Vale Brookvale?

[Rex]

I don't see anything but hate out there for Manly. Unfounded hate. It's not even jealousy. They don't know why they hate us.

Is that the Manly you want to support? A compromised, hollowed out, watered down McFranchise version of our club?

We should have died with dignity rather than disgracing our name by associating with the scummy cellar dweller bears fifteen years ago. It's been one compromise after another since then.

When circumstances change, we change or we suffer/die. Circumstances look like they may be changing. And you and I can't control whether they do change or not. Can we?

What I want is for Manly to stay at Brookie forever. And wanting it doesn't make it true. What I want more is for Manly to face new challenges front-on, what ever they are, without fear.

And adapt intelligently.

 

[Rex]

I don't see anything but hate out there for Manly.

Ironically, being hated as a club indicates success, not failure. It's a defining sign of success.

In the late 60s I hated Souths, 80s Canterbury, 2000's Melbourne. And once they consistently start losing I hate them less.

The Collingwoods, Man U's, etc of the world are not only the most hated, but the most supported. The biggest barrier to our support growing may be a physical one - what we love the most - our deep attachment to the Northern Beaches Peninsula. God's country. Moving to ANZ may change that perception for many. A bonus is that reconfiguring ANZ to a rectangle would change the dead atmosphere there entirely. If forced to move, Alliance would signal our decline, and ANZ a possible rebirth.

The sign of decline for a footy club is widespread popularity. If people barrack for you as their second team (a la North Sydney Bears) you know you're in deep trouble.

 

[Dan]

If everyone 'bent to 21st century realism' there would be no place for that ancient idealogy we call religion.
So maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea after all.

I don't know about that, I was speaking to a muslim mate from Tunisia the other day, whilst we ate bacon, I queried him on this whilst he took a mouthful of Black pudding and he said, it would be foolish to take the religious texts literally, and the idea of not eating bacon, was more about people getting sick from spoiled and diseased food back then, these days we know more about it. Thus he eats pork products and he has adapted his religion to 21st century views.

 

[StuBoot]

Manly fans will follow eventually. We heard this with Carlton and Collingwood and now they are loaded. It had to happen and SFS will be central for a lot of people. If Brookie locals were so parochial we would be filling 19k every game easily. Big reason we lose so much money.

Have you ever looked at a map of Melbourne?

There are eight clubs - Collingwood, Carlton, Richmond, Melbourne, Nth Melb, Hawthorn, Western Bulldogs ( Footscray ), Essendon - not counting Fitzroy and Sth Melbourne - within 10kms from the MCG or Etihad and all trams/roads/trains lead there.
That's ALL the Melbourne teams so it doesn't matter where your supporter base is/was/will be.

The NRL are totally out of touch with what their product is and represents and the teams that are "Sydney based".
I'd bet it's easier for a Panthers fan ( assuming they live in Penrith) to get to Allianz by public transport than it is for someone from Brookie or Cronulla and they live 25-30kms further away.
Yet they want all the Sydney based teams to play out of three stadiums - four if you count Penrith.

They seem to forget that there are Manly fans in Campbelltown, Saints fans in Eastwood, Tigers fans in Gosford and most of them would prefer to travel to Brookie, Kogarah or Leichhardt and sit on the hill and watch all three grades because that's what our teams represent and we're they're from.

I dare say, I'd rather we play at Gosford and make it our own of sorts than be just another tenant at Allianz or ANZ.

 

[Loobs]

I can't see us staying at Brookie, especially if they're gonna surround the place with apartments with next to no parking.

The sooner we approach for an upgraded Rat Park, the better. Brookie with an small upgrade will be lucky to be even good enough for another 7-8 years.

If they knock down Allianz and rebuild. The Waratahs and Syd FC are going to need a new home ground. If we had a new home ground by then, both could play a few of their home games at Rat Park in the 3 year period of the Allianz rebuild.

Oh hey @Loobs

 

[Rex]

Have you ever looked at a map of Melbourne?

There are eight clubs - Collingwood, Carlton, Richmond, Melbourne, Nth Melb, Hawthorn, Western Bulldogs ( Footscray ), Essendon - not counting Fitzroy and Sth Melbourne - within 10kms from the MCG or Etihad and all trams/roads/trains lead there.
That's ALL the Melbourne teams so it doesn't matter where your supporter base is/was/will be.

In Melbourne, most AFL teams identities are not location-based. Yes, the location names of the teams are virtually all inner-Melbourne. Yet most people live in outer suburbs and support an inner-Melb club. The excepton would be Geelong - their identity is firmly location-based. The outcome is that supporters of the different teams are splattered everywhere - not centralised in suburbs. In my street in Melbourne no two households supported the same team, yet most people supported a team.

We have to decide whether our identity is location-based (like Geelong) or not (like the other Melb AFL teams). If our identity is location-based then we exclude most of Sydney's population from our effective support base. We then restrict our potential effective support base to Northern Beaches residents who don't mind being hated by the rest of Sydney. And the question then becomes can we survive?

Souths have retained the name yet have expanded their identity way beyond the reaches of Redfern suburbs - by moving to ANZ. And their support base has taken off. We could do the same.

 

[HappilyManly]

The Football Club has no funds to fight in court to uphold the stipulations of the Preference Share.

A relocation to WA is more lucrative for the Franchise, the NRL and the Broadcasters.

I expect this to happen as opposed to a move to an economically challenged Central Coast

Our Leagues Club has already been sold off, the licence for Brookie has already been cancelled and the announcement of 'life memberships' to the Franchise, strips the final tangible connection to our Manly Warringah District

Super League blueprint is materializing after 10 years of it being conceived by that twerp Ribot

Melbourne does not compare to Sydney in logistics, so comparisons are ludicrous.
AFL also had to relocate a couple of their Clubs to Brisbane and Sydney to soak up the Corporate dollars.

 

[Loobs]

I still think they will have a solid crack at teaming with Pittwater to redevelop Rat Park before any plan to move is initiated. Brookvale though is most likely dead in the water but it's no coincidence that they are pushing pre season events to Ratty.

Remember, Penn has a bit of a hard on for the Mariners for some reason. He always talks about sharing the ground with them when he discusses his future plans, so the new stadium would likely house us, the Rats and a few A League games in summer.

There is really no reason why the northern beaches shouldn't have a stadium that at least rivals Gosford. That wouldn't be a ridiculous proposition. It gives us a decent stadium that will get used, will allow council to expand Warriewood's park and ride for weekday use and Ratty has the surrounding size to accommodate all of this without it being a major impost to the locals.

 

[Brookie Brawler]

I think Souths' expanded popularity has more to do with being kicked out of the comp and the campaign to get them back in than the move to ANZ.

In the years that they were out more people than ever jumped on the bandwagon.

Once they got back in crowds weren't spectacular (after the initial Charity Shield hype) because on the field they still sucked.

It wasn't until 2007 after Russell Crowe and Peter Holmes a Court bought them and they turned around their on field form (which coincided with a move to ANZ) that the bandwagoners actually started consistently going to games).

They also had a head start in the relatively new membership mindset as it was a way to show support while they weren't actually playing games so most of their fans actually became members before a lot of fans of other teams had really even heard of the concept.

Souths went to ANZ because they got a better deal there. I doubt they would see any drop in crowds or members if they went back to Allianz.

If Manly was to move to ANZ or Allianz I think numbers would drop initially because the casual fans wouldn't travel from the beaches. The numbers might grow over the years but only if the club can survive long enough.

 

[Loobs]

I think Souths' expanded popularity has more to do with being kicked out of the comp and the campaign to get them back in than the move to ANZ.

In the years that they were out more people than ever jumped on the bandwagon.

Once they got back in crowds weren't spectacular (after the initial Charity Shield hype) because on the field they still sucked.

It wasn't until 2007 after Russell Crowe and Peter Holmes a Court bought them and they turned around their on field form (which coincided with a move to ANZ) that the bandwagoners actually started consistently going to games).

They also had a head start in the relatively new membership mindset as it was a way to show support while they weren't actually playing games so most of their fans actually became members before a lot of fans of other teams had really even heard of the concept.

Souths went to ANZ because they got a better deal there. I doubt they would see any drop in crowds or members if they went back to Allianz.

If Manly was to move to ANZ or Allianz I think numbers would drop initially because the casual fans wouldn't travel from the beaches. The numbers might grow over the years but only if the club can survive long enough.

Average people like Souths because white collar people in Australia like to pretend they are working class. We suffer from the idiotic Silvertails stigma which has the opposite effect. Combined with our recent decade of success and the fact we represent a very distinct area, it means we aren't a team that the casual fan is drawn to. Our best hope of getting them is to WIN NOW and draw in the pathetic front runner fan who is not necessarily going to be there in ten years.

But you know what - **** them. If a front runner wants to throw down for a membership and fluff our core numbers like what happens with Souths, so be it if it means we last.

 

[Rex]

The Football Club has no funds to fight in court to uphold the stipulations of the Preference Share.

A relocation to WA is more lucrative for the Franchise, the NRL and the Broadcasters.

I expect this to happen as opposed to a move to an economically challenged Central Coast

Our Leagues Club has already been sold off, the licence for Brookie has already been cancelled and the announcement of 'life memberships' to the Franchise, strips the final tangible connection to our Manly Warringah District

Super League blueprint is materializing after 10 years of it being conceived by that twerp Ribot

Melbourne does not compare to Sydney in logistics, so comparisons are ludicrous.
AFL also had to relocate a couple of their Clubs to Brisbane and Sydney to soak up the Corporate dollars.

Ouch.

We have to adapt. And adapt significantly. Which means being willing to let go of some things.

Expanding the vision of the club to cover greater expanses of Sydney - which would involve moving to ANZ - is the only viable option I see to the likes of a Fitzroy-style death via Perth.

 

[Captain Moondog]

A move to W.A. would see long term fans leave in droves and attracting new fans in an AFL heartland could prove problematical. You'd hope the powers that be would take this into account before leaping in blindly but somehow I doubt it.

 

[tookey]

Here's a thought.

Why don't the Penns donate the profit that they made for sale of the leagues club to the ratepayers of Warringah on the understanding that all of the funds are used to redevelop brookvale oval?

The proceeds of the sale of the club really belong to the members anyway

 

[Rex]

We suffer from the idiotic Silvertails stigma which has the opposite effect.

Nowadays people are more mobile. They move suburbs easily. So we can lose supporters who identify by location very easily.

Some people pick a team based on colour, some based on a favourite player, some based on recent wins, some based on perceived socioeconomic (silvertails/fibros) class, etc. Being seen as different (eg silvertails) is a very good thing in that environment - but ONLY if you're not excluding the vast majority of people based on a single attribute - location.

It's the principle of selecting a niche - like fringe parties in the Senate do. They don't need to be widely liked, they need to be loved by what can be a small minority. They can be hated by the rest and thrive.

There are plenty of teams targeted at the working class. Our niche may be people who like to see themselves as more upwardly mobile (and don't live East of Sydney)? The population size of Sydney can work well with niches - it turns a small percentage into huge numbers.

 

[Loobs]

Also the big thing Souths have in their favour is that every moron out there apparently has an uncle or someone who used to play for Souths*

*apparently but they can never remember the year or the exact position or who his team mates were or basically any of the key details

 

[Loobs]

Nowadays people are more mobile. They move suburbs easily. So we can lose supporters who identify by location very easily.

Some people pick a team based on colour, some based on a favourite player, some based on recent wins, some based on perceived socioeconomic (silvertails/fibros) class, etc. Being seen as different (eg silvertails) is a very good thing in that environment - but ONLY if you're not excluding the vast majority of people based on a single attribute - location.

It's the principle of selecting a niche - like fringe parties in the Senate do. They don't need to be widely liked, they need to be loved by what can be a small minority. They can be hated by the rest and thrive.

There are plenty of teams targeted at the working class. Our niche may be people who like to see themselves as more upwardly mobile (and don't live East of Sydney)? The population size of Sydney can work well with niches - it turns a small percentage into huge numbers.

Our best niche of the past decade I reckon has been likeable Kiwis. Really drove our NZ expat supporter base and served us well on the games we moved over there. More of that and to that end, if Tapau keeps doing what he's been doing since he joined well keep that once Matai retires.

 

[MadMarcus]

Here's a crazy idea... How about splitting the $1b equally amongst the Sydney clubs. That way clubs who decide to share a stadium would get more to share on that stadium, but if a club wants to stay on their own in a suburban ground they can do that too. They can then live and die by their own decisions rather than have an agenda forced down their throats.

 

[SeaEagleRock8]

I heard John Grant on ABC radio last night emphatically saying the SeaEagles/Sharks/Panthers will NOT be playing at suburban grounds within 5 years. Will the Football Club fight this and kill the club or bend to 21st Century realism is my question.

It might happen sooner than we think. I made a submission to Warringah Council about their rates for this year, telling them to be realistic, and this is what I received on Friday:

Proposed Amendment of 2015/16 Fees and Charges for Brookvale Oval Hire Fees


Dear *********

Thank you for your interest in the Proposed Amendment of 2015/16 Fees and Charges for Brookvale Oval Hire Fees.

The purpose of proposing the new fee was to ensure that the Manly Warringah Sea Eagles (MWSE) would be able to play at Brookvale Oval in the 2016 season after having chosen to terminate their 2015 license. If a new fee is not adopted and the MWSE don’t sign a formal license then it will not be possible for NRL games to be played at the ground. The proposed new fees are comparative to the 2015 fees.

The Council will consider the proposal next Tuesday 16 February, 6pm in the Council Chambers, Civic Centre Dee Why.

·View the Council Report (item 7.4)

You can also view the background in the library on theproject page.

Thank you once again

Kind regards


Steve Johnson

Yes I expect all of us who made a submission received this 'response'.

According to the Council's own report, they called for submissions and received 1937 submissions, of which 1 (one) percent were in favour of Council's proposed new fees. Yet Council have recommended to adopt the fees despite this crushing 'no' vote.

Outrageous!

There is really no reason why the northern beaches shouldn't have a stadium that at least rivals Gosford

Yes. We've won so many football games, and we shouldn't countenance the option of giving up in this game of political football.

 

[Rex]

Yes. We've won so many football games, and we shouldn't countenance the option of giving up in this game of political football.

That's fine if those with power want that fight for Brookie.

The article suggests that the power base at ARL headquarters certainly don't want that fight. So it comes down to Penn wanting it. Do you think he does? And if he doesn't, who can change those dynamics?

 

[MadMarcus]

Who else is looking forward to our first "content" of the season? I hope our franchise wins a lot of contents this year. It would be good for the product.