorship dollars.  All teams have a right to go into the marketplace and buy a premiership if they can.  We did in the seventies and I'm glad of it.  Support staff funding is an issue that needs to be addressed, but not using the player cap.  To make the player cap work needs a professional and independent auditing system, not the bone head Shubert, an ex Wests and Rorters player, doing the job.  Hopefully with an independent commission we can get the same with a cap auditor.     

 

[The Who]

Nice robust debate.
1. I'm in favour of less Sydney teams, although obviously it would be unpopular. IMO Souths should swallow Easts, and St George Illawarra absorb Cronulla.
2. Canberra does extremely well for a club that keeps having its stars pinched. A check of all teams will show that Canberra would have an awesome team if left alone. Manly raided the Raiders a few years back, pinching about five from memory, and we still have Kite and Robbo.
3. I still maintain Broncos have an unfair advantage over all other clubs and need local competition to spread the players, sponsorship, membership, media etc 

 

[The Eagle]

Barry i think youll find that we pouched kite from Saints

 

[The Who]

... who had pinched him from Canberra.

It seems that Canberra and southern NSW produce some fantastic players, but most choose to leave.

 

[Guest]

[quote author=jjai link=topic=184332.msg279060#msg279060 date=1280196513]
[quote author=Barry Hyland link=topic=184332.msg279058#msg279058 date=1280195374]

And while I’m on a roll:
Broncos have an enormous advantage because they are the only club in a huge capital city. They have a monopoly on sponsorship, crowds, TV and other media coverage, players etc.

No wonder they always make the finals.

There needs to be another club in Brisbane and, imo, another one somewhere in Queensland – possibly the Sunshine Coast.

Queensland has proved that they have the talent to fill several more teams.

well  whats canberras excuse  then 1 team city also...
[/quote]

Canberra population about 345 thousand.Brisbane population 2 million.
(source-wikipedia)So I think you get the idea why Brisbane would get a second team well before Canberra.
[/quote]i wasnt meaning about canberra having a 2nd team i meant why havent thy got the big corporate sponsorships & money being thrown at them  when they are a 1 city team also..

 

[Guest]

yeah kite was a canberra product bought by saint 1st  ..

 

[eagles2win]

Kite was a Raider junior before a Dragon.

I'm not in favour of less teams, Rugby League as a code is only just recovering from the idiot whoever made that decision to cull teams in the first place

 

[The Who]

Economically there has to be less teams in Sydney. I'm told virtually all Leagues Clubs are struggling, with Cronulla being the most documented.
But in expanding area such as the Central Coast, Brisbane (sorry to keep harping on this), Sunshine Coast and possibly Wellington (NZ) there is probably the support for new teams. 

 

[eagle-rock08]

Have a look at the REAL NRL (the Newcastle Rugby League) they have a salary cap and a point system working in tandem.  Seems to be working.  I've been discussing a point system for years along with a salary c(r)ap as we have now.

 

[eagle-rock08]

Don't forget PNG and an Oceanic team as possible expansion teams as well.

 

[Chip and Chase]

Support staff don't win you premierships, of course they help but there is no substitute for good players. All 16 sides can spend what they want on a coach, so Easts have no advantage there apart from a bit more cash to throw around. Brian Smith doesn't exactly having a shining record when it comes to winning GF's.

Buying a premiership and salary cap are mutually exclusive concepts, that is the whole point of a salary cap. How are one team able to buy a premiership and not the other 15 if the all have the same money to spend on players ? Sure Easts are probably in a position to spend right to the limit of the cap quite comfortably, whereas sides like Cronulla and Canberra are probably stretching the finances to do so, but in the end all sides spend the same amount on players. For mine your argument doesn't wash. This is of course based on the assumption that a team doesn't "massage" the cap.

I'd say not developing your juniors costs you more money in the long run because you've got to pay second tier and junior players to come to your club to give you that depth. If you develop your own it's cheaper in the long run.

 

[ads]

I think its fair that clubs can spend extra on support staff etc. Nothing wrong with rewarding clubs that can raise the extra revenue as long as it doesn't make the comp too lopsided. Which is what the cap stops - one club hoarding all the nice players.

Re junior/grass roots development - a few ways to address it - extra salary cap for every dollar spent on this, or perhaps the NRL should take control of grass roots stuff (and force each club to be involved with players etc) and think strategically about where they want to expand. Like the AFL does, but hopefully better than that.

 

[Guest]

Economically there has to be less teams in Sydney. I'm told virtually all Leagues Clubs are struggling, with Cronulla being the most documented.
But in expanding area such as the Central Coast, Brisbane (sorry to keep harping on this), Sunshine Coast and possibly Wellington (NZ) there is probably the support for new teams. 

again barry  i have to say the leagues  clubs are struggling because they chose to make them non smoking,,  every1 hates smoking & smokers.. but they dont realise the consequences of their action in making everything nonsmoking ,,  but they are starting to see the results of those rash decisions..

 

[Rusty]

Here is my plan :

Introduce 8 more teams,

Wellington
Perth
Adelaide
Central Coast
West Brisbane
Hunter Valley / Northern Nsw
Sunshine Coast / Central QLD
PNG

Then divide the competition into two 12 team comps, with the bottom 4 being placed in the lower division, add in promotion/relegation for the bottom two/ top two. Have a full 22 round home/away season, and a shorter season at that.

The benifits :

More teams.

More games a weak.

Easy path to expansion, simply add teams to the lower comp, then promote extra teams to keep the two comps equal in size.

Reason for teams to play late in the season, top of the table to the bottom, even those not in finals contention must fight to stay up.

A team can not go from the bottom to the top in one season, since they must get promoted in the middle.

Punishment for being poor, ie sharks, melbourne, cowboys, would all risk dropping down.

 

[ayjay007]

[quote author=Barry Hyland link=topic=184332.msg279091#msg279091 date=1280206923]
Economically there has to be less teams in Sydney. I'm told virtually all Leagues Clubs are struggling, with Cronulla being the most documented.
But in expanding area such as the Central Coast, Brisbane (sorry to keep harping on this), Sunshine Coast and possibly Wellington (NZ) there is probably the support for new teams. 

again barry  i have to say the leagues  clubs are struggling because they chose to make them non smoking,,  every1 hates smoking & smokers.. but they dont realise the consequences of their action in making everything nonsmoking ,,  but they are starting to see the results of those rash decisions..
[/quote]

There are other factors causing Leagues clubs trouble.RBT,RSA,RCG, Pokie Tax,internet TAB and corporate bookies (instead of clubtab),and general belt tightening by people all round.Some don't exactly sell themselves well either.When was the last time the Manly boys did a meet and greet at home?If you're on the travellin supporters tours,you see them more away than at home!I remember after one game,they went to Harbord Diggers for a meet and greet (to do with sponsorship),but have hardly seen a 1st grade Manly player (current) in the leagues.

 

[Technical Coach]

Because its a restraint of trade and the sooner its killed off the better the game will be. The excuse "saving clubs from themselves" is pathetic---if a club is unable to manage its own financial affairs within their own financial constraints then they dont deserve to survive.

Imposing artificial restraints on free markets will only fuel rorting of the system due to the powers of supply and demand---players earning capacities(and anyone in general) should never be restrained through any type of regulation. In the end if you have a salary cap or not its still usually the teams that spend more overall(staff facilities etc etc) that come out on top anyway.

We all know 90% of clubs exceed the cap and my own personal opinion is that Manly are one of the biggest offenders. Lets be honest with ourselves take off the blinkers and drop the Melbourne hatred if you look at our squads in 07-08 you cant tell me we are not far behind in the rorting scales.

I fully supported the salary cap when the ARL and SuperLeague merged back together as a temporary measure to get the game back up and running plus the unfair advantages the Super League clubs had at the time in relation finances but those days are long gone.

This can go into more detail in relation to (what constitutes reasonable restraint) in the eyes of the law but i'll bore you guys another time.