TOOVEY the coach

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Ryan said:
Your right Ralphie, but I'd suggest you not bother trying to prove that point. Ok, it's great winning in the season proper and all, and I'd much prefer that to losing all the way through - but in big games, we do appear to get out coached.

In fact, against good, top 4 teams we tend to struggle.

In all but one of the games Manly played against the other top 4 sides this year, we have been missing our best (and most important) player in Brett Stewart. In the one game against a top 4 side he did play in (v Souths), i believe we would have won had a Tom Symonds try been awarded like it should have. If Ralphie can add weight to his argument by pulling out the 'controversy card' for the hand of Foran call in the NQ final (even though Manly completely outplayed the cowboys that night) then why can't he also say that controversy cost manly against Souths. Souths did after all, go the length of the field off the back of that penalty and score a try in that set of six. It was a 12 point turn around. We were certainly not out-coached that night. We had a draw in Melbourne without Brett Stewart Playing. Not out- coached again. We lost once to the roosters without Brett Stewart and once without Kieran Foran, both times we were still in with a chance of winning with less than ten minutes remaining. I believe both games were more than winnable had those players played. But if you Toovey haters want to judge manly on those stats then go ahead. Last year manly were defending premiers. Remind again how we went with Hasler as coach when we were defending Premiers? We certainly didn't make it to a GF qualifier that's for sure. In fact we scraped into the eight. We only made the eight because Melbourne were not playing for points. Had Melbourne been competing for points we would have missed the finals.
 
Gees some of you blokes stun me.
Look at st George post Bennett for a great example.

Toovey was given a good foundation but he's run with it.
We were knocked last year by the eventual premiers. He's got a squad that All the experts tipped to slide right in the thick of the premiership mix.

I'm glad Ryan and Ralphie you fellas aren't my boss because you have unrealistic expectations lads.
 
Ralphie said:
Berkeley_Eagle said:
Ralphie said:
Success is judged by results in the big games.

1. 2012 WCC = fail
2. 1st 2012 Semi V Canterbury = fail
3. 2nd 2012 Semi V Nth Qld = pass (Hand of Foran)
4. 3rd 2012 Semi V scum = fail

I rate him at 25% so far. In fact I'll go as far as to say we have not won a single important game under Tooves without controversy.

I think he is a very good developing coach, but until we win a big game or two he will be just another coach on the up.

I classify every week a big game

So if we were to say.....finish 2nd on the competition ladder at the end of the regular season for the next three years, but go out the back door in the finals each year, then we would conclude that Tooves is a great coach.

The games that are important are the games that are pressure games against the best opposition. If we can't start winning those games, then I for one won't be able to rate Tooves any better than a Brian Smith who was unable to win a GF.

Your comparing Toovey to Brian Smith FMD

Both Roosters games with an ounce of luck we would have won

Souffs were also lucky to beat us as well in the first round

Btw Who do you classify as best opposition ?
As you know lots of clubs lift to play us


Ryan said:
and I'd much prefer that to losing all the way through

Then u should go and support Parra or the tigers
 
Berkeley_Eagle said:
Ralphie said:
Berkeley_Eagle said:
Ralphie said:
Success is judged by results in the big games.

1. 2012 WCC = fail
2. 1st 2012 Semi V Canterbury = fail
3. 2nd 2012 Semi V Nth Qld = pass (Hand of Foran)
4. 3rd 2012 Semi V scum = fail

I rate him at 25% so far. In fact I'll go as far as to say we have not won a single important game under Tooves without controversy.

I think he is a very good developing coach, but until we win a big game or two he will be just another coach on the up.

I classify every week a big game

So if we were to say.....finish 2nd on the competition ladder at the end of the regular season for the next three years, but go out the back door in the finals each year, then we would conclude that Tooves is a great coach.

The games that are important are the games that are pressure games against the best opposition. If we can't start winning those games, then I for one won't be able to rate Tooves any better than a Brian Smith who was unable to win a GF.

Your comparing Toovey to Brian Smith FMD

Both Roosters games with an ounce of luck we would have won

Souffs were also lucky to beat us as well in the first round

Btw Who do you classify as best opposition ?
As you know lots of clubs lift to play us

Youre right BE. he is Comparing Toovey to Brian Smith because he hasn't didn't win a premiership from his only attempt when Smith had 20+ attempts. LOL
 
I'm bookmarking this thread. If Jamie holds up the cup someone better hand Ralphie a rag to why the egg from his face
 
Something that has never sat that well with me is the whole "never wins the big one" argument when it comes to coaches

They have to be pretty good to even get close in the first place.

Look at how many times Bozo was a runner up (from memory he was 2 from 5 when it came to grand finals) does that make him less of a coach?
 
How long did it take Wayne Bennett to win a 'big' game with basically the Qld side underneath him

I guess we must also say Ricky Stuart outdoes Toovey as a coach as well because he won a comp and made a couple more GFs ?

For me the whole big game thing is far too simplistic to rate a coach. For me a good coach is the bloke who gets his side consistently in the position to be in with a shot at those big games, and that is where you look at the likes of Hasler, Bennett etc who are generally there or thereabouts. As we hear a lot, luck plays a big part in winning the ultimate prize at time, a key playmaker goes down these days and it is bloody tough to win it, look at when Reynolds went off in the Prelim last year, Souths looked the better side, he did his hammy, then the Dogs took control. That isn't a coaching issue at all

The name Brian Smith has been tossed up. Sure he can be called a choker etc coz he never won the comp, and that puts him a level below the top coaches, but generally he managed to get his sides up the ladder and consistenly in the fight, that is why I believe he was a decent coach
 
Another mark of a good coach is if players improve as individuals. I think we've seen enough of that in the last 2 years to say Tooves ticks that box as well.
 
Its so great to read Keiran Foran's comments on Toovey as a coach. Two of our new players (Symonds and Horo) did not want to leave their clubs last year. Yet now they love Manly so much they don't want to leave here.If that isn't a positive endorsement of what Toovey is doing with this squad then I don't know what is. I know winning is important but in all our losses we have been competitive until the end and that could not be said for all the other teams. I would much rather have Toovey as our coach than any other coach in the NRL.
 
There is some merit in reserving some judgement on Tooves in regards to winning the big games. But it is easy to see why some have their noses out of joint at Ryan and Raphie as both have been overly critical at times with little justification. Obvious axes to grind.
 
Ralphie said:
Success is judged by results in the big games.

1. 2012 WCC = fail
2. 1st 2012 Semi V Canterbury = fail
3. 2nd 2012 Semi V Nth Qld = pass (Hand of Foran)
4. 3rd 2012 Semi V scum = fail

I rate him at 25% so far. In fact I'll go as far as to say we have not won a single important game under Tooves without controversy.

I think he is a very good developing coach, but until we win a big game or two he will be just another coach on the up.
Pretty sure a good coach would not want their team peaking early in the season for a trophy that does not really matter compared to the NRL gf trophy. Also, losing Lyon early in the first half against Canterbury did not help with the result if you look at how Canterbury scored their tries. Lastly, that game in Melbourne was always going to be tough, just look at Manly's past results down their in the semi's under Hasler.
 
Ralphie said:
Success is judged by results in the big games.

1. 2012 WCC = fail
2. 1st 2012 Semi V Canterbury = fail
3. 2nd 2012 Semi V Nth Qld = pass (Hand of Foran)
4. 3rd 2012 Semi V scum = fail

I rate him at 25% so far. In fact I'll go as far as to say we have not won a single important game under Tooves without controversy.

I think he is a very good developing coach, but until we win a big game or two he will be just another coach on the up.

Des Hasler at Manly:

1. 2005 Finals v Parra - Fail
2. 2006 Finals v Knights - Fail
3. 2006 Finals v Dragons - Fail
4. 2007 Finals v Souths - Pass
5. 2007 Finals v Cowboys - Pass
6. 2007 GF v Scum - Fail
7. 2008 Finals v Dragons - Pass
8.2008 Finals v Warriors - Pass
9.2008 GF v Scum - Pass
10. 2009 WCC v Leeds - Pass
11. 2009 Finals v Scum - Fail
12. 2010 Finals v Dragons - Fail
13. 2011 Finals v Cowboys - Pass
14. 2011 Finals v Broncos - Pass
15. 2011 GF v Warriors - Pass

Overall: 9/15 (60%)

Very good by the end but was sitting on 25% after 4 (same as Tooves ).
 
and for the first 5 wins he had the motivation card that almost all the players had never won a comp on his side, Tooves has almost all his players already having won the comp.

As Susan has pointed out before, that makes it a hell of a lot harder.

I'm not saying he is a good coach but cannot complain after less than 2 seasons
 
I would say from Toovey a very good pass mark (say 75%) for his first year and a half.

On one side you would say he inherited a bl&&dy good team, whereas on the other this is the same team that the 'experts' wrote off last year and said this year age would see them fall out of the 8. So he's certainly proving the experts wrong.

And on another positive note he took over in very stressful times and showed his true class and character.

He has also (in conjunction with others) proven how he can identify cast offs from other clubs (horo, Lawrence, symonds etc) and integrate them into his team and show them as quality first graders.

Realistically Tooves needs to be judged over a 5 to 10 year period, but I for one am exceptionally happy he's our coach. Tooves is just Manly through and through.
 
Legend coach = 1. consistent performances ie; Craig Bellamy (over a long time)
2. Taking an average player and turning into something better ie; Justin Horo

Tooves, in my opinion will better Dessie and Bozo


Over and out
 
Think about where the team would be at now if Toovey hadn't stepped up to fill the role when Des walked out on his team, club and fans.
I really hope we win a premiership or five with Tooves but regardless of that him taking over as coach in late 2011 played a huge role in the Manly club staying strong, sticking together and moving on from Des.
Two thumbs up from me for Tooves.
 
Firstly in his first year as first grade coach he got the team to 4th out of 16 teams so that rates a 75%.
Record in big games in 2012
Rd8 vs Dogs (away) Won
Rd15 vs Storm (home) Loss
Rd20 vs Dogs (home) Loss
Rd22 vs Cows (away) Won
Rd23 vs Souths (away) Won
Won our last 6 games straight to take 4th
Final vs Dogs (away lost captain Lyon) Loss could've gone either way
Final vs Cows Won
Final vs Storm Loss

50% in big games last year in his 1st year as a coach. Not bad effort.

2nd Year and with 6 rounds to go we are running 3rd.
Can't really see a reason to criticise at this stage BUT the next couple of months will tell at what level Tooves is really at. We need some big wins against top 4 teams this year. Time to show it. Bring it on!!!!!
 
Tooves is great, but I agree to an extent regarding the Melbourne loss in the finals series last year.

If we had won against the Dogs in the first game of the finals (close loss, nothing in it) I have no doubt we would have progressed to the GF.

Going to Melbourne and losing so badly was diabolical though, and some of that has to lay at the feet of Tooves. Can't remember all of the pre-game switches from the named side which was the normal starting team but there were two or three; including bringing George Rose in.

Having said that in his first season we went to one game short of a GF and that loss as bad as it was, and I consider it one of the worst and embarrassing in the clubs history, Tooves will have learned a lot from it and will be a better coach for it.
 
COMMANDER said:
Going to Melbourne and losing so badly was diabolical though, and some of that has to lay at the feet of Tooves.

We lost 40-12. The exact same score that we lost to Melbourne in the finals of 2009. Some of that has to lay at the feet of Des?
 
Team P W L PD Pts
3 3 0 48 6
3 2 1 45 4
3 2 1 28 4
3 2 1 22 4
3 2 1 15 4
3 2 1 14 4
2 1 1 13 4
3 2 1 10 4
2 1 1 6 4
3 2 1 -3 4
3 1 2 0 2
3 1 2 -5 2
3 1 2 -15 2
3 1 2 -22 2
3 1 2 -36 2
2 0 2 -56 2
3 0 3 -64 0
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