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Who "owns" developed players?

Discussion in 'Rugby League Forum' started by southsideeagle, Apr 9, 2015.

  1. southsideeagle

    southsideeagle Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    I was reading how disappointed Roosters are at losing RTS after 3 years of development. Through coaching and mentoring they have brought a talented junior through to a top flight fullback. They were hoping he would fill that spot for the next 10 years. He is a 21 year old earning $400,000 a season. The Warriors come along and offered $800,000 a season and he has taken it.

    We were in same boat with DCE. The Club appeared to put in the right support to take a talented junior and assist in making him a top level footballer in his position. Is it so wrong he is leaving for more money?

    I have not put Foran into this category although he was offered more money then he is worth.

    The other one that started this for me is Jack Bird. Benji was commenting on how Bird had/has lots of trouble with arthritis and the Dragons spent a lot of money on medication so he could continue playing football. As he is about to break into top grade Sharks offer more money and he goes. There was some suggestion that Dragons have salary cap pressures (wow I would love to know who these players are that are chewing up the cap. I hope they pay their managers well!)

    I just wonder to myself how much a player owes to a Club that have developed his skills. No easy answer.
     
  2. HappilyManly

    HappilyManly MWTS Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Easy to quantify if you pro rata all the costs equally amongst the Club's headcount. Less the NRL annual grant to fund the running of a Club.

    But for every RTS or Foran, there would easily be ten juniors that never reach the Clubs' expected level.

    A Player would not be as 'liable' for these costs, as without this investment the NRL would not replenish their pool of Players

    Thats why Easts don't have junior development to the level that say Penrith does
     
  3. sheridanstand78

    sheridanstand78 Well-Known Member

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    Its a reality that the almighty dollar outweighs loyalty. There is no more room for sentiment. Welcome to our world rorters!!
     
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  4. Ryan

    Ryan Well-Known Member

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    There should be an NHL type of system.

    Rookie contracts (Restricted Free Agents)
    Normal Contracts (Unrestricted Free Agents)
    Draft System
    NRL Trade Deadline day

    This is why so many quality rookies are retained by an NHL team for a long period. It's not that hard for the NRL - just copy and paste the NHL's system.

    With RFA's, an offer sheet must be provided to a players current club by the opposition team making the offer. If the current team matches it, they then retain that player.

    Heck, you MAY lose that player if the offer is ridiculous, but the club that developed said player always gets last say, and the player stilol wins in the end with a much bigger contract.
     
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  5. bones

    bones Bones Knows Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Manly taking T Rex from Parra.
    Roosters taking Jackson Hastings from dragons.
    Manly taking Whare from Dragons.
    Manly taking Hiku from warriors.
    Manly taking Ligi São from warriors.
     
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  6. Mark from Brisbane

    Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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    Bulldogs taking She Rex from Manly...:mask:
     
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  7. Mark from Brisbane

    Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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    Really it's a no brainer " bought not bred", you might be lucky and get a year or two out of a superstar kid but eventually ( if they are good enough) they will get snapped up by another club.

    The Turbo kids, if they continue , will get huge offers by other clubs in 2 years.

    So maybe the Bulldogs " bought not bred" approach is the way of the future.
     
  8. bob dylan

    bob dylan Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    No difference to us workers.

    We work a week and get paid for a week.

    Next week we repeat.

    We can quit at any time if a better offer comes along. Would you like your employer to say you cant go because we have spent a lot money on training you up to your current level or you owe them for that training?

    Try not to get too caught up in this rubbish people.
     
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  9. BOZO

    BOZO Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    Our Godfather Ken Arthurson bought and bought well :)
     
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  10. robbiea

    robbiea Well-Known Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    A draft system would be so good for the NRL.Every year the teams at the bottom of the table get the 1st picks of the draft.Keeps the teams honest ,players want to leave before contract up ,trade them for either other players or picks in next years draft.
     
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  11. Mark from Brisbane

    Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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    Whilst not perfect this is one area the AFL are streets ahead of us.
     
  12. bob dylan

    bob dylan Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    That would be no good because Roosters wouldn't get first pick every time.
     
  13. Mark from Brisbane

    Mark from Brisbane Living the dream Premium Member

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    Lol and that would be bad why??
     
  14. Daddycool08

    Daddycool08 Well-Known Member

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    Yes SSE there is no loyalty and there is no property rights attached to players.

    robbiea while I agree with a type of draft system I do prefer a points system where you can play a player what he is worth but your total team cannot add up to more than say 25,000 points based on experience, development and length of service.

    That would make the competition fairer and more manageable. But the NRL will not entertain the idea of a points system - it is too hard to rort. Whereas the salary cap as has been seen is reasonably easy to rort.

    I replied on another thread how Souths, Roosters and the Dogs will be the only one's able to field a top-notch team in a few years (or now) due to Third Party Contracts. Sigh! It will eventually kill off the league.

    Maybe a rogue competition can be started up in a few years. (Heresy I know but possible.)
     
  15. Snake

    Snake Doing The Eagle Rock!

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    As far as I can gather, the whole point of the salary cap is precisely what's happened with RTS. He has come through the grades and performed at a level that warrants a big$ contract, and because the Roosters have so many great players, the can no longer afford to keep them all, so a player moves on to strengthen another club and give them a shot at premiership glory. That's the whole point?! To spread ALL the talent, not just the fringe players and journeyman that poor Roosters aren't interested in; ALL the talent.

    What sucks about the cap, is not juniors moving to new clubs (hell, every player was a junior somewhere), it's uncapped third party deals that prevent the cap from working to it's optimum.

    The money the Roosters spent on development wasn't out of the kindness of their own hearts, it was to build a strong playing roster, and like all 16 clubs, you keep a portion and lose a portion (and from what I can gather, they do better than most at keeping a large portion), but you keep developing and spending anyway for the portion of juniors you do manage to keep.

    It's pretty simple; the Roosters "own" whoever they want to "own", and when it goes against them, they want to cry about it...they'll get no sympathy here. Maybe they should give Jackson Hastings back to St George, if they feel so strongly about the morals of development.
     
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  16. Chip and Chase

    Chip and Chase True Supporter Staff Member Administrator Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    For a draft to be implemented it HAS to have the support of the players otherwise it is a "restriction of trade" and essentially illegal. You cannot force players to play for a certain side. Tezza already challenged this and won back in the early 90's when the ARL tried it.

    A draft has merit no doubt, as it is successfully implemented in many other sports around the world. It's a matter of the NRL sitting down with the RLPA and negotiating a deal that everyone is happy with. Without the players support it will never happen.
     
  17. Snake

    Snake Doing The Eagle Rock!

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    you are correct. I do find it hard to fathom how it can happen in the AFL, and not the NRL because of something that happened 25 years ago. You'd think by now, a disgruntled AFL player would have cried foul and gone to court, and dismantled the draft system of the AFL.
     
  18. Peter C

    Peter C Well-Known Member

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    I don't know whether a draft system would work, in the case of RTS, it was more or less a perfect storm for him, Tomkins wants to go and RTS wants to move back to NZ, and he got lucky that Tomkins frees up $800,000 in salary cap space.
    If any other club offered him around 500,000-600,000 he probably would have stayed at the Roosters for less, knowing that in his next contract it would be upgraded
     
  19. SeaEagleRock8

    SeaEagleRock8 Sea Eagle Lach Staff Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    The NRL is so weak when it comes to forward planning. The obvious disaster of star players signing for rivals full seasons in advance is merely one example.

    There are many models from overseas sports whose professionalism is far more advanced than rugby league. If the NRL had anyone studying capology it would help. Luxury taxes, long serving player allowances, and some form of draft could all have merit. If NRL players had a real players association they could easily negotiate away some player rights in return for a greater player cut from the games revenues, to make a draft work.
     
  20. bob dylan

    bob dylan Well-Known Member Premium Member 2016 Tipping Competitor

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    This is a real problem many of you have overlooked.

    You really have no sympathy for the poor old Chooks, imagine developing players and having other clubs come in and snatch them.

    Look at all the home grown talent that they have developed!
     

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